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Post by Tas on Feb 25, 2019 8:31:27 GMT -5
It's 2019, and in an age where you can be whoever you want to be, the Clans hardly mirror that philosophy. We see time and again arcs and ret-cons where cats wanted to be warriors but seemed doomed to the path of the medicine cat, or vice versa. This system has worked for our cat buddies since 2003, but 16 years later is it time for a more modern approach?
Diversifying the Clans could be a decent work-around. Having but two completely separate life options set in front of you from the age of 6 moons seems a little conservative, and pressuring too. We sometimes see exceptions to the "rules" of the Clans (Daisy, Millie) but they are just that - exceptions - in every way. Should roles such as mediator or permanent queen become commonplace in the Clans? Or should our battle cats stick with tradition?
Opinions, go
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Post by Brindlefern on Feb 25, 2019 8:52:58 GMT -5
Tbh Perma-Queens have been a thing for a long time, ala Goldenflower and all. So more popping up like Daisy and Ferncloud aren't really "new" traditions in terms of roles in the clan. They've been there.
My lack of support on the Mediator role mainly stems from how it's basically taking what Medicine Cats already did from first arc. They did mediating on the side when needed and a mainly whole lot more. Back then you could go to a Medicine Cat for some confiding and even advising, and they are like a peace sign or something if you travel with them.
Mediators by themselves on the other hand don't show to have much going for them in terms of place in the clan, what are you supposed to do as one exactly? Just wait until someone gets their fur in a tizzy with another cat? What are you gonna do on the more peaceful days? Sit around doing nothing like Tree does? There was no reason for Leafstar to make the role other than to give his lazy ass a role so that he can have an excuse to stay (This being the same cat that wouldn't give Sol a Warrior rank because he didn't want to pull his weight. *COUGH*). Not only that, but his "Mediating" didn't do jack shit in TRS, cats ignored him entirely when he came to try to calm them down.
Perma-Queens are one thing, but Mediators by themselves that are separate from Medicine Cats who did the same thing, Mediator has shown to be pointless to be there. I don't care for "sticking to traditions", those and rules can change, I care for consistency and balance, if they're gonna change something in the form of ranks/roles, I want there to be a PURPOSE to the role so that it's not useless in regards to a place in the clans compared to the usual two (Three counting perma-Queens).
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Post by Haze on Feb 25, 2019 9:43:53 GMT -5
It's kinda hard to have diversity in what the cats can do in the clan when they are...well cats, and dont have elaborate tools or have a livestock.
Even the tunneling in Windclan was just a variation of a hunting technique but that was too dangerous to keep when the clan was getting enough food in the moors.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 25, 2019 12:50:27 GMT -5
I agree with Brindlefern. Permaqueens have been around and serve a purpose, but the neutral medicine cats are the ones who should be acting as mediators - as they've done before.
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Post by kinkajou on Feb 25, 2019 15:45:29 GMT -5
It would be cool to see new roles that aren't useless but there's not much a cat can do but hunt/fight, heal, and take care of kits
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 16:43:18 GMT -5
Tbh Perma-Queens have been a thing for a long time, ala Goldenflower and all. So more popping up like Daisy and Ferncloud aren't really "new" traditions in terms of roles in the clan. They've been there. My lack of support on the Mediator role mainly stems from how it's basically taking what Medicine Cats already did from first arc. They did mediating on the side when needed and a mainly whole lot more. Back then you could go to a Medicine Cat for some confiding and even advising, and they are like a peace sign or something if you travel with them. Mediators by themselves on the other hand don't show to have much going for them in terms of place in the clan, what are you supposed to do as one exactly? Just wait until someone gets their fur in a tizzy with another cat? What are you gonna do on the more peaceful days? Sit around doing nothing like Tree does? There was no reason for Leafstar to make the role other than to give his lazy ass a role so that he can have an excuse to stay (This being the same cat that wouldn't give Sol a Warrior rank because he didn't want to pull his weight. *COUGH*). Not only that, but his "Mediating" didn't do jack shit in TRS, cats ignored him entirely when he came to try to calm them down. Perma-Queens are one thing, but Mediators by themselves that are separate from Medicine Cats who did the same thing, Mediator has shown to be pointless to be there. I don't care for "sticking to traditions", those and rules can change, I care for consistency and balance, if they're gonna change something in the form of ranks/roles, I want there to be a PURPOSE to the role so that it's not useless in regards to a place in the clans compared to the usual two (Three counting perma-Queens). I argue Medicine cats can't really perform the mediator position. They're already stretched thin with their expected duties: In charge of the Whole Clan's physical health and the sole initiator of Starclan's vague messages. Medicine cat couldn't do well when it comes to social/political issues. If they were expected have Mediators duties on top of that, it's way too much. Considering they're the most isolated Clan members; unable to have a mate/kits, sleeping alone and have a separate routine to everyone else. Also, Medicine cats also struggle to truly understand border skirmishes or prey stealing as they: Have full range of the four territories and never need to hunt/fight. There's nothing in the Medicine cat code talking about mental/social/political reasonabilities. We're seen the training of Leafpool, Jayfeather and Alderheart, and it's only consisted of Herb knowledge, Starclan and basic hunting/fighting skills for emergencies. Even when cats are in shock, Medicine cat still use herbs like Thyme, no therapy skilled used.
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Post by tigersdoroar on Feb 25, 2019 20:45:32 GMT -5
I feel like there's only so much cats can do when they're technically fighting to survive every day of their lives. Like Haze said, they're cats, and they're portrayed to be wild animals. The only thing animals realistically have time to worry about is survival and reproduction, and it's amazing that the clans would even have as much structure as they already do. Cats either provide for their clan or they're essentially useless, and that's all there is to it. Say a cat wanted to become an artist and paint the history of the forest on the walls of the tunnels. That would be cool and all, but that mouth would essentially be wasting food that could be going to queens, kits, and elders. The clans don't mirror humans because they're not humans.
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Post by Smokyyy on Feb 25, 2019 23:08:32 GMT -5
While I do believe that Permanent queens and mediators are great, I believe the whole system just works as it is. I believe being a warrior, or a med cat is just common but on a couple occasions there is a mediator(s) or more permanent queens. For mediators, there could, for example be more usage of them when there’s per say, a tough, overly brash, or stubborn leader. They would be more of use there, but for everyday life, Idk. 😐
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Post by CinderpeltFan on Feb 26, 2019 10:17:35 GMT -5
Interesting point, but I think feral cats are unlikely to change their ways. It really depends on how much you want to anthropomorphise them.
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Post by wolfcry32 on Feb 26, 2019 16:08:12 GMT -5
I think the system really is fine as is, and permanent queens- while not a named role- are a path cats can choose to live in addition to warrior and medicine cat. They don't seem to be really exceptions- all the Clans have them. I do wish there was some sort of elevated status for senior warriors and elders that could be like mediating, such as being on a council that discusses squabbles between clans or Warrior Code issues (like a supreme court almost??). This could be another added check to make sure a leader's power doesn't end up destroying a Clan, and matters such as forbidden kits with parents from two different clans could be settled in this council with cats from all four Clans (However matters like a medicine cat having kits with a warrior within their own Clan would mostly be up to leader discretion). I’ve always loved the idea of having a council with the Clans. It takes some pressure off of the leader, but like in your situation, it would be something the older cats can partake in. Especially when it comes to dealing with a young leader.
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Post by Seven on Feb 26, 2019 20:51:33 GMT -5
more clan roles maybe?
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Post by Protractor on Feb 27, 2019 0:51:56 GMT -5
Maybe have it sorta like the tribe,have a certain set focus on hunting or fighting.But still get a little bit of training in the other one.
But on a side note:Ferncloud shouldn't have become perma-queen.She was perfectly capable of hunting and fighting and basically just wanted to be first to eat(Not saying that was her main reason)But I mean,COME ON FERN!At least Daisy had a reason
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Post by Brindlefern on Feb 27, 2019 0:57:24 GMT -5
But on a side note:Ferncloud shouldn't have become perma-queen.She was perfectly capable of hunting and fighting and basically just wanted to be first to eat(Not saying that was her main reason)But I mean,COME ON FERN!At least Daisy had a reason I don't see why Ferncloud being a Perma-Queen is all that bad. She chose to be one anyways. "She basically just wanted to be first to eat." Um... nO??? Wtf man where did you even get that, there's NOTHING stating that?? She probably just loved kits so damn much and loved raising them and decided "You know what? I wanna stay in the nursery and help raise ALL the babies." That can be a good reason to wanna stay as one as any. Yet nobody ever complained about Goldenflower being a Perma-Queen either, they stan her being one, so to complain about Ferncloud being one is pointless and stupid. Especially with the fact that her being a Perma-Queen was complained about so much, the fanbase itself was pretty much the sole reason she was killed. Which is bullSHIT.
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Post by Protractor on Feb 27, 2019 1:19:56 GMT -5
I'm not saing she was forced into it,I'm just saying I don't like it.I didn't know Goldenflower was a perma-queen.And second,he whole"Want to eat first"thing was meant to be a joke.And don't go blaming me for what the fanbase did cause this if older than me and I only read The Last Hope in December 2018.
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Post by wolfcry32 on Feb 27, 2019 7:31:20 GMT -5
Maybe have it sorta like the tribe,have a certain set focus on hunting or fighting.But still get a little bit of training in the other one. But on a side note:Ferncloud shouldn't have become perma-queen.She was perfectly capable of hunting and fighting and basically just wanted to be first to eat(Not saying that was her main reason)But I mean,COME ON FERN!At least Daisy had a reason Just because she’s capable of fighting and hunting doesn’t mean she’s obligated to do it. It’s like women who become stay at home mothers when they can certainly go out and do other things; that’s what they want to do is all. Whether or not someone else likes the decision doesn’t matter. I really don’t think Daisy’s reason is any better than hers either.
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Feb 27, 2019 21:52:35 GMT -5
First, when you said Diversity in the clans this wasn't what I thought you meant, but it is interesting. Only thing is there's a limit to what they can do. Other than be a warrior or a medicine cat (and that path isn't open to every cat, you're supposed to be called to the position but ThunderClan has made it a habit of forcing cats into it), and honestly perma-queen isn't really a position as much as it happens when a she cat finds her needs are more useful as a midwife.
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Post by Tas on Mar 4, 2019 12:42:11 GMT -5
Personally I think Clans are fine where they are, and even mediators are a stretch. If a she-cat is going to become a perma-queen I think she'd better have a good reason.
(all the perma-queens in the series have had good reasons)
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