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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 18, 2019 8:59:44 GMT -5
Back in the old forest, we saw the forces of Lionclan taking on Bloodclan head to head without wavering despite how fearsome they were and that there were more of them. No one was running away or anything like that, they just went all in. Meanwhile, in the present day, the fact that the Kin repulsed all three clans attacking makes those glory days seem like they were a thousand years ago. Seriously, what happened to the clans that they fell so low? The clans outnumbered the Kin AT LEAST three to one when the battle began, because Shadowclan was split down both sides and the Kin was small to begin with. Even with Onestar fleeing shortly(and his warriors should still have had time to cause damage before then), Thunderclan and Riverclan are among the most bloated of clans and should still have more cats available. Despite this, they get sent packing and the idea of taking on the Kin again is not even considered.
Personally I blame Bramblestar for being worth nothing compared to Firestar.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 11:09:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 11:28:06 GMT -5
Pretty much that ^
But I agree that was pretty pathetic. Even if the kin were being abnormally vicious cause they didnโt follow the code and yada yada brute numbers nullify any viciousness pretty quickly.
Though to be fair this isnโt the first time the authors have ignored the reality of the series just to push their plot agenda. Even though they acknowledge back in Eclipse that the alegiences werenโt complete for the other clans... it was still insane how many cats they made it feel like WindClan had- to the point that not only were ThunderClan well-matched but completely outnumbered even before RiverClan came. I can acknowledge that maybe 3 or 4 more WindClan cats were there in the allegiances... but they made it seem like there at least a half a dozen more based on how panicked ThunderClan was. AND on top of that Crowfeather was heading over with like 3 or 4 fresh new warriors who had apparently never stepped over the border yet... yeah no. Bull crap- and it became clearer when they constantly had to write in โanother nameless WindClan cat sprang from the bushesโ, when even the ShadowClan vs ThunderClan at the campground named pretty much everyone.
I honestly think sometimes they just decided to create situations a certain way just for the plot even though logically it just doesnโt make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 11:44:10 GMT -5
Maybe Needlepaw and the Other apprentices kind of had a point about the Clans only wanting peace.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 18, 2019 13:34:03 GMT -5
Maybe Needlepaw and the Other apprentices kind of had a point about the Clans only wanting peace. Yeah, but only wanting peace makes a lot of sense after they just fought a bunch of evil, dead cats who wanted to destroy all of them. Peace is better than constant fighting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 13:45:34 GMT -5
Maybe Needlepaw and the Other apprentices kind of had a point about the Clans only wanting peace. Yeah, but only wanting peace makes a lot of sense after they just fought a bunch of evil, dead cats who wanted to destroy all of them. Peace is better than constant fighting. They're two extremes. The modern Clans are becoming complete pushes over while the Kin is too violent. The best system probably lies in the middle.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 18, 2019 13:53:54 GMT -5
Liking peace is good. Needing a 4 to 1 advantage AND sneaky tactics to win against a pack of rogues is something else.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Feb 18, 2019 14:20:52 GMT -5
Onestar fled because Darktail told him he was going to go to the Dark Forest if he killed his own son, RiverClan retreated because Mistystar had lost a life, and most of ShadowClan were on Darktail's side, which is why Rowanstar or his family didn't want to attack them.
It's not necessarily that the cats were cowardly, it's just that Darktail was basically using a "divide and conquer" tactic by going after the leaders. It also didn't help that they had been seen by a patrol, thus ruining a surprise attack. The exact number of cats from Darktail's group also isn't known, especially since SS reveals he had been recruiting more rogues.
That, and like it's already been said, the Clans have probably softened up a bit since the Great Battle. Not a bad thing by any means, but that could probably be a reason why the battle turned out the way it did.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 18, 2019 14:28:37 GMT -5
Onestar fled because Darktail told him he was going to go to the Dark Forest if he killed his own son, RiverClan retreated because Mistystar had lost a life, and most of ShadowClan were on Darktail's side, which is why Rowanstar or his family didn't want to attack them. It's not necessarily that the cats were cowardly, it's just that Darktail was basically using a "divide and conquer" tactic by going after the leaders. It also didn't help that they had been seen by a patrol, thus ruining a surprise attack. The exact number of cats from Darktail's group also isn't known, especially since SS reveals he had been recruiting more rogues. That, and like it's already been said, the Clans have probably softened up a bit since the Great Battle. Not a bad thing by any means, but that could probably be a reason why the battle turned out the way it did. Onestar fled after a while, Windclan was still fighting before that and should have inflicted damage. Riverclan retreating in such a shameful way doesn't exactly scream courage either. Compare to the Lionclan battle where Scourge smashes Firestar's head open and the clans don't give an inch. Shadowclan was basically a non-factor since neither wanted to attack very much. With regards to Darktail's numbers, there really can't have been that many. The majority of his host was formed by Shadowclan but we know for a fact that their morale was weak at best. The rogues who were true blue willing to fight should be considerably less than a single clan.
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Post by halogen on Feb 18, 2019 15:41:04 GMT -5
The whole set up with the kin is ridiculous and based on bad writing (same goes for the great battle for that matter), but its certainly possible for a group of people to act very brave in one situation and defeat superior numbers and fall apart in another.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 18, 2019 16:22:07 GMT -5
The whole set up with the kin is ridiculous and based on bad writing (same goes for the great battle for that matter), but its certainly possible for a group of people to act very brave in one situation and defeat superior numbers and fall apart in another. It is very, very rare for a force with such a gigantic advantage as 3-2:1 to lose to an undisciplined rabble when no tactics are involved beyond "run at each other yowling and bite each other". Maybe if the Kin exploited defensive terrain or stood together so that they could magnify the effect of their number, but that's not the case, it's just a straight drunken brawl like most Warriors battles and in such a case numbers do count.
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