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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 5:56:39 GMT -5
Why do some fans forgive Breezepelt and are willing to give him a second chance, despite the fact that he tried to kill his own family and a pregnant queen, but not Needletail?
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Post by Haze on Feb 18, 2019 6:15:48 GMT -5
Because its kinda hard for a cat that is dead to have a second chance.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 18, 2019 6:35:19 GMT -5
Well they're honestly two very different characters tbh...
Needletail was a radical teenager who revolted against a system and alligned with another one, thinking it was the better and more efficient way to live. Thinking that it'll make her stronger and the system would improve under a bette ruler, compared to the previous one. She thought that her clan would return back to glory that it once was.
With that being said, this is honestly similar to cats that followed Tigerstar. Tigerstar didn't want to destroy the clans, but he did want power, and he also wanted to rule the clans as a powerful leader. He led many to believe that this was the best way to go about things. Bringing int a new system, that is somewhat similar to the old one, to return the clans to it's former but improved glory.
On the other hand, Breezepelt was a mislead teenager who was consumed by his hatred for his neglectful family, thus turning to the wrong crowd. It's similar to Needletail, yes, but whereas her objective was to make the clans stronger for a more suitable lifestyle, Breezepelt's objective was more personal. He wanted to get revenge against his father, and by association, against Leafpool and his half-siblings. The Dark Forest is also shown literally feeding these ideologies into him, during his training sessions, influencing him to do wronger actions later on. At one point he is even about to attack his own clanmate, fighting for the side of the DF if not for Ivypool. His real objective all along was to get revenge, while Needletail's was literally revolution.
Taking down an already existing system and replacing it with one you think is better, would be Needletail. She'd most likely follow a leader like Tigerstar(when he was still alive) or Blackstar.
On the other hand, completely destroying the existing system and annihilating the living cats that pledged to it would be Breezepelt. He'd most like follow cats like Brokenstar and Tigerstar(after he joined the DF).
Blackstar almost abolished the ways of the warrior code in his clan twice, but he was also a strong, and brutal, kinda hypocritical, leader. But he was still respected nonetheless.
Brokenstar was more of a tyrant who wanted power and influenced those to seek vengeance along with darker ideologies, making them believe this is the better solution.
Now when it comes to their redemptions, Breezepelt and Needletail, you can acknowledge their characters as a whole more, from start to finish/current.
Needletail fell in with the wrong crowd willingly, thinking things were better this way. She cared about her clan, and wanted them to feel as "free" as she did. She still held morals too, like how she was angry at Sleekwhisker for being lazy and not helping with hunts. Or later when she takes herbs to the clan cats, against Darktail's orders, betraying them. She also obviously had feelings for Rain, and was in full support of him taking over the group, getting excited when he attacked Darktail, but horrified at him losing, etc. And then upon his death she finally started realizing that the new system she initially supported, wasn't the right way. Also, Darktail himself is quite sly on the tongue, I guess that's why I like him somewhat as a character. He's good at convincing others, manipulative, with a silver tongue. Another thing you need to take into consideration is that Needletail meets Darktail's group when she's still an apprentice, quite a young one too. She didn't earn her name yet, she had given one to herself on her own, as an act of showing she is free from the older system. In the end she died by sacrificing her life to save the only cat she really had left in her life at the time. Her parents were mostly absent from her life, she probably lost familial connections with them after she thought they abandoned her as a kit. Her own best friend had turned on her and was even later willing to help kill her. And her mate, Rain, was brutally murdered by Darktail, a cat she had thought of as a leadership guide. All she had was Violetshine left. Yes, Needletail was manipulative to her, but at the same time, she was no more than a child herself at the time. She at least saw Violetshine's life as more important than her own, enough to help her escape, and dying because of it.
Now with Breezepelt, he already had anger in his heart, his father mostly neglected him during his upbringing. Like Needle, and other members in her clan, he didn't find the connection he needed to find with his own father like he did his mother. There was always an emotional gap between them and their understanding of one another. Which isn't surprising, Crow only became mates with Nightcloud to seem loyal to his clan, and then had a child with her out of that mentality. Breezpelt felt that his father acknowledged and loved his half-siblings more than him, hence his anger toward them. On top of the fact that they go against the warrior code, he's right, the three shouldn't even exist according to clan rules, but that didn't make his actions in attempting to kill them right. However, he felt that in a way, the current system failed him, and his family, like how Needletail thought the system wasn't efficient enough. But whereas she wanted to rebuild and replace it with a new one, Breezepelt wanted it to be completely destroyed. The only cat he seemed to really care about was Heathertail, whom one of his half-siblings used to have a thing for, and his mother, who hated his father for using her. Brokenstar took advantage of his anger, and his situation, manipulating him to believe that he's righteous in a way, that he should be angry, that he should punish these cats for what they've done to him. While Darktail took advantage of Needle's young naivety, Brokenstar took advantage of Breezepelt's grudgeful emotions. He felt not only betrayed by the system that clan cats literally dedicated their lives to, but also by the other cats that surrounded him. This is why when other cats still hadn't forgiven him for what he did in the final battle, he was more angry at them, instead of pleading for their forgiveness, like Squirrel and Leaf were doing. He felt he was in the right, and didn't understand what he did was wrong.It wasn't until his redemption arc, that he started to realize the errors of his ways, and his actions of the past, did he finally begin to grow and improve as a character.
Needletail never got the chance at a proper redemption, at most she died for Violetshine's sake so she could live a happier life, even if that meant without her. Violetshine now has her family back, a mate, and is expecting kits by the lake, she had a place she can truely call home. Something Needletail didn't have. She did move in purgatory for a while, but most likely for unfinished business, honestly I'm still surprised at how she was killed of. On the other hand, Breezepelt had to struggle for his redemption, but personally I don't think one SE is enough to fix all that was build up for almost two arc. But it was a start. And it was a well written SE was was giving very interesting point of views, it even made me change my views on Crowfeather, despite being being a neglectful father.
This was pret long. But basically I can see and understand where both characters are coming from. They may seem simliar on the surface, but both have very different in depth characteristics and developments. Unfortunatly Needle's was cut short, but in the long run her actions gave Violetshine a new life. While Breezpelt is still working on fixing his wrongs from the past, and trying to be a better cat himself.
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Post by Moonblazer on Feb 18, 2019 10:47:51 GMT -5
Because Breezepelt knows he was a brutal jerk and is disliked immensely for it in the books. Needletail acts like she did nothing wrong and still blames Rowanstar for her actions and her help in the destruction of Shadowclan, and is still seen as some kind of friend/ nobody sees the garbage she did.
Also Breezepelt is actually interesting and entertaining to me. If they’re both whiny brats, Needletail is the whinier one in my opinion.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 18, 2019 12:59:57 GMT -5
Yeah Breezepelt actually blamed himself for his actions, and accepted that he was responsible. Needletail is still up in Starclan blaming Rowanstar, sooo.... Once she has some self-reflection and realize most of it's her fault, we can talk
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 13:43:05 GMT -5
Needletail is a lot more forgivable then Breezepelt for me.
Needletail genuinely thought the Kin was a better way of life for herself and many others. She did it for the benefit (somewhat at least) of others. By the time she realised it wasn't all it made out to be, it was too late. Fighting back was incredibly difficult, as it was a matter of life and death, not just for herself but the Clan prisoners as well. Added, this was also a mistake she made as an apprentice.
While Breezepelt was a fully grown adult/warrior. His actions were far more selfish. Even though he only had a select few targets he truly cared about, he was willing to kill anyone just for kicks. Like a pregnant Poppyfrost, who no more than an innocent bystander/stranger to Breezepelt. Or him wanting death upon all the Clans, including attacking a totally random Clanmate himself. Breezpelt put his petty/personal revenge over the lives of literally everyone.
I can't stand characters like that. Who kill wastefully/needlessly. Not for some granter purpose/goal, but extremely minor/petty reasons. This is why I dislike Ashfur so much. Who was willing to endanger his Whole Clan purely because he doesn't care. He valued hurting a signal innocent cat above all his clanmates, just like Breezepelt.
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