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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Feb 10, 2019 18:50:44 GMT -5
So I was thinking about this because with cats like Tigerstar and Brokenstar, they justified them receiving nine lives simply by saying they had potential and that it's not a choice that StarClan makes; they give the new leader nine lives because that's how it works, the clans decide to give cats nine lives. But since StarClan now plays an active role in the living clans I think it's fair to ask if that should change.
Personally I feel like they should at least be allowed to refuse a cat nine lives. For example if I recall Brokenstar killed his father so he could become clan leader and still got his lives. Tigerstar killed Redtail, caused Cinderpelt to be crippled and attempted to kill Bluestar so he could become leader of TC, but when he went to SC he still got his nine lives. Let's say Mudclaw succeeded in overthrowing Onewhisker- would he have been granted nine lives even though Tallstar didn't want him to be the next leader? Would they have stopped Hawkfrost from becoming Hawkstar if Mistyfoot hadn't returned? I can see why they shouldn't be allowed to refuse a cat lives because it then becomes them choosing a clan leader, but what do you guys think? Should StarClan refuse to give a cat they deem "unworthy" (who decides?) nine lives or should they abide by the decision of the clans, even when they know it isn't in their best interest?
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Post by mocatstar on Feb 10, 2019 19:09:13 GMT -5
I've always hated the idea of each individual cats in Starclan. I like them more as a force, not as a separate clan in the stars but a force made up of cat ghosts. So, the idea of refusing a cat's nine lives is less of a certain's cat's feud with the next leader but if StarClan see's that the leader can lead the clan right.
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Feb 10, 2019 19:27:59 GMT -5
mocatstar right, that's what I was thinking. It wouldn't be because you didn't like someone but because they could see that the cat wouldn't be a good leader- meaning that they wouldn't be good for their clan or they've committed crimes that cause them not to be eligible like killing a cat to become leader.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 23:22:16 GMT -5
Maybe the previous leader decides who is worthy?
I mean think about it. In the case of Brokenstar, yes he killed Raggedstar but we never actually got to see how Ragged felt about it. From birth, Ragged always planned on Brokenstar being his successor, he spoiled his kit and promoted him to deputy way too early. Honestly, after Brokenstar killed him I wouldn't be surprised if that proved to Raggedstar that Broken is strong and worthy of being leader. After all, Raggedstar did his fair share of unnecessary killing (Hal). He might have thought "welp. I met my match. my son beat me and he's going to be a strong leader now." It would also make sense in Nightstar's case as well. Why else would anyone refuse to give him lives? Brokenstar still had one life left, it wouldn't surprise me if Raggedstar was petty enough to refuse Nightstar on the grounds that Brokenstar was still alive and hadn't formally given up his leadership. He may also have seen Nightstar as too old and weak to be leader.
Once Nightstar dies, he becomes the one with the authority to "choose", and he grants Tigerclaw his lives because he knows how weak his Clan is and that ShadowClan needs a strong leader, regardless of past transgressions. Perhaps he thought that was the only way ShadowClan could survive, after all they were a hot mess until Tiger came around and shaped them up. He could have seen that and been hopeful for a turnaround.
IDK, its just an idea. Perhaps I'm way off the mark but I think it would be somewhat of a cool concept.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 11, 2019 17:40:33 GMT -5
Maybe the previous leader decides who is worthy? I mean think about it. In the case of Brokenstar, yes he killed Raggedstar but we never actually got to see how Ragged felt about it. From birth, Ragged always planned on Brokenstar being his successor, he spoiled his kit and promoted him to deputy way too early. Honestly, after Brokenstar killed him I wouldn't be surprised if that proved to Raggedstar that Broken is strong and worthy of being leader. After all, Raggedstar did his fair share of unnecessary killing (Hal). He might have thought "welp. I met my match. my son beat me and he's going to be a strong leader now." It would also make sense in Nightstar's case as well. Why else would anyone refuse to give him lives? Brokenstar still had one life left, it wouldn't surprise me if Raggedstar was petty enough to refuse Nightstar on the grounds that Brokenstar was still alive and hadn't formally given up his leadership. He may also have seen Nightstar as too old and weak to be leader. Once Nightstar dies, he becomes the one with the authority to "choose", and he grants Tigerclaw his lives because he knows how weak his Clan is and that ShadowClan needs a strong leader, regardless of past transgressions. Perhaps he thought that was the only way ShadowClan could survive, after all they were a hot mess until Tiger came around and shaped them up. He could have seen that and been hopeful for a turnaround. IDK, its just an idea. Perhaps I'm way off the mark but I think it would be somewhat of a cool concept. I don't think this is the case just for the reason that Raggedstar realized he'd made a monster before he died and tried to talk to Yellowfang about what they should do about it
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Feb 11, 2019 18:34:39 GMT -5
Well I guess the leader decides anyway because they choose the deputy and typically that cat becomes the next leader. But then you have cases like Tallstar where on his death bed appointed Onewhisker as leader even though Mudclaw was the deputy, and Bluestar where she didn't know all of Tigerstar's plans- what if he'd succeeded in killing her and becoming leader? He would be the rightful leader of TC because he was the deputy and he overthrew her even though he wasn't the right leader for TC.
With Brokenstar though he received his nine lives even though he killed his father so either his father approved or didn't have a say. But if he did I don't think he would cosign on his leadership- no one is that blind. Nightstar I believe never received any of his lives because the rule is you can't have "two" leaders- so as long as Brokenstar lived he couldn't get his lives. But their rule is that if the current leader leaves without renouncing their lives the new leader gets the old leader's current lives reducted, so like with Sunstar he got 8 lives because Pinestar didn't renounce his lives. I'm pretty sure at that point Brokenstar only had 1-2 lives left so i don't know why Nightstar didn't just get 7-8 lives.
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