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Post by scint on Jan 2, 2019 15:03:29 GMT -5
What do you think about him? I for one think he and his actions were stupid, but apparently not many seem to think the same. I legit can find flaws within his defence, especially the "imagine you were stuck in school for-". Yeah, that one can in some cases be used against him if you look hard enough. But anyways, what do you all think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 15:05:46 GMT -5
Well, he was "stupid" because he was still learning and growing. I don't think his behavior was at fault, and I don't blame Bluestar either. That being said, I never cared for him.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jan 2, 2019 15:30:53 GMT -5
It was really stupid for him to run for the dogs, anyone with a lick of sense would know not to take on a full pack of dogs alone (Yes he had Brightpaw with him but that didn't help did it? One dog maybe, but not a whole pack of big hounds) but at the same time, I understand his frustration. Especially that salt in the wound of Bluestar making Cloudtail a warrior before him because of the beliefs thing. That ticked me.
But he's just "meh" for me otherwise. I never thought of him much.
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Post by scint on Jan 2, 2019 15:36:52 GMT -5
It was really stupid for him to run for the dogs, anyone with a lick of sense would know not to take on a full pack of dogs alone (Yes he had Brightpaw with him but that didn't help did it? One dog maybe, but not a whole pack of big hounds) but at the same time, I understand his frustration. Especially that salt in the wound of Bluestar making Cloudtail a warrior before him because of the beliefs thing. That ticked me. But he's just "meh" for me otherwise. I never thought of him much. Yeah, I've seen some people defend him heading for the dogs by saying that he didn't know what the creatures were. Even if it's true, it was still stupid of him to go fight dangerous creatures that can kill you in the first place. The only time I felt sympathy for him was when Cloudtail was made a warrior because of his beliefs. But Swiftpaw did show he was immature by going to fight those dangerous creatures because he didn't receive his name. To me, being a warrior is about skill, maturity, and patience. And to me Swiftpaw only had skill. I dislike Swiftpaw, but he's a really passionate topic for me because so many people that I've debated with him on disregard his stupid actions and call them brave when they really aren't.
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Bisexual
신성하지 않은 모든 것의 어머니
なんで私
Kpop isn't a choice, it's a lifestyle
Pronouns: She/Her/Demon Mom
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Post by なんで私 on Jan 2, 2019 15:57:05 GMT -5
Honestly, Swiftpaw was mostly at fault but Bluestar did give Cloudtail his warrior name just because he is an atheist. That's like a teacher giving one student an A+ on a report they did terribly on just because they're an atheist and giving another student a D- on the same report they did well just because they're religious.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 2, 2019 15:59:36 GMT -5
I could see him actually becoming deputy/leader one day if he lived. Not having a mate either, but a single epic pringle. He’d be leader now instead of Bramblestar.
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Bisexual
신성하지 않은 모든 것의 어머니
なんで私
Kpop isn't a choice, it's a lifestyle
Pronouns: She/Her/Demon Mom
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Post by なんで私 on Jan 2, 2019 16:09:23 GMT -5
I could see him actually becoming deputy/leader one day if he lived. Not having a mate either, but a single epic pringle. He’d be leader now instead of Bramblestar. That would be beautiful!
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Post by Owlmoon on Jan 2, 2019 16:22:43 GMT -5
I don't really care for him in the least, tbh.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jan 2, 2019 16:32:18 GMT -5
i've seen a couple people say they wish he survived the attack instead of brightheart, and i don't really understand that Wtff? That's honestly really messed up. ://
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 16:39:43 GMT -5
I really just don't care about him. Apart from having a memorable death, he's just another background character. So really, that death could of been given to anyone and would probably have the same effect. Even then, I still don't understand how his death is special in the first place considering so many characters have died due other animal attacks: Willowpelt, Sunstar (1 life), Rainflower, Foxheart etc. He's very overrated, treated as this hero who sacrificed his life for Brightpaw, when he was one who actually put them in danger in the first place.
As Swiftpaw's recklessness, his age can't be used as an excuse because if Bluestar were sane, he would of been made a warrior long ago - He was fully grown by that point. Swiftpaw was first seen as an apprentice in Fire and Ice, while Cloudpaw was appointed in Forst of secrets. So if Cloudtail could become a warrior before Swiftpaw, he was more then old enough to know what he was doing.
Jumping to the topic of ships: SwiftpawXBrightpaw kind of annoys me. Or at least when people say they want Brightheart to chose him over Cloudtail in Starclan. Just because cats of the opposite sex go on one dangerous mission together, doesn't mean they're in love. At most, it's a childhood crush and not even that's confirmed. And just like FirestarxSpottedleaf, fans want characters to leave their life-long parents they've had children with, for a cat that died early in their lives and they only had a crush on.
The slight interesting detail about Swiftpaw is that he's Goldenflower's son. However, it's never relevant to the books, only a passing mention, not even the smallest of characters interactions. The good thing he's for, is he has good potential for Evil AUs (Because I'm into that) as the unexpected 'evil son' of Tigerstar. Not his biological one but his step-son.
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Post by kinkajou on Jan 2, 2019 17:25:07 GMT -5
I like him. It was dumb to go after the dogs but they didn't know what they were up against, as far as they knew at the time it was just one dog (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) and they couldn't know that these dogs were so much bigger and stronger and more vicious than your average dog, so I don't blame him and Brightpaw for trying to prove themselves in that way, after all they were warrior aged and two warriors have been able to fight off dogs themselves before
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Lesbian
Owl
always writing, never finishing
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Post by Owl on Jan 2, 2019 19:08:05 GMT -5
Jumping to the topic of ships: SwiftpawXBrightpaw kind of annoys me. Or at least when people say they want Brightheart to chose him over Cloudtail in Starclan. Just because cats of the opposite sex go on one dangerous mission together, doesn't mean they're in love. At most, it's a childhood crush and not even that's confirmed. And just like FirestarxSpottedleaf, fans want characters to leave their life-long parents they've had children with, for a cat that died early in their lives and they only had a crush on. this. i see people say stuff like "i wish brightheart hadn't chosen cloudtail, poor swiftpaw.." but i can't recall a single time it seemed like swiftpaw had feelings for brightpaw. it has been a while since i reread a dangerous path, but i'm not sure where that came from
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 19:29:03 GMT -5
Jumping to the topic of ships: SwiftpawXBrightpaw kind of annoys me. Or at least when people say they want Brightheart to chose him over Cloudtail in Starclan. Just because cats of the opposite sex go on one dangerous mission together, doesn't mean they're in love. At most, it's a childhood crush and not even that's confirmed. And just like FirestarxSpottedleaf, fans want characters to leave their life-long parents they've had children with, for a cat that died early in their lives and they only had a crush on. this. i see people say stuff like "i wish brightheart hadn't chosen cloudtail, poor swiftpaw.." but i can't recall a single time it seemed like swiftpaw had feelings for brightpaw. it has been a while since i reread a dangerous path, but i'm not sure where that came from It's probably because they're just a boy and girl who did something dangerous together. People like the idea of a heroic Swiftpaw saving Brightpaw, his damsel in distress. If it were two toms or she-cats, it probably wouldn't even be a ship or at least not dearly as popular.
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Post by scint on Jan 2, 2019 19:43:18 GMT -5
this. i see people say stuff like "i wish brightheart hadn't chosen cloudtail, poor swiftpaw.." but i can't recall a single time it seemed like swiftpaw had feelings for brightpaw. it has been a while since i reread a dangerous path, but i'm not sure where that came from It's probably because they're just a boy and girl who did something dangerous together. People like the idea of a heroic Swiftpaw saving Brightpaw, his damsel in distress. If it were two toms or she-cats, it probably wouldn't even be a ship or at least not dearly as popular. Probably where it stemmed from. It's like a male and female friendship just can't exist because everything has to involve romance. :/
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Post by kinkajou on Jan 2, 2019 20:05:50 GMT -5
Jumping to the topic of ships: SwiftpawXBrightpaw kind of annoys me. Or at least when people say they want Brightheart to chose him over Cloudtail in Starclan. Just because cats of the opposite sex go on one dangerous mission together, doesn't mean they're in love. At most, it's a childhood crush and not even that's confirmed. And just like FirestarxSpottedleaf, fans want characters to leave their life-long parents they've had children with, for a cat that died early in their lives and they only had a crush on. this. i see people say stuff like "i wish brightheart hadn't chosen cloudtail, poor swiftpaw.." but i can't recall a single time it seemed like swiftpaw had feelings for brightpaw. it has been a while since i reread a dangerous path, but i'm not sure where that came from Ye and Brightpaw had shown feelings for Cloudpaw/tail by the time she and Swiftpaw went to fight the dogs : p
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Post by halogen on Jan 3, 2019 11:51:20 GMT -5
Yeah, he was very stupid, though he still didn't deserve to die, and when he realized he messed up he did fight until the end like a warrior to protect Brightpaw. I can understand why he was frustrated with Bluestar being as unreasonable as she was. It's supposed to be a tragic story where Swiftpaw really messed up, for very understandable but still wrong reasons, but didn't deserve what happened to him.
Though Swiftpaw was always recklessly stupid, not just then - he was also the one who gave away Brokenstar being imprisoned at the gathering and so started a war between his Clan and ShadowClan/WindClan.
It's odd though how many people criticize Swiftpaw for doing something so reckless to be a warrior to the point of not even feeling bad that he dies when no one criticizes Fallen Leaves for that and everyone thinks his death is tragic, though, even though Swiftpaw had a lot more reason to want to do anything to be a warrior.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 11:56:47 GMT -5
Yeah, he was very stupid, though he still didn't deserve to die, and when he realized he messed up he did fight until the end like a warrior to protect Brightpaw. I can understand why he was frustrated with Bluestar being as unreasonable as she was. It's supposed to be a tragic story where Swiftpaw really messed up, for very understandable but still wrong reasons, but didn't deserve what happened to him. Though Swiftpaw was always recklessly stupid, not just then - he was also the one who gave away Brokenstar being imprisoned at the gathering and so started a war between his Clan and ShadowClan/WindClan. It's odd though how many people criticize Swiftpaw for doing something so reckless to be a warrior to the point of not even feeling bad that he dies when no one criticizes Fallen Leaves for that and everyone thinks his death is tragic, though, even though Swiftpaw had a lot more reason to want to do anything to be a warrior. But Fallen Leaves going down into the tunnels isn't him going against orders and trying to show off. He was meant to do it. That's how the Ancients proform their equivalent of a "warrior ceremony". All young cats must do it to turn from Softpaws to Sharpclaws.
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Post by halogen on Jan 3, 2019 14:43:12 GMT -5
Yeah, he was very stupid, though he still didn't deserve to die, and when he realized he messed up he did fight until the end like a warrior to protect Brightpaw. I can understand why he was frustrated with Bluestar being as unreasonable as she was. It's supposed to be a tragic story where Swiftpaw really messed up, for very understandable but still wrong reasons, but didn't deserve what happened to him. Though Swiftpaw was always recklessly stupid, not just then - he was also the one who gave away Brokenstar being imprisoned at the gathering and so started a war between his Clan and ShadowClan/WindClan. It's odd though how many people criticize Swiftpaw for doing something so reckless to be a warrior to the point of not even feeling bad that he dies when no one criticizes Fallen Leaves for that and everyone thinks his death is tragic, though, even though Swiftpaw had a lot more reason to want to do anything to be a warrior. But Fallen Leaves going down into the tunnels isn't him going against orders and trying to show off. He was meant to do it. That's how the Ancients proform their equivalent of a "warrior ceremony". All young cats must do it to turn from Softpaws to Sharpclaws. But he chose to go into the tunnels on a particularly dangerous day, even though everyone warned him that it was dangerous, just because he was impatient to be a warrior.
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Post by halogen on Jan 3, 2019 14:44:37 GMT -5
Sharpclaw, not warrior, I mean (this computer isn't letting me edit)
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