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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 13:56:30 GMT -5
I never understood why people get mad that once a strong character gets a mate they get mad about it. You can still be strong even with a mate. For example:
Brambleclaw respects Squirrelflight's independence. He knows she can fight her own battles and take care of herself
Ivypool takes care of herself while her mate watches her kits. Fernsong seems to respect her so far and there's nothing wrong with wanting his comfort now and then for support
Then there's Silverstream, standing up for herself and won't take shit from others
Having a mate doesn't "ruin" the character and it's foolish people seem to think that. You can be strong and still take a mate. It just means you have more room in your heart for love and your mate won't have to worry about you . It's healthy and unique, imo.
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Bisexual
Fawnwing
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Tree is good, you guys are just mean
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Post by Fawnwing on Dec 29, 2018 15:21:36 GMT -5
I never understood why people get mad that once a strong character gets a mate they get mad about it. You can still be strong even with a mate. For example: Brambleclaw respects Squirrelflight's independence. He knows she can fight her own battles and take care of herself Ivypool takes care of herself while her mate watches her kits. Fernsong seems to respect her so far and there's nothing wrong with wanting his comfort now and then for support Then there's Silverstream, standing up for herself and won't take shit from others Having a mate doesn't "ruin" the character and it's foolish people seem to think that. You can be strong and still take a mate. It just means you have more room in your heart for love and your mate won't have to worry about you . It's healthy and unique, imo. I totally agree, it confused me a bit too on this subject.
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Post by Haze on Dec 29, 2018 15:50:15 GMT -5
I only heard that about Dovewing, but she always showed interest in having a love life and if it was not for the prophecy she would have gone to Shadowclan way earlier, but anyway back to the topic, if a cat that was determined to have her kits alone if needed and making a trip alone to the big city while pregnant is not strong and independent then I don't know what those words mean and look that for the most part my view of Dovewing is usually a slightly negative one.
What I find hilarious is that this is only used in she-cats when every tom protagonist in this series half of their arc was going after a love interest when they were PoV.
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Post by kinkajou on Dec 29, 2018 15:52:20 GMT -5
Ye implying that you can't be strong/independent and have kids is not a good message
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Dec 29, 2018 16:10:32 GMT -5
It's less about the she-cats becoming a mother and more about how in alot of stories, sometimes women tend to lose alot of their personality after having a child. The same can be said for some cats in this series, apparently. Basically it just comes down to inconsistent writing. And then there's just society in general and this dislike for anything feminine (that I've noticed at least).
That said, I myself don't have a problem with it so long as the writing is consistent, but even then I wish for there to be more single characters. Or at least couples who are perfectly content without children.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 17:47:21 GMT -5
Honestly I don't understand what people are talking about, because literally every single Main character has a mate or love interest. Even Jayfeather and Hollyleaf had Half Moon and Fallen Leaves (What is with this family and ghost romance? First their Grandfather with Spottedleaf.)
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 30, 2018 15:20:11 GMT -5
I wonder when people will realize that a character can still be independent but also still in a relationship, lol. Personally, my problem lays more toward how romances ruin certain characters, examples being that atrocious BumbleDoveTiger love triangle. Imo, Dove should have stayed single after that whole mess, to be honest. But in the end, it just got worse and spiraled into a territory, there was no returning from, and now she's a trophy wife in ShadowClan. *sighs*
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Post by Darkfang ☾ on Dec 31, 2018 10:43:37 GMT -5
random but i always felt like this stemmed from female readers who idolised these characters and who were single themselves (mostly due to being a young age group who read warriors). giving them mates suddenly made them no longer relatable. i know when i was a teenager i was more like “i don’t need no man”. strong single female characters will make single female readers feel happy and empowered. sounds deep but reading is a form of escapism and i always find it more engrossing when i relate to certain characters.
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Post by Splashstorm01 on Dec 31, 2018 12:30:48 GMT -5
And then there's just society in general and this dislike for anything feminine (that I've noticed at least). This is going off on a tangent, but I'm so glad it's not just me that thinks this! I've noticed that a lot of writers seem to interpret "strong female character" to mean a badass hard-case who acts in a stereotypically masculine way, rather than just a female character who is interesting and three-dimensional. I'd say this avoidance of femininity is arguably sexist in and of itself. I don't see why all women in fiction should be "strong and independent" - why can't there be a mixture of different personalities like in real life? Personally I relate to drippy female characters like Dora Spenlow from David Copperfield much more...! It's especially irritating when female characters are criticised for being weak or compliant, when they actually have a good reason in the story for being that way - for example, Bleak House's Esther Summerson is often criticised for being deferential and pathetically grateful for small things, when the reason she's like that is because she spent her whole childhood being told her existence was a disgrace and being emotionally abused.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 15:14:27 GMT -5
random but i always felt like this stemmed from female readers who idolised these characters and who were single themselves (mostly due to being a young age group who read warriors). giving them mates suddenly made them no longer relatable. i know when i was a teenager i was more like “i don’t need no man”. strong single female characters will make single female readers feel happy and empowered. sounds deep but reading is a form of escapism and i always find it more engrossing when i relate to certain characters. Yeah that’s what I thought as well. I mean I never related to her much myself in the first place but it’s obvious so many people do in more ways than one- and so as readers- who are mostly single- I can totally see people upset that their awesome relatable character just isn’t relatable anymore- or at least not as much. And I can understand if it’s a kick in the stomach as a fan.
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Post by halogen on Dec 31, 2018 16:16:13 GMT -5
random but i always felt like this stemmed from female readers who idolised these characters and who were single themselves (mostly due to being a young age group who read warriors). giving them mates suddenly made them no longer relatable. i know when i was a teenager i was more like “i don’t need no man”. strong single female characters will make single female readers feel happy and empowered. sounds deep but reading is a form of escapism and i always find it more engrossing when i relate to certain characters. Yeah that’s what I thought as well. I mean I never related to her much myself in the first place but it’s obvious so many people do in more ways than one- and so as readers- who are mostly single- I can totally see people upset that their awesome relatable character just isn’t relatable anymore- or at least not as much. And I can understand if it’s a kick in the stomach as a fan. I definitely understand this, I've never been interested in romance myself (and no, I'm not some hard case stereotypically masculine character in real life, I am definitely interested in platonic relationships), and it can be frustrated when not just most characters but every character has a romance, it doesn't stop me from relating to them at all but the percentage of main characters in series like warrior cats who end up in a romantic relationship is probably quite a bit larger than the already very large percentage of real life people, and it can feel like it's saying that people aren't worth writing about or being the heroes of their own stories if they don't have a romantic relationship, they just have to be designated as side characters. This for me applies to male characters as well as female - I would honestly be fine if say 80% of Warriors protagonists ended up in a romance, but having 100% of them have a romance, with no protagonist ever being left without one even if the romance they "have" to write in is contrived and OOC, it gets frustrating for the reasons I described.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 16:55:58 GMT -5
Yeah that’s what I thought as well. I mean I never related to her much myself in the first place but it’s obvious so many people do in more ways than one- and so as readers- who are mostly single- I can totally see people upset that their awesome relatable character just isn’t relatable anymore- or at least not as much. And I can understand if it’s a kick in the stomach as a fan. I definitely understand this, I've never been interested in romance myself (and no, I'm not some hard case stereotypically masculine character in real life, I am definitely interested in platonic relationships), and it can be frustrated when not just most characters but every character has a romance, it doesn't stop me from relating to them at all but the percentage of main characters in series like warrior cats who end up in a romantic relationship is probably quite a bit larger than the already very large percentage of real life people, and it can feel like it's saying that people aren't worth writing about or being the heroes of their own stories if they don't have a romantic relationship, they just have to be designated as side characters. This for me applies to male characters as well as female - I would honestly be fine if say 80% of Warriors protagonists ended up in a romance, but having 100% of them have a romance, with no protagonist ever being left without one even if the romance they "have" to write in is contrived and OOC, it gets frustrating for the reasons I described. Yeah, though it’s a shame cause the author’s purposely tried to break “romance tradition” in general by giving Ivypool a stay at home dad, which in itself showed they they recognize Ivypool as a strong and independent character. I don’t think they gave Ivypool a mate to discourage anyone, in fact I think they hoped it would encourage people. But alas it end up backfiring. That’s really what I’ve been disappointed about- how the moment warriors actually tries to diversify its romance everyone screams that it’s just not good enough- even though like you said so many single readers like Ivypool for, well, being single among other things. The editors miscalculated their audience even though they had good intentions. And I mean if Fernsong had been mates with, say, Someone else... I mean we all wouldn’t have been in this situation. Ivypool’s just so popular you have a lot of people to please.
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