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Post by embertuft on Dec 29, 2018 13:52:29 GMT -5
The fan art that’s been made out of Hawk/Ivy though, and the fanfics tumblr
It’s just a ship that I can’t understand, first of all, the age gap, and second of all, Hawkfrost is DEAD.
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Post by Auransky on Dec 29, 2018 13:52:51 GMT -5
I think the real issue with OOTS, has to do with the timing, and changes following after PoT. Ivypool's character highlight only came as a result of the Erin's failing to find an ability that fits Hollyleaf. Let's sit down and think about this from an arc whole. What if the Erin's came up with an ability for Hollyleaf? What if Hollyleaf still disappeared in the tunnels after PoT? Then OOTS, could of been an arc long episode of "Where's Holly?"
Ivypool's story would of made more sense. "Jealous of her sister" > Learning what it means to be family. Better understanding her sister, coming to terms with her sister. Ivypool would then become a better character because guess what? She would then be learning the meaning of family, respect and other stuff that many of us can relate too. Since ya know? A lot of us have siblings, a lot of us have friends and feel like outcasts at times, or better, a lot of us feel jealous at times, and eventually we come to accepting and understanding.
Having Ivypool intermingled in the prophecy, her arc as an individual was suddenly pushed to the side for a war between the living and the dead. Because of this over arching plot, her character was rushed, her internal sturggles were pushed aside and she became the result of someone being undecided over another character who was better developed at that point in time.
Granted, no character is perfect. however, The Power of Three, was to get us settled to the three character. Get to know them, their struggles, and ways of overcoming to eventually accept who they are. PoT was a perfect bridge for us to meet our characters and get to know them. That way, OOTS, gets straight into the nitty gritty. Yes we were going to meet other characters that's always a given, but because Ivypool is given her share of the cake alongside Dovewing, she became a new character that we have to stop and get to know.
Had Ivypool been another character who would make decision later, with hollyleaf still in the prophecy, guess what? I wouldn't mind getting to know Ivypool, because she was supposed to represent a background that many of us can relate too. However, for the same reason that she is forced into our faces as a new character and suddenly a plot device, her past, struggles and overcoming suddenly feel empty and forced.
But they could of also kept Dovewing in the prophecy, and not created the whole "Dark Forest" training arc with Ivypool. They could of just kept her love interest in Shadow clan and excluded the "dream" arc. Which then goes back to the rushing issue, you introduce us to Dovewing & Ivypool. Two brand new characters with issues. Which is fine, because Dovewing gets powers, and her sister is just like "Bleh"
However, when you suddenly try to get us to like, learn and be with two new characters, and a plot that has already been forming for a while, you have A LOT to fill in less then 6 books. You can't even count the first book "4th apprentice" since it was trying to introduce us to these two new characters in the same form of attention, with little time for much else.
Therefore, Ivypool is a result of last minute decisions & undecided choices.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 30, 2018 15:15:19 GMT -5
That's actually...a really good analyzation...wow. It's kinda hard to find good criticism toward Ivypool that isn't out right bashing for the pettiest reasons tbh. I respect and actually agree with your points.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 11:00:00 GMT -5
What would have been interesting was if Ivypool became a villain. She would start as a spy but eventually get sucked in by the Dark Forest, causing her to turn against the Clans. Plus Firestar's family has too many do-gooders. This would make her a foil to the Three.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 12:46:35 GMT -5
What would have been interesting was if Ivypool became a villain. She would start as a spy but eventually get sucked in by the Dark Forest, causing her to turn against the Clans. Plus Firestar's family has too many do-gooders. This would make her a foil to the Three. I agree. I always wanted her to be a villain but instead she just became this poorly written bland character. She could have become a fake spy to the Three, her goal to kill Dovewing because her jealousy was the cause of that. She could pretend she's part of the Three, giving them false information. Hawkfrost could teach her how to manipulate her Clan and the Three. Then she tries to kill Dovewing and either 1) succeeds and feels remorse after the DF reveals they were using her to hurt the Clans or 2) Dovewing convinces her to be on their side and remind Ivypool that she loves her Orrr.... We could have an Evil!Dovewing. Take out the stupid romance and have her pretend to be part of the Three too. Either way, Evil!Ivypool or Evil!Dovewing would have been far more interesting than we got. I don't like Ivypool for personal reasons,both her shitty behavior and just the fact that she wasn't what I wanted. Needletail, Skystar & Hollyleaf are perfect examples of what Ivypool should have been, imo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 12:47:23 GMT -5
It really did seem like in OotS she was becoming cold and angry so this was wasted potential to become a villain, smh
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 31, 2018 13:00:09 GMT -5
Why not an AU where Hollyleaf lives and is still the third, but both Dovewing and Ivypool train together in the Dark Forest and work together as spies for the Three.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 13:10:11 GMT -5
Why not an AU where Hollyleaf lives and is still the third, but both Dovewing and Ivypool train together in the Dark Forest and work together as spies for the Three. I like that actually, it could work. The Erins should start looking at our own ideas lol. Dovewing could reach the DF while Ivypool is awake since she can't dream during the daytime and Ivypool spies at night. Dovewing can still wake her sister up if she feels anything bad happens to her so Ivypool won't be in any danger
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 31, 2018 14:51:39 GMT -5
Why not an AU where Hollyleaf lives and is still the third, but both Dovewing and Ivypool train together in the Dark Forest and work together as spies for the Three. I like that actually, it could work. The Erins should start looking at our own ideas lol. Dovewing could reach the DF while Ivypool is awake since she can't dream during the daytime and Ivypool spies at night. Dovewing can still wake her sister up if she feels anything bad happens to her so Ivypool won't be in any danger Exactly. There would be less envy, and more of two sisters having to choose to risk their lives to help the Three. They can still butt heads as all siblings do, but I would rather them have an unbreakable bond. In the future, Dovewing does not go back to Tigerheart, she stays single and becomes a great warrior, or her mate is like Foxleap or Stormcloud or something. IvyFern still happens, ect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 16:21:16 GMT -5
I like that actually, it could work. The Erins should start looking at our own ideas lol. Dovewing could reach the DF while Ivypool is awake since she can't dream during the daytime and Ivypool spies at night. Dovewing can still wake her sister up if she feels anything bad happens to her so Ivypool won't be in any danger Exactly. There would be less envy, and more of two sisters having to choose to risk their lives to help the Three. They can still butt heads as all siblings do, but I would rather them have an unbreakable bond. In the future, Dovewing does not go back to Tigerheart, she stays single and becomes a great warrior, or her mate is like Foxleap or Stormcloud or something. IvyFern still happens, ect. For sure take out Dovewing 's love life crap. Or just make Ivypool kill Tigerheart off so Tawnypelt becomes leader.
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Post by lapispaw on Jan 1, 2019 1:51:32 GMT -5
I remember not liking Ivypool because of how she treated Dovewing, how dumb she was to trust Tigerclaw, and her jealousy (though that's life i guess when you have a famous sis and you're being neglected because of it). However, I never read AVoS except for TAQ, so maybe she becomes super cool! Last time I read OotS was like a two to three years ago, so I don't have a definite opinion...
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Post by nightstep on Jan 2, 2019 18:07:13 GMT -5
Ivypool is absolutely my favorite character, and has been for a long time. I found her sister relationship with Dovewing extremely relatable and comparable to my own sibling relationship with my brother, and I found her time in the Dark Forest really interesting to read about. She is the main reason why Omen of the Stars is my favorite arc. Until I got on here I never really knew there was much reason to dislike her (or OotS for that matter). I think she's very deserving and able to become deputy/leader after that; she's definitely what I feel to be the strongest pick in ThunderClan to succeed Bramblestar.
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Post by Owlmoon on Jan 2, 2019 18:17:19 GMT -5
Oof, I'm way late to the party, sorry.
The thing with Ivypool, is that she's just super independent, fierce, slightly sassy, and a really strong character.
She may be more flawed than Dovewing (no, that's a lie...) but she's developed into a much better character. We got to witness her growth, which is a blessing in itself.
While she is the jealous sibling, she just can't help but feel left out. Lionblaze and Jayfeather often kind of act like her sister's siblings, and Dovewing keeps so much from her sister automatically. She doesn't feel close to her sibling, and she doesn't like that.
She embraces her flaws on more than one occasion, and grows from it. That's why I'm a fan of her.
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Post by gonxkillua on Jan 2, 2019 20:48:31 GMT -5
Ivypool is a character I just dont care about. I don't dislike her but I dont like her either she's just there for me but that's still better than sone other characters.
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Post by scint on Jan 2, 2019 20:55:28 GMT -5
I personally would've liked Ivypool more if she wasn't written poorly (everyone in OotS was badly written but I can stand Dovewing better), wasn't rushed, and instead of having her conflicts center around Dovewing in some way, shape, or form, have them center around other stuff too. Learning more about being a family would've been so much better for Ivypool's character than just being jealous of Dovewing. But no. Her execution and her actions within the series is why I don't like her. If she'd been done better, I could've liked her, maybe even loved her. But OotS and AVoS exist, so. No. I hate her.
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