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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 13:40:17 GMT -5
I never understood why fans like her. She's just... very bad. Bad as in badly written. I don't think she handles things right. I know people are gonna excuse her for everything and blah blah but is screaming at her sister and always getting mad at her for some stupid reason really the best way to handle this? She has no positive traits. She has a loving family. She's just mad because her sister got attention which is really petty imo. Like..Her selfishness is what started this all in the first place. It's always Ivypool who starts shit, not Dovewing
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Post by kinkajou on Dec 28, 2018 14:14:55 GMT -5
She wasn't very good in OotS but I love her in AVoS
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 28, 2018 14:30:07 GMT -5
That’s
An incredible lie?
Honestly she gets way more unnessecary hate that’s so farfecthed that I think most people are literally just grasping at straws and reaching every tiny thing out to make her seem like some monster while making Dovewing out to be some innocent party.
Ivypool, to me, is a good character because she’s natural, she’s flawed, she develops for the better and she’s strong willed and one of the few cats left who seems to follow the code these days. Dovewing’s happiness with her mate was literally secured by Ivypool and her willingly keeping her sister’s secret a secret from everyone. Ivypool gets kidnapped by Shadowclan because of Dove and Tiger and she STILL hides their secret.
She never told a soul, and while Dovewing was off literally putting unborn kits into danger, abandoning her family who clearly cared about her, not once did it say she felt uncared for by her family, and forcing the Shadowclan deputy who was needed in his clan to choose her and abandon Shadowclan.
Ivypool was jealous in her childhood. This is extremely natural, and she hasn’t been jealous of Dovewing for years. She got over it a long time ago. And it’s the nastiest feeling in the world, to have a sister who everyone literally tells you to your face that she’s better than you and is liked more than you. Blossomfall literally tells Ivypool that Dovewing is better and when Firestar is clearly giving Dovewing tasks that should be for much more experienced warriors, what child would not be a little envious? You guys are aware there’s more to a character than one trait, right?
Ivypool was upset when Dovewing up and abandoned the clan. She has every single right to be. If a family member you loved screwed off and never told you, would you be perfectly okay with it with not a single speck of sadness or anger? Ivypool then proceeds to tell Dovewing that she forgives her, she understands why her sister left, she lets her sister play with her kits and she embraces her. They don’t hate eachother, they have always loved eachother and I don’t understand why that seems to not register.
Ivypool was a fantastic mentor. She trains Twigbranch with care and dedication and blames herself for Twigbranch’s actions even when none of it is her fault. She accepts her back home and frets over her right away. She’s in a healthy and normal relationship which also seems to be rare these days and she’s a great mother and mate. She’s not out there forcing Fernsong to do things and abandon his duties for her.
Ivypool is not a horrible cat in the slightest and I seriously believe many people are overexhaggerating to the max with some of this stuff.
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Post by whiteflight on Dec 28, 2018 14:43:28 GMT -5
I agree with everything Moon said. That is why fans like Ivypool, plus we can also relate to her that's one reason why Ivypool gained fans quickly. Sibling jealousy is painful and hurts you a lot, plus I dislike Dovewing because her whole plot was dumb ever since she fell for Tiger. I started liking her when she learned to move on from tom drama and become an independent cat, but that got ruined quickly because she got pregnate with his kits and then ran away making the whole Thunderclan worry and waste their time trying to find her. Ivy on the other hand grew out of her jealousy and turned into a strong independent cat and learned to forgive.
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Post by Haze on Dec 28, 2018 14:45:39 GMT -5
I'm too biased against her for my opinion to be useful if I'm being honest...
But in short I have a heavy dislike for her character.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:53:45 GMT -5
That’s An incredible lie? Honestly she gets way more unnessecary hate that’s so farfecthed that I think most people are literally just grasping at straws and reaching every tiny thing out to make her seem like some monster while making Dovewing out to be some innocent party. Ivypool, to me, is a good character because she’s natural, she’s flawed, she develops for the better and she’s strong willed and one of the few cats left who seems to follow the code these days. Dovewing’s happiness with her mate was literally secured by Ivypool and her willingly keeping her sister’s secret a secret from everyone. Ivypool gets kidnapped by Shadowclan because of Dove and Tiger and she STILL hides their secret. She never told a soul, and while Dovewing was off literally putting unborn kits into danger, abandoning her family who clearly cared about her, not once did it say she felt uncared for by her family, and forcing the Shadowclan deputy who was needed in his clan to choose her and abandon Shadowclan. Ivypool was jealous in her childhood. This is extremely natural, and she hasn’t been jealous of Dovewing for years. She got over it a long time ago. And it’s the nastiest feeling in the world, to have a sister who everyone literally tells you to your face that she’s better than you and is liked more than you. Blossomfall literally tells Ivypool that Dovewing is better and when Firestar is clearly giving Dovewing tasks that should be for much more experienced warriors, what child would not be a little envious? You guys are aware there’s more to a character than one trait, right? Ivypool was upset when Dovewing up and abandoned the clan. She has every single right to be. If a family member you loved screwed off and never told you, would you be perfectly okay with it with not a single speck of sadness or anger? Ivypool then proceeds to tell Dovewing that she forgives her, she understands why her sister left, she lets her sister play with her kits and she embraces her. They don’t hate eachother, they have always loved eachother and I don’t understand why that seems to not register. Ivypool was a fantastic mentor. She trains Twigbranch with care and dedication and blames herself for Twigbranch’s actions even when none of it is her fault. She accepts her back home and frets over her right away. She’s in a healthy and normal relationship which also seems to be rare these days and she’s a great mother and mate. She’s not out there forcing Fernsong to do things and abandon his duties for her. Ivypool is not a horrible cat in the slightest and I seriously believe many people are overexhaggerating to the max with some of this stuff. She's hated for a reason. Fans don't hate her willy-nilly. She's always angry at Dovewing. I don't care what her reasons were, but her behavior is toxic and gross. Her character revolves around her. Opinions aren't lies lol, if you re-read the books Ivypool always starts shit. Every time we see Ivypool she's always pissed and that's not really a healthy way to deal with things. She's abusive to Tigerheart, and it took her two arcs to understand something so simple. Two. You're not going to change my mind. I don't like Dovewing either but Ivypool is not innocent like people excuse her to be. I don't blame Dove for leaving, she was never treated right and Ivy realized what her sister wanted at the last minute when it was too late and Dove was already gone.
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 28, 2018 14:56:28 GMT -5
That’s An incredible lie? Honestly she gets way more unnessecary hate that’s so farfecthed that I think most people are literally just grasping at straws and reaching every tiny thing out to make her seem like some monster while making Dovewing out to be some innocent party. Ivypool, to me, is a good character because she’s natural, she’s flawed, she develops for the better and she’s strong willed and one of the few cats left who seems to follow the code these days. Dovewing’s happiness with her mate was literally secured by Ivypool and her willingly keeping her sister’s secret a secret from everyone. Ivypool gets kidnapped by Shadowclan because of Dove and Tiger and she STILL hides their secret. She never told a soul, and while Dovewing was off literally putting unborn kits into danger, abandoning her family who clearly cared about her, not once did it say she felt uncared for by her family, and forcing the Shadowclan deputy who was needed in his clan to choose her and abandon Shadowclan. Ivypool was jealous in her childhood. This is extremely natural, and she hasn’t been jealous of Dovewing for years. She got over it a long time ago. And it’s the nastiest feeling in the world, to have a sister who everyone literally tells you to your face that she’s better than you and is liked more than you. Blossomfall literally tells Ivypool that Dovewing is better and when Firestar is clearly giving Dovewing tasks that should be for much more experienced warriors, what child would not be a little envious? You guys are aware there’s more to a character than one trait, right? Ivypool was upset when Dovewing up and abandoned the clan. She has every single right to be. If a family member you loved screwed off and never told you, would you be perfectly okay with it with not a single speck of sadness or anger? Ivypool then proceeds to tell Dovewing that she forgives her, she understands why her sister left, she lets her sister play with her kits and she embraces her. They don’t hate eachother, they have always loved eachother and I don’t understand why that seems to not register. Ivypool was a fantastic mentor. She trains Twigbranch with care and dedication and blames herself for Twigbranch’s actions even when none of it is her fault. She accepts her back home and frets over her right away. She’s in a healthy and normal relationship which also seems to be rare these days and she’s a great mother and mate. She’s not out there forcing Fernsong to do things and abandon his duties for her. Ivypool is not a horrible cat in the slightest and I seriously believe many people are overexhaggerating to the max with some of this stuff. She's hated for a reason. Fans don't hate her willy-nilly. She's always angry at Dovewing. I don't care what her reasons were, but her behavior is toxic and gross. Her character revolves around her. Opinions aren't lies lol, if you re-read the books Ivypool always starts shit. Every time we see Ivypool she's always pissed and that's not really a healthy way to deal with things. She's abusive to Tigerheart, and it took her two arcs to understand something so simple. Two. You're not going to change my mind. I don't like Dovewing either but Ivypool is not innocent like people excuse her to be. I don't blame Dove for leaving, she was never treated right and Ivy realized what her sister wanted at the last minute when it was too late and Dove was already gone. She doesn’t constantly start crap with her sister but lol, have your opinion. The question was why we liked Ivypool, I answered. I assumed the thread was made to bash on a character you dislike but alot of us like her because we don’t agree with what you think. She’s not toxic, she has natural emotions, and Dovewing’s gotten away with acting way worse. I could care less if your opinion changes. But mine was asked for, and I gave it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:56:35 GMT -5
First time she was mad at her wasn't even Dovewing's fault. I can understand her being mad for breaking the code but you have to also realize that Ivypool didn't treat her right. Both sisters are toxic to each other. One is a selfish idiot while the other is an angry asshole
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 28, 2018 15:04:34 GMT -5
First time she was mad at her wasn't even Dovewing's fault. I can understand her being mad for breaking the code but you have to also realize that Ivypool didn't treat her right. Both sisters are toxic to each other. One is a selfish idiot while the other is an angry asshole Why are the parts where they care for eachother forgotten? The last book of AVOS literally showed Ivypool and Dovewing forgiving and embracing and understanding one another. The end of OOTS showed Ivypool and Dovewing getting protective of eachother when Jayfeather and Lionblaze were pressuring them. Ivypool kept Dovewing’s secret for years, when an angry asshole would have shouted it out to the clans. Ivypool was clearly distraught when Dovewing left the clan without word, was clearly upset when she knew Tigerheart had been with Dovewing and knew where she was going and did not go with her. Ivypool had no clue and nowhere to start to try and find her sister because Dovewing never told her. They have moments of quarrel but it is achingly clear in so many scenes that they care alot for eachother. I think Ivypool is indeed emotional and sharp, and that Dovewing is extremely selfish, but neither of them are toxic to eachother like the forums seem to be making them out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 15:07:36 GMT -5
She's hated for a reason. Fans don't hate her willy-nilly. She's always angry at Dovewing. I don't care what her reasons were, but her behavior is toxic and gross. Her character revolves around her. Opinions aren't lies lol, if you re-read the books Ivypool always starts shit. Every time we see Ivypool she's always pissed and that's not really a healthy way to deal with things. She's abusive to Tigerheart, and it took her two arcs to understand something so simple. Two. You're not going to change my mind. I don't like Dovewing either but Ivypool is not innocent like people excuse her to be. I don't blame Dove for leaving, she was never treated right and Ivy realized what her sister wanted at the last minute when it was too late and Dove was already gone. She doesn’t constantly start crap with her sister but lol, have your opinion. The question was why we liked Ivypool, I answered. I assumed the thread was made to bash on a character you dislike but alot of us like her because we don’t agree with what you think. She’s not toxic, she has natural emotions, and Dovewing’s gotten away with acting way worse. I could care less if your opinion changes. But mine was asked for, and I gave it. She was toxic. She should have left the situation alone. She always boasted to Dovewing about how right she was about her seeing him instead of telling her to cut Tigerheart out of her life. She was pressuring Dovewing to believe that he was training in the Dark Forest. She didn't respect Dovewing's feelings. She was never gentle to get sister. Every time they always talked she always screamed at her. It's all in Fading Echoes. First time she was mad at Dovewing, it wasn't even her fault. Dovewing cannot control something she didn't even wanted. Her entire character revolves Ivypool getting mad at her for whatever reason. She was also awful to Tigerheart, making him feel guilty for being loyal to his Clan. The one time Tigerheart does right, Ivypool guilt trips him for not going after Dovewing.ShadowClan was collapsing and Ivypool is mad at him for being loyal to his Clan. She even doesn't let Twigbranch find her family so DoveTiger won't be on patrol, which affected Twigbranch. Ivypool 's anger affects not just Dovewing but other cats too. She didn't even try to understand until she had her own kits. How is this not toxic, if her anger started to affect everything? I don't understand how you can't see that.
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 28, 2018 15:14:11 GMT -5
this is going nowhere. Ivypool is not toxic and she will never be toxic in my opinion. she’s allowed to be angry at her sister and other cats for literally abandoning their clans and breaking codes because she was a loyal warrior. why ask why we love ivy pool if you’re just Going to try and make her seem like a worse cat then she actually is when she’s not?
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 28, 2018 15:15:59 GMT -5
I’m not in the mood to debate about this topic again. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 15:18:03 GMT -5
this is going nowhere. Ivypool is not toxic and she will never be toxic in my opinion. she’s allowed to be angry at her sister and other cats for literally abandoning their clans and breaking codes because she was a loyal warrior. why ask why we love ivy pool if you’re just Going to try and make her seem like a worse cat then she actually is when she’s not? She always will be toxic to me and she's not as good as people make her out to be, but that's just me. Very well, agree to disagree.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 28, 2018 18:34:39 GMT -5
Lol, she wouldn't have to constantly start anything with her sister if Dovewing wasn't constantly making idiotic decisions despite reaching adulthood ages ago. I personally excused both of their stupidity and naive behavior when they were younger, but there is a point and time where a character should know better. Dovewing was aware how dumb she was being, how wrong her actions were, and selfish overall, and still continued in the same way. That's the problem with her character, she continued to regress, and people just get mad at Ivypool for pointing out those faults when Ivypool is just telling the truth, lol. I personally didn't even initially dislike Dovewing, can't really even call it that either, if anything it's disappointment for how trashed her character became. Especially compared to her sister who grew up to be a respected and loyal warrior of her birth clan, had two apprentices, and has a happy healthy family of her own, with a supportive mate and zero unnecessary drama.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 18:58:03 GMT -5
The writing quality in Omen of the Stars is just terrible, so that's both their POVs will suffer. Though I prefer Ivypool over Dovewing, she's still lacking in a lot of potential. Both characters ain't good.
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Post by scint on Dec 28, 2018 22:24:53 GMT -5
I'm not in the mood to debate this topic and most of you know what I think, but no, I don't think Ivypool's a good character.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 29, 2018 0:37:21 GMT -5
warriors as a whole isn't the best written (oots in particular) but i don't get why there's this recurring pattern of characters being called badly written just because people don't like them It also kinda comes down to how unpopular OotS seems to be? Ivypool, for the most part, had the most interesting character development and POV back in the day, but it was basically the least problematic one. Whereas her and Jayfeather's POV's were at least something new and interesting because we got inside looks of both StarClan and the Dark Forest, Lionblaze's was unbearingly boring with unnecessary couple drama thrown in, while Dovewing's was just an utter mess and mostly centered around a love triangle no one cared about. Neither Jay's or Ivy's POV's were perfect, but at least they were better than the latter two, in the midst of a very inconsistently written arc. Despite all the criticisms toward OotS, I personally still found it to be enjoyable, if not, tolerable read, only really because of Ivypool.
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Post by scint on Dec 29, 2018 0:49:55 GMT -5
warriors as a whole isn't the best written (oots in particular) but i don't get why there's this recurring pattern of characters being called badly written just because people don't like them Agreed, I may love Dovewing and Lionblaze, but I'm well aware both of them are badly written. I think OotS would've been much better if there'd been more communication and a better thought out plot. Maybe more people would like it then.
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Post by embertuft on Dec 29, 2018 9:04:57 GMT -5
I hate Ivypool. And I’m not in the mood to argue at other people because of opinions that she’s a good character. It’s just a point of opinion, why do people need to be shown up just because of their opinion?
I don’t like her, because of all the times I’ve read of her she’s always been angry at Dovewing, the Hawkfrost/ and Ivypool ship I absolutely despise. She’s badly written and even if she might have her good times, her bad times balance vastly over the good times of her character (IN MY OPINION!)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 11:39:18 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm just happy more people are starting to see this. Never really liked her from the start. And she doesn't deserve to be deputy, imo.
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Post by embertuft on Dec 29, 2018 11:42:21 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm just happy more people are starting to see this. Never really liked her from the start. And she doesn't deserve to be deputy, imo. I might actually stop reading if she become deputy. Like, what has she done to deserve it? Is it just because she dealt with Dovewing that people think she deserves the world and is a great hero and all that? Is it because she “risked her life” for the Dark Forest stuff. Tbh I would’ve been glad if she had been killed off by Hawkfrost when he found out that she was spying on them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 11:47:40 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm just happy more people are starting to see this. Never really liked her from the start. And she doesn't deserve to be deputy, imo. I might actually stop reading if she become deputy. Like, what has she done to deserve it? Is it just because she dealt with Dovewing that people think she deserves the world and is a great hero and all that? Is it because she “risked her life” for the Dark Forest stuff. Tbh I would’ve been glad if she had been killed off by Hawkfrost when he found out that she was spying on them. Eh, I wouldn't stop reading for that. I hate her but not that much. But I will stop if they keep forcing the stupid DoveTigerIvy drama any longer. It didn't need to continue and should have ended in Dovewing 's Silence. I don't know why they forced everyone back in the books. But, I agree she's not that big of a hero everyone says she is. Jayfeather did all of the work, not her.
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Post by embertuft on Dec 29, 2018 11:50:05 GMT -5
I might actually stop reading if she become deputy. Like, what has she done to deserve it? Is it just because she dealt with Dovewing that people think she deserves the world and is a great hero and all that? Is it because she “risked her life” for the Dark Forest stuff. Tbh I would’ve been glad if she had been killed off by Hawkfrost when he found out that she was spying on them. Eh, I wouldn't stop reading for that. I hate her but not that much. But I will stop if they keep forcing the stupid DoveTigerIvy drama any longer. It didn't need to continue and should have ended in Dovewing 's Silence. I don't know why they forced everyone back in the books. But, I agree she's not that big of a hero everyone says she is. Jayfeather did all of the work, not her. Maybe I was exaggerating a bit lol, but I wouldn’t like her to become deputy. I wish she wasn’t the most popular choice for deputy, why not someone like Molewhisker? Yeah Jayfeather did do a load of work compared to her lmao (I’m not gonna argue with anyone so I’m just straightaway going to go “agree to disagree”)
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 29, 2018 12:15:45 GMT -5
Hmm...I don't know. The only thing Jayfeather actually did was unite StarClan, who imo don't seem very bright anyways. On the other hand, Ivypool was able to convince other trainees to help fight for their clan, and actively stopped ones that tried to turn on them. You can argue that's a bad spy, but imo that's more or less Jayfeather and Lionblaze's fault, and pretty laughable at that. Since both Jayfeather and Dovewing could have been better spies, without Ivypool have to risk her life every night, in the long run, it just makes them seem like jerks tbh. And then even after that, she's teaching cats how to fight badgers, while also being a pretty great mentor. I can't really say the same for Jay in that character, especially considering how verbally abusive he is in general, but I guess the fandom continues to gush over grumpy characters like that anyways.
Alo, Hawk x Ivy was never a thing in canon, never will be, isn't even that popular. In canon, Ivypool has a mate that supports and cares about her, their relationship is healthy, and they have a happy family together, within the confines of their own clan, zero drama necessary.
And, at the moment, Ivypool has more than enough development, credentials, and skills to become deputy. And the only other character that even comes close to leadership qualities after her, imo, are Lilywhisker and Berrynose. Who aren't exactly too old, or too young, but still need other things like apprentices, etc.
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 29, 2018 13:06:18 GMT -5
I want Ivypool to be leader/deputy twice as badly now just to feel everyone’s anguish and anger. I want her to pick Berrynose as her deputy too to put a cherry on that teardrop sundae.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 13:24:21 GMT -5
I want Ivypool to be leader/deputy twice as badly now just to feel everyone’s anguish and anger. I want her to pick Berrynose as her deputy too to put a cherry on that teardrop sundae. And I want people not to take something personally over fictional book characters. This is getting ridiculous.
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 29, 2018 13:38:27 GMT -5
I want Ivypool to be leader/deputy twice as badly now just to feel everyone’s anguish and anger. I want her to pick Berrynose as her deputy too to put a cherry on that teardrop sundae. And I want people not to take something personally over fictional book characters. This is getting ridiculous. I think the joke is flying right over your head, my friend. woosh there it went. It might be you who’s taking it the most personally lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 13:40:14 GMT -5
Hmm...I don't know. The only thing Jayfeather actually did was unite StarClan, who imo don't seem very bright anyways. On the other hand, Ivypool was able to convince other trainees to help fight for their clan, and actively stopped ones that tried to turn on them. You can argue that's a bad spy, but imo that's more or less Jayfeather and Lionblaze's fault, and pretty laughable at that. Since both Jayfeather and Dovewing could have been better spies, without Ivypool have to risk her life every night, in the long run, it just makes them seem like jerks tbh. And then even after that, she's teaching cats how to fight badgers, while also being a pretty great mentor. I can't really say the same for Jay in that character, especially considering how verbally abusive he is in general, but I guess the fandom continues to gush over grumpy characters like that anyways. Alo, Hawk x Ivy was never a thing in canon, never will be, isn't even that popular. In canon, Ivypool has a mate that supports and cares about her, their relationship is healthy, and they have a happy family together, within the confines of their own clan, zero drama necessary. And, at the moment, Ivypool has more than enough development, credentials, and skills to become deputy. And the only other character that even comes close to leadership qualities after her, imo, are Lilywhisker and Berrynose. Who aren't exactly too old, or too young, but still need other things like apprentices, etc. Eh, fair point on the spying thing. But Jay and Dove weren't responsible for that. Ivy agreed, once it becomes an agreement, you can't break your word. Doesn't matter if people didn't want to do it. Take this as real life, you gotta work in order to survive. She's no different in this, she's stuck there anyways. And yeah, Hawk x Ivy is gross. I never understood why people shipped that. If it was canon it would have been abusive. I actually like IvyxFern, the hate for it is stupid since most people are salty about BlossomIvy not being a thing. There's plenty of others out there ready for deputy though. She's only "ready" because she's the only one bring used while the other background characters are forced aside for the sake of the stupid DoveIvy drama But I hope we're done with this crap, I'm so sick of it and I don't wanna see Shadowkit as the protagonist but it's obvious he will be, lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2018 13:41:41 GMT -5
My tablet is stupid with typos lol, sorry
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