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Post by CinderpeltFan on Dec 11, 2018 8:59:59 GMT -5
All good things must come to an end. Warriors is no exception, and it feel like it must be ending soon. The question is, how? A full, there-will-be-nothing-after-this ending has to be conclusive and explosive. We need a badder baddie than ever, and some epic finale. That's kind of what The Last Hope was, but then DOTC happened.
So how do you think it should end?
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Post by Haze on Dec 11, 2018 9:22:52 GMT -5
Shadowkit poison the Moonpool during winter killing all the other medicine cats causing the Lake War I. Shadowclan is victorious because most of the cats of the other clans died from greencough from the lack of medics.
Mistystar is still alive.
Edit: I was only joking, but a plot where the villain poisoned the Moonpool killing most of the Medicine cats and the consequence of that is a lot more cats dying by the lack of medics is actually decent...
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Post by kells on Dec 11, 2018 10:33:36 GMT -5
The Erins never should've picked up after The Last Hope, Bramblestar's Storm and Dovewing's Silence was already pushing it-- hell, even DotC was pushing it a little, but that was more understandable. But AVoS was terrible, and just killed all of the buzz that OoTS had.
Something in the Broken Code needs to happen that forces the Clans to stop mindlessly following StarClan's prophecies and whatever bland script they have in their mind that makes them spew out the same "that's the way things should be!!1!" excuse for every single thing. Medicine cats should have kits if there are queens (or if there's like 8 other medicine cats which ThunderClan almost always has). Clan cats can leave to become kittypets, and vice versa, if a kittypet is being lazy and leeching, kick them out. Easy as that. there was never a need to make an entire code over it when it exile was clearly all that needed to be done.
Do borders really have to exist? No. This has been proven so times it drives me up the wall. Eliminate the borders and maybe forbidden love wouldn't be so forbidden. ThunderClan has fed other Clans so many times I don't see the point in killing each other for food you can easily share. Borders have done literally nothing but cause drama and it's just insane that after all these generations none of the characters have looked back on this and thought "wow maybe borders really do suck and shouldn't exist for the sake of tradition".
What I feel Warriors needs for a grand finale is a slap of reality from someone like Needlepaw (before she became a jerk) or a rogue that doesn't fall into that hive mind.
Say, maybe Sol comes back and actually does something really impacting that destroys the Clans completely and they have to reclaim the lake territories again. In the meantime, we have some fresh POVs with a realistic mindset who can fix that stupid system that made no sense. The epilogue will show the Clan moving on with a much more relaxed lifestyle like pre-Thunder Rising DoTC. If it ended like that-- even if the Tigerstar clones multiply into 1000-- I would be at some kind of peace.
Before the blurb of DotC came out I was hoping the fifth arc would feature Breezepelt getting revenge with an army after TLH and maybe destroying that Clans but that idea was thrown out the window
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Post by Redstorm on Dec 11, 2018 11:31:25 GMT -5
Epilogue showing Firestar as the last remaining cat in StarClan (since he is last one remembered) and then disappearing and "moving on".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 15:18:09 GMT -5
A war of ideologies. It’s slightly inspired by a story I’m working on rn, but I’ve had the idea of this floating around in my head for a while. I don’t really want to put that much effort into a fanfic though, so I guess this is the farthest this idea will get. It’s a bit long. The clan cats are going on business as usual, when a group of traveling rogues shows up. Said rogues know nothing of the clans, and after some slight conflict and misunderstanding, make a deal that they can stay at the edges of the territories for the leafbare season. Some patrols see them at the borders every once in a while, with tensions low for a moon or two.
Then, one of the rogues — I’ll call her Snow — asks to visit one of the clans’ camps. Seeing as the main clan is ThunderClan, it’ll probably be them, but it also would be cool to see Riverclan get some spotlight and maybe have a POV. The clan allows her in, and Snow is astonished by the way the clans are run. When their leader is mentioned, Snow gasps. She says that the rogues don’t have a leader in the way they do, to which the clan cats ask if they have a healer, a reference to the tribe. Snow asks what a healer is, and when told, remarks no.
This leads the cats to question who even leads them, to which Snow responds, “Everyone,” or something to that degree. The clan cats are confused; How could everyone be leader?
She tells them of what amounts to a democracy, with each cat getting a direct say in what happens rather than a leader deciding for them. Some of the kits, apprentices and possibly even Warriors are interested, while others either don’t say anything or scoff.
We then skip some time to towards the end of the season. Most of the time in between wasn’t too eventful, with the rogues staying where they were and conflicts being limited. However, it is now the ends of leafbare and the gathering is about to begin, when the gathered cats hear voices. The rogues emerge from the side of the island, having seen the clan cats gather before.
The clan cats watch with intrigue as the rogues confer with another, before one bounds forward. This rogue could be another random cat, but it’ll likely be Snow, since she’s interacted with them before. Snow announces that the rogues want to stay at the lake, as prey has been plentiful and predators mostly lacking due to how close they stuck to clan borders and how short they stayed. After a bit of a debate, the clan leaders allow them to stay. Tigerstar II is the most against this, while Mistystar and Bramblestar are most for it, which may be some setup for later on.
However the case it happens, clan cats learn even more about the rogues and are inspired by their ideas, though nothing revolutionary has happened yet. Eventually, comes leafbare yet again, cold and near preyless. The lake is almost entirely frozen over, meaning Riverclan can’t fish.
The clan cats are dissatisfied, noting that the rogues seem to be better off due to the vastness of the unclaimed territories, and, though they don’t know it, the lack of hunting there in times past. Some extremists even argue that it’s their government, and want to take it even further to what amounts to anarchism. Others are angry at the protesters, claiming their way of life is fine and shouldn’t be changed. Sparkpelt is chief among the latter crew in ThunderClan, other vocal conservatives being Tigerstar II, Crowfeather, Nightcloud, Tawnypelt, Willowshine, Leafstar, Hawkwing, Twigbranch and Finleap. Those prominently on the democracy side are Violetshine, Heathertail, Bramblestar, Alderheart, Rabbitstar, Dovewing, Mistystar and Kestrelflight. Finally, the anarchists are Breezepelt, Heathertail, and mostly newer, barely named Warriors or Apprentices. (I don’t have much time right now, otherwise I’d make a longer, more precise list.)
As discontentment grows further and prey shorter, leaders start taking action. Mistystar steps back as leader, keeping her lives but acting as more of an enforcement of the will of her clan and figurehead rather than ruling by herself. The RiverClan cats start hunting beyond the border, and the other clans are alarmed by the change when they learn of it. There’s very little rebellion within the clan, as a majority wanted the alteration.
Bramblestar seems to want to step back as well, partially due to his confidence issues. This leaves ThunderClan’s conservatives uneasy, but nothing has happened yet.
When revolts break out in SkyClan, Leafstar tightens her grip on the clan with force, but doesn’t go to as much of an extreme as ShadowClan.
Tigerstar II doesn’t appreciate the new ideas of his clan mates at all, openly denouncing them. Dovewing tried to keep quiet because of this, but in secret speaks with others about it. When one day there’s no prey on the pile and Tigerstar refuses to allow patrols past the border, a revolt breaks out. He silences the revolt for the time being with force, and slowly an elite force of cats that agree with his opinion starts to form. This force intimidates the dissenters into hiding, Tigerstar II thinking it will prevent another rebellion like with Darktail but instead bringing his Clan closer and closer to the way the kin was every day. Dovewing doesn’t like this at all, and aids rebels in secret.
Windclan, with mild Harestar, appears to just watch with interest. There are anarchsists among them, but their leader allows them to hunt over the border, preventing the worst of the starvation that led to other rebellions.
SkyClan is the first to reach a full-scale rebellion stage, with their leader not exercising enough force to make them hide away but also not satisfying them. Led by Violetshine, (though that is negotiable) they launch an assault on Leafstar and get her to back down. She’s now a figurehead, with the rebels acting as a temporary council while they implement reforms. The ThunderClan conservatives get even more antsy from this, and some even actively harass suspected believers. In return, some believers start harassing them.
The rogues watch all this with interest, but stay out of it in the view of the public eye. They are happy to ally with RiverClan and New SkyClan, and disgusted by ShadowClan. In secret, they send aid to rebel groups in ShadowClan, and try their best to assist with the building of New SkyClan.
As tensions grow higher, the believers receive a name, “Stick Pickers,” after the way the rogues vote. (They vote by taking sticks and placing them under specified trees.)
Eventually, it builds to a war between the Stick Pickers and True Clanners (conservatives). ShadowClan takes the initiative, motivated by a prophetic dream that stated to protect the ways of the clans. Upon hearing of this during an attack, Mothwing speaks out about it and RiverClan becomes increasingly areligious, to the shock of the other clans. ThunderClan tries it’s best to stay out, but things only get more tense as the two sides begin to stereotype one another, refusing to compromise. The more extreme True Clanners of ThunderClan push to ally with Windclan and ShadowClan and attack RiverClan and SkyClan, wanting to convert them back to the old way of life.
Over the moons of the war, each side gets so polarized that neither could ever have any chance of agreeing. The rogues become a prime target for ThunderClan True Clanners and ShadowClan when their aid is revealed, leading them to flee to the RiverClan-WindClan side of the lake, where they ally openly with RiverClan and SkyClan.
Something needs to be done within ThunderClan, and Bramblestar is too afraid to take action. After a coup involving Sparkpelt as the leader, Bramblestar is forced to flee. Many of the Stick Pickers go with him, preferring his leadership to the more extreme Sparkpelt’s. ThunderClan is now split in half, unable to be reunited unless a big change is made.
Multiple battles occur, various events build up tension until one last battle. The rogues have a plan, and tell SkyClan’s council and RiverClan’s clan members of it. They agree.
The battle is told from a True Clanner or middle ground POV, so the plan is unknown to the character. It starts with an attack on ShadowClan, targeting Tigerstar and his allies. During the fight, a group of ShadowClan cats, led by Dovewing, break off and start fighting the elite. Being largely outnumbered, Tigerstar and his supporters surrender, and terms are to be worked out later.
The True Clanners of ThunderClan can’t have this, and take Tigerstar and his elite in. They plot a way to bring the clans back to the old ways, recruiting True Clanners from the other clans to help them.
It culminates in a final battle between the True Clanners, Stick Picker alliances, rogues and lost half of ThunderClan, where deaths are numerable and the end is bitter. Two groups are formed: WaterClan (the Stick Pickers) and TreeClan (the True Clanners).
Neither side got what they wanted. The clans are in political ruin, with moderates either biting their tongues or fleeing. It’s left somewhat open ended, so that the audience can imagine what happens next however they want. (Or, are left to angrily wonder what could be as they get upset that it’s not neatly wrapped up in a bow like I do.)
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Post by kinkajou on Dec 11, 2018 15:35:12 GMT -5
they evolve into furries
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Post by wolfcry32 on Dec 12, 2018 0:39:45 GMT -5
There’s two ways that I would love to see.
The first isn’t really a complete end. But I like the idea of something like a bookend. Just how the series started with Rusty going into the forest, another (completely unrelated) cat comtemplates doing the same. Whether they do or not is open ended.
The second would take place over an entire arc. Tensions rise between the Clans early, largely in book 1. Skirmishes break out in alarming frequency and alliances are quickly made. However by mid book 3 and book 4 the alliances are broken, resulting in a five way full scale war. Book 5 has the full focus of said war. It ends on an ambiguous ending. Book 6 has a cat (kittypet, rogue, loner, doesn’t matter) exploring the forest in the far future. Perhaps they felt compelled to do so by some unknown force. They visit familiar (to us) locations and receive visions of how the war concluded. Spoilers: everyone either died or the Clans disbanded.
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Post by kinkajou on Dec 12, 2018 8:18:25 GMT -5
There’s two ways that I would love to see. The first isn’t really a complete end. But I like the idea of something like a bookend. Just how the series started with Rusty going into the forest, another (completely unrelated) cat comtemplates doing the same. Whether they do or not is open ended. The second would take place over an entire arc. Tensions rise between the Clans early, largely in book 1. Skirmishes break out in alarming frequency and alliances are quickly made. However by mid book 3 and book 4 the alliances are broken, resulting in a five way full scale war. Book 5 has the full focus of said war. It ends on an ambiguous ending. Book 6 has a cat (kittypet, rogue, loner, doesn’t matter) exploring the forest in the far future. Perhaps they felt compelled to do so by some unknown force. They visit familiar (to us) locations and receive visions of how the war concluded. Spoilers: everyone either died or the Clans disbanded. and this new cat restarts the clans
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Post by embertuft on Dec 12, 2018 11:15:10 GMT -5
At The Last Hope
Broken Code is my last hope for warriors but if Shadowkit is the main protag I’m gonna lob that book out the fricking window
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Post by halogen on Dec 12, 2018 14:43:05 GMT -5
The Erins never should've picked up after The Last Hope, Bramblestar's Storm and Dovewing's Silence was already pushing it-- hell, even DotC was pushing it a little, but that was more understandable. But AVoS was terrible, and just killed all of the buzz that OoTS had. Something in the Broken Code needs to happen that forces the Clans to stop mindlessly following StarClan's prophecies and whatever bland script they have in their mind that makes them spew out the same "that's the way things should be!!1!" excuse for every single thing. Medicine cats should have kits if there are queens (or if there's like 8 other medicine cats which ThunderClan almost always has). Clan cats can leave to become kittypets, and vice versa, if a kittypet is being lazy and leeching, kick them out. Easy as that. there was never a need to make an entire code over it when it exile was clearly all that needed to be done. Do borders really have to exist? No. This has been proven so times it drives me up the wall. Eliminate the borders and maybe forbidden love wouldn't be so forbidden. ThunderClan has fed other Clans so many times I don't see the point in killing each other for food you can easily share. Borders have done literally nothing but cause drama and it's just insane that after all these generations none of the characters have looked back on this and thought "wow maybe borders really do suck and shouldn't exist for the sake of tradition". What I feel Warriors needs for a grand finale is a slap of reality from someone like Needlepaw (before she became a jerk) or a rogue that doesn't fall into that hive mind. Say, maybe Sol comes back and actually does something really impacting that destroys the Clans completely and they have to reclaim the lake territories again. In the meantime, we have some fresh POVs with a realistic mindset who can fix that stupid system that made no sense. The epilogue will show the Clan moving on with a much more relaxed lifestyle like pre-Thunder Rising DoTC. If it ended like that-- even if the Tigerstar clones multiply into 1000-- I would be at some kind of peace. Before the blurb of DotC came out I was hoping the fifth arc would feature Breezepelt getting revenge with an army after TLH and maybe destroying that Clans but that idea was thrown out the windowI love stories of cultural change though I feel like while to us the warriors' traditions look ridiculous, an outsider to our own culture might say the same about our traditions/wars/politics/etc., and wonder why we are so stupid. The Clans, like our own society, have changed (like with the new code in Bramblestar's Storm, or the greater acceptance of kitty pets) if at a slow pace that might make one react "I guess it's nice they are finally doing something?" rather than a sense of victory - even though the reactions of similar reforms from within a society, rather than the views of a distant outsider, would be pride and elation at such a hard-won victory This is all better than enlightened protagonists who have views exactly like modern readers and easily convince their society to change instantly for the better) which I see too often. So I'm not sure I think it's bad or unrealistic that the warrior cats Clans don't just completely learn from their mistakes and build a perfect society without stupid traditions or prejudices. That general idea isn't bad, whatever I think of the specifics of how the Erins handled it. That's not to say the Erins are amazing at writing societies set in their ways and the gradual but epic changes that unfold in them - they certainly aren't. They tend to turn dissidents into one-dimensional villains or at least way more villainous than they seemed to get rid of the moral complexity, they sometimes do tweak things in the favor of messed-up traditions for the sake of drama when natural development would lead to reform, and they sometimes even take the side of some of the weird traditions (like how they seem to favor the idea of destiny deciding what you do in life and hard work/following your dreams being bad, or somewhat/sort of endorsing the Clans' ideas of genetic determinism). On the flip side, they often portray defenders of traditions (like refusing kitty pets into the Clans) as one-dimensional bullies rather than showing their beliefs in a psychologically realistic if still ultimately bigoted and wrongheaded way. In general, they seem to always want their main characters to have a certain amount of conservatism and a certain amount of liberalism that probably corresponds with their own beliefs, and make anyone who leans too much in one way (Hollyleaf) or another (Needletail) meet a horrible end, and with the exceptions of such tragic characters the protagonist's political views about the Clan are always depicted as right, even if they might have other flaws. A plot of revolutionaries ending up doing some horrible things and making others feel that all attempts at societal change will lead to bloodthirstiness and death and becoming uncompromising reactionaries as a result could be interesting, of course, and has basis in real life. But real rebellions/revolutions are way more complicated than whatever Darktail is doing.
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Post by mymerlincat on Dec 12, 2018 16:45:45 GMT -5
kill everyone
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Post by Brindlefern on Dec 12, 2018 16:57:18 GMT -5
I would've end the main series with the modern clans at The Last Hope like it was fricking supposed to.
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Post by embertuft on Dec 13, 2018 16:32:19 GMT -5
I would've end the main series with the modern clans at The Last Hope like it was fricking supposed to. Exactly.I should probably calm myself down.
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Post by taeraredstar on Dec 13, 2018 20:15:31 GMT -5
Well, what if all of the clans break up into rogues and kittypets at the end of the broken code? Then they could publish one final series, and at the end of that arc one of the clans is rebuilt. It would end on a happy note, keep Warriors going a little longer (because Harper Collins won't let it die until it doesn't make $$) and the Clan could make new traditions that actually make sense.
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Post by Spinel on Dec 13, 2018 21:00:08 GMT -5
Erase every single book after The Last Hope.
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Post by taeraredstar on Dec 13, 2018 21:32:30 GMT -5
"make a bad book that will make the people stop buying."
Lol, Haven't they done that multiple times in the past two or so years?
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Post by scint on Dec 14, 2018 1:39:04 GMT -5
Well, what if all of the clans break up into rogues and kittypets at the end of the broken code? Then they could publish one final series, and at the end of that arc one of the clans is rebuilt. It would end on a happy note, keep Warriors going a little longer (because Harper Collins won't let it die until it doesn't make $$) and the Clan could make new traditions that actually make sense. I'd prefer this over the series ending at TLH, it honestly seems more appropriate with the direction they're taking. I still think that killing every character off somehow would be better but eh.
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Post by scint on Dec 14, 2018 1:58:18 GMT -5
In all honesty, I'm happy that the series continued after TLH since we got more on what happens to the Clans after the events of the DF battle. Personally I'm fine with the content we're being given recently, and nothing is going to be perfect. I wouldn't "end" Warriors persay, but here's how I would have it go by the end of TBC:
TBC ends with a StarClan civil war along with the Clans, diminishing many numbers of the Clans, StarClan, and maybe the DF (but really I don't want that). It seems to end there without any loose ends, but I would have one last series that takes place in the future after TBC, which has the Clans eventually die out or become one Clan or something like that. That's when it would conclude, and no more main series after that. Instead of more main series stuff I would instead focus more of SEs and Novellas for past characters or characters that could use more development. So instead of the series ending and nothing else, just SEs and Novellas coming out every so often. Not sure if it's related to this topic exactly but I wouldn't want to have a DotC arc taking place after the first. I think it just needs to be left alone, a few Novellas and one or two more SEs, but that's it. Now that they aren't starting from a blank slate of characters it'll be quite hard to keep them in character, and there probably wouldn't be too much to take on...most of the stuff that can be addressed within another DotC series (mentors/apprentices, deputies, Warrior Code, etc) can be addressed in a Novella or an SE, in the medicine cat's case (though to be fair this role is more important than the others in a way). Sure, more battles and maybe stuff with early StarClan, but that's about all I can think of. And since we have StarClan in the mix, that could make things worse. I just wouldn't make another arc taking place during DotC, since it doesn't really have anything going for me. The modern timeline has something more to work with (well for me) and at least more of a plot that you can guess that will happen afterwards, but could be completely wrong. Another DotC arc seems bland and predictable to me, so that wouldn't be how I continue/end Warriors. Just simple SEs and Novellas after two more modern Clan arcs.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Dec 14, 2018 6:03:00 GMT -5
Would've ended it at TLH for the modern Clans. And had some SE's or Novellas to follow afterwards. Then go back to DOTC arc
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Post by Tas on Dec 14, 2018 11:52:28 GMT -5
I don't.
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Post by dashingshadows on Dec 14, 2018 12:18:40 GMT -5
"The rising sun broke over the trees and flooded the clearing with light and warmth, and it seemed to Firestar that no dawn had ever been brighter."
And the rest of the books could be jumping around through the history of the Clans
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Post by Brindlefern on Dec 14, 2018 12:30:08 GMT -5
Would've ended it at TLH for the modern Clans. And had some SE's or Novellas to follow afterwards. Then go back to DOTC arc I feel like that was what the Erins originally planned. Ending the modern clan era at TLH (Like come on the book ended on a note that read as if that was the absolute end of an era, which it was), with Dovewing's Novella and Brambleclaw's SE to show how they're doing post-TLH. And DoTC was a last arc to show how it all began.
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Post by VIXENCLAW on Dec 14, 2018 12:40:20 GMT -5
To be honest, I'd like for the Clans to become such a big mess that they disband and become rogues or kittypets or something.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Dec 14, 2018 22:43:04 GMT -5
Would've ended it at TLH for the modern Clans. And had some SE's or Novellas to follow afterwards. Then go back to DOTC arc I feel like that was what the Erins originally planned. Ending the modern clan era at TLH (Like come on the book ended on a note that read as if that was the absolute end of an era, which it was), with Dovewing's Novella and Brambleclaw's SE to show how they're doing post-TLH. And DoTC was a last arc to show how it all began. Tbh the books don't feel the same without Firestar. Like he started the series and it should have ended with him
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Robinstreak
Cats rule. Thank you for coming to my TEDed talk.
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Post by Robinstreak on Dec 25, 2018 20:26:10 GMT -5
While Warriors does eventually have to end- I don't think they'll do it anytime soon. The series is a huge moneymaker and I think the series would be difficult to end while keeping the target demographic. While killing off almost all the Clans would work, the publishers would not publish it. I guess it'll be a while before Warriors ends.
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