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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 16:21:14 GMT -5
What do you think? Was she too hard on Lionblaze and Jayfeather or not?
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Post by kinkajou on Nov 16, 2018 16:28:01 GMT -5
I think she was...although abandoning them in Sunrise was not good When was she hard on Jayfeather?
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Post by Tas on Nov 16, 2018 16:51:11 GMT -5
I think she was fine.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 16, 2018 16:56:41 GMT -5
she was the brains of their group. thats why they made sense as the three. lion- brawns. holly- brains. jay- spirit (aka his starclan stuff)
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Nov 16, 2018 17:40:10 GMT -5
As an older sister myself, I think so. Well except that thing in Sunrise but yeah.
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Post by Maplestone360 on Nov 16, 2018 17:54:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I think she was. She was always supportive of Jayfeather and got mad when cats treated him unfairly for being blind. And even though Lionblaze didn't think so, she was fair to him even when he was meeting Heathertail. She didn't spill his secret to the whole Clan or even threaten to tell if he didn't stop. She just told him to stop.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 17, 2018 10:31:10 GMT -5
Didn't like how she abandoned them and left them to face all the clan heat in the wake of her supposed "death" oof.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Nov 17, 2018 10:40:49 GMT -5
Yeah, she was, imo. Two scenes in particular come to mind: in Outcast, when Jayfeather wanted to find the tunnels again, Hollyleaf was angry and worried at first because of how dangerous it was, but comforted him when she saw how upset he really was about being unable to get back inside. I think she even offered to come with him if he found the tunnels again, because she wanted to protect him and knew he'd go regardless if he discovered a way in, even though the thought terrified her after their near-drowning. Another was a scene (which book it was escapes me right now, but I know they were apprentices) in the apprentices' den. Icecloud and Foxleap were sort of bugging, Lionblaze who was becoming more and more annoyed. Again, Hollyleaf came in and comforted him. As she groomed his fur for him, he drifted off to sleep and felt more relaxed and comfortable by her presence.
I loved the little scenes like that, showing the close bonds between the three of them. Even Lionblaze and Jayfeather had a few good ones, like when Lionblaze admitted to training in the Dark Forest, calling Jayfeather 'Jay' when his brother covered for him and faked like he'd been wounded fighting the fox, and their trek into the tunnels to see if they could find Hollyleaf's body.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 10:46:45 GMT -5
Didn't like how she abandoned them and left them to face all the clan heat in the wake of her supposed "death" oof. Well, she didn't really have much of a choose in the matter, at first at least. Because she's wasn't the one who faked her death, the tunnels collapsing on her was no more than a "happy" accident. She needed to spend a long time physically and mentally recovering. And by the time she could return, her brothers had already accepted her dead and moving on. And she generally thought they were better off without her. And in some ways, you could argue they were, as she'd caused nothing but trouble before she disappeared: Killing Ashfur without telling anyone, letting Sol be brought back in her place, telling the secret at the Gathering and trying to kill Leafpool. If she returned before she was ready, she could just end up starting up her killing spree again. And even if she didn't leave herself, if her crimes been exposed, she would of been exiled anyone. So either way, it doesn't really matter, as she would of ended up leaving regardless.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 19, 2018 14:36:58 GMT -5
Didn't like how she abandoned them and left them to face all the clan heat in the wake of her supposed "death" oof. Well, she didn't really have much of a choose in the matter, at first at least. Because she's wasn't the one who faked her death, the tunnels collapsing on her was no more than a "happy" accident. She needed to spend a long time physically and mentally recovering. And by the time she could return, her brothers had already accepted her dead and moving on. And she generally thought they were better off without her. And in some ways, you could argue they were, as she'd caused nothing but trouble before she disappeared: Killing Ashfur without telling anyone, letting Sol be brought back in her place, telling the secret at the Gathering and trying to kill Leafpool. If she returned before she was ready, she could just end up starting up her killing spree again. And even if she didn't leave herself, if her crimes been exposed, she would of been exiled anyone. So either way, it doesn't really matter, as she would of ended up leaving regardless. She returned on a whim, not by choice because other cats recognized her. She could have returned sooner, much sooner, and face the music, but she didn't. Instead, she let everyone believe she was dead and didn't face the consequences of her actions while Jay and Lion had to deal with everything on their own.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 15:06:58 GMT -5
Well, she didn't really have much of a choose in the matter, at first at least. Because she's wasn't the one who faked her death, the tunnels collapsing on her was no more than a "happy" accident. She needed to spend a long time physically and mentally recovering. And by the time she could return, her brothers had already accepted her dead and moving on. And she generally thought they were better off without her. And in some ways, you could argue they were, as she'd caused nothing but trouble before she disappeared: Killing Ashfur without telling anyone, letting Sol be brought back in her place, telling the secret at the Gathering and trying to kill Leafpool. If she returned before she was ready, she could just end up starting up her killing spree again. And even if she didn't leave herself, if her crimes been exposed, she would of been exiled anyone. So either way, it doesn't really matter, as she would of ended up leaving regardless. She returned on a whim, not by choice because other cats recognized her. She could have returned sooner, much sooner, and face the music, but she didn't. Instead, she let everyone believe she was dead and didn't face the consequences of her actions while Jay and Lion had to deal with everything on their own. What would be the point of returning and facing the consequences? Admitting the whole truth would of meant she'd instantly be sent into exile again, just officially this time. It would of been pointless and a waste of time, making her family go through a tearful reunion, only to instantly reveal she's a murderer and sent away again. Lionblaze and Jayfeather barely suffered at all from their Half-clan exposure. They still had their home and clanmates who still supported them. Specally since it was no deal big to Thunderclan, already having 5+ kittypets, their half outsider kits and forbidden mates/half-clan kits like Greystripe and Stormfur for short time. Hollyleaf suffered way more then her brothers did, not only needing to deal with the knowledge of their origins as well, but leaving in complete isolation for moons on end. Needing to sneak around her own home and watching her clanmates live on without her from a distance. And even then, she was busy serving her Clan: Saving multiple lives and gathering herbs.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 20, 2018 15:17:43 GMT -5
She returned on a whim, not by choice because other cats recognized her. She could have returned sooner, much sooner, and face the music, but she didn't. Instead, she let everyone believe she was dead and didn't face the consequences of her actions while Jay and Lion had to deal with everything on their own. What would be the point of returning and facing the consequences? Admitting the whole truth would of meant she'd instantly be sent into exile again, just officially this time. It would of been pointless and a waste of time, making her family go through a tearful reunion, only to instantly reveal she's a murderer and sent away again. Lionblaze and Jayfeather barely suffered at all from their Half-clan exposure. They still had their home and clanmates who still supported them. Specally since it was no deal big to Thunderclan, already having 5+ kittypets, their half outsider kits and forbidden mates/half-clan kits like Greystripe and Stormfur for short time. Hollyleaf suffered way more then her brothers did, not only needing to deal with the knowledge of their origins as well, but leaving in complete isolation for moons on end. Needing to sneak around her own home and watching her clanmates live on without her from a distance. And even then, she was busy serving her Clan: Saving multiple lives and gathering herbs. Exile isn't the only type of punishment there is, there is no guarantee that would have happened over all the other possibilities. On top of that, it doesn't change a thing. A person can get away with a robbery than still be arrested years later if they're recognized, crimes that are done in the past doesn't just disappear especially if you don't even own up to it. And even when she came back she still had someone that lied for her and covered her tracks thanks to Bramblestar. In a sense, she essentially got away with premeditated murder, just because it was Ashfur, doesn't change that fact. It also doesn't change that she made TC's business into everyone's business then ran off so she didn't have to take the heat alongside her other siblings. She didn't NEED to do any of those things she did, she CHOSE to do it and again could have came back any time, nothing was keeping her away except for her own cowardice. I genuinely enjoy Holly's character, I'm mostly neutral leaning on like, she's also my fav of the three, more like least problematic tbh, but I notice people don't criticize her as much as she should be. I'm not sure if it's bias, but it feels like her actions, mostly on a scale, are overlooked for the "better good".
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Post by Pince on Nov 22, 2018 13:16:17 GMT -5
She did runaway in Sunrise. And she did try to kill Leafpool and did kill Ashfur. And she was a hypocrite. But she was still nice to her brothers and I love her character so my answer is yes.
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anniebobani
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Post by anniebobani on Nov 22, 2018 14:14:02 GMT -5
I don't think she was too hard on them
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