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Post by Redstorm on Nov 15, 2018 18:40:36 GMT -5
Hit word limit, but Hawk means Hawkfrost. They all get one life. Who wins this good vs evil battle?
Bonus points for juicy battle writing and narrative.
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Post by vectoring34 on Nov 15, 2018 19:47:13 GMT -5
Brokenstar's basically deadweight on his team, any one of the three heroic cats would take him to pieces. Bramblestar is Hawkfrost's rough equal and could fight a defensive battle against his father. Graystripe I think is about the same, but he's a little stronger. Firestar is able to go toe to toe with Tigerstar and pull out slightly more wins. So basically, all that happens is that Brokenstar is overpowered in short order and then whoever beat him goes to make it into a 3v2 which quickly swings in favor of the heroes.
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Post by Ligerfrost on Nov 15, 2018 20:09:36 GMT -5
Firestar, Graystripe and Bramblestar would win.
Graystripe in the OS was shown multiple times as a cat who could hold his own to Tigerstar. Firestar gave Brokenstar's problems as an apprentice an Bramblestar can handle Hawkfrost. Brokenstar is all talk and no bite.
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Post by halogen on Nov 15, 2018 22:07:49 GMT -5
Bramblestar is Hawkfrost's rough equal and could fight a defensive battle against his father. How is Bramblestar Hawkfrost's rough equal? Hawkfrost was easily defeating Brambleclaw in the fox trap scene and was only killed due to the convenient fox trap, and you yourself always make such a big deal of how weak and injured and despairing Hawkfrost was at the end of the Dark Forest battle when you are arguing about Ivypool, so I don't get why that wouldn't also apply to Bramblestar killing him there? And Brokenstar is just inconsistent, not necessarily entirely weak. He was able to kill Raggedstar nine times after all and to very easily kill Beetlewhisker, a trained Dark Forest apprentice who noted his training had made him stronger than his Classmates (though by then he had trained in the DF himself), and was killed by Yellowfang who was shown to otherwise be strong (she also beat Blackstar). And then I remember reading the whole debate on this forum of whether he was or was not defeated by Jayfeather, but the point is his strength seems to be written inconsistently and varying and even if he's weaker than the others on this list he's not necessarily a deadweight and could still be a threat. I ended up voting for the villains there not because I'm sure they would win but because I think they have a way higher chance than everyone's giving them credit for here.
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Post by vectoring34 on Nov 15, 2018 22:33:41 GMT -5
Bramblestar is Hawkfrost's rough equal and could fight a defensive battle against his father. How is Bramblestar Hawkfrost's rough equal? Hawkfrost was easily defeating Brambleclaw in the fox trap scene and was only killed due to the convenient fox trap, and you yourself always make such a big deal of how weak and injured and despairing Hawkfrost was at the end of the Dark Forest battle when you are arguing about Ivypool, so I don't get why that wouldn't also apply to Bramblestar killing him there? And Brokenstar is just inconsistent, not necessarily entirely weak. He was able to kill Raggedstar nine times after all and to very easily kill Beetlewhisker, a trained Dark Forest apprentice who noted his training had made him stronger than his Classmates (though by then he had trained in the DF himself), and was killed by Yellowfang who was shown to otherwise be strong (she also beat Blackstar). And then I remember reading the whole debate on this forum of whether he was or was not defeated by Jayfeather, but the point is his strength seems to be written inconsistently and varying and even if he's weaker than the others on this list he's not necessarily a deadweight and could still be a threat. I ended up voting for the villains there not because I'm sure they would win but because I think they have a way higher chance than everyone's giving them credit for here. The fight is not as uneven as you suggest. Hawkfrost did pin Brambleclaw once...but that was after Brambleclaw threw him off and winded him too. If Brambleclaw had been more bloodthirsty, he could have gone right over to finish him since Hawkfrost was stunned long enough for him to pull out the fox trap. Hawkfrost only pinned Brambleclaw after that because Brambleclaw didn't want to fight. He even tells Hawkfrost he doesn't want to hurt him just as Hawkfrost pounces him the second time. Hawkfrost was actually motivated to fight, Brambleclaw was not. It seems that by the time of OOTS though, he's gotten over his issues with killing as he just kills Hawkfrost with a cheap shot to the back. With Brambleclaw's issues over killing gone, I think that given he and Hawkfrost are pretty much juxtaposed as mirrors of each other and don't really have any grand anti-feats to either's names that calling them even is fair. If anything though, Brambleclaw's the stronger of the two so long as he doesn't have any hangups about killing him(which he doesn't as Bramblestar). Killing Raggedstar nine times is nothing special as just killing him once would be enough to incapacitate him and Brokenstar would then be able to just take his sweet time taking out the other eight with no resistance. Plus the method of how that happened is unknown which makes it nigh unusable. He killed Beetlewhisker, but Beetlewhisker's opinion of himself is likely grossly inflated as is the case with many of the Dark Forest apprentices. Take Breezepelt, for example, who also makes lofty claims about how his training is helping him and heaps of praise but in practice is easily slapped to the ground and dragged away by Crowfeather like he's a naughty kit. The Dark Forest training doesn't help all cats, and jobbers like Breezepelt and Beetlewhisker won't magically become that much grander thanks to it. Being killed by Yellowfang isn't a shameful mark so much as how easily it was done and the fact that there were no tricks involved at all. Brokenstar is at least an average warrior, maybe even above average. It's just that just being above average doesn't matter here. It doesn't matter if you're the fastest runner in the state if you want to compete for the Olympics, for example. Brokenstar might be powerful and scary in his own right, but compared to all the others he's fodder and would go down way too fast to make a difference for his team.
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