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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 5, 2018 8:23:49 GMT -5
This is kind of brought up at the end of Moth Flight's Vision.
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Post by Moonblazer on Nov 5, 2018 8:45:14 GMT -5
It annoys me honestly because just because a medicine cat has kits, does not mean that they won’t do their job or care any less for other clanmates. Cats who are deputies and leaders can have kits and keep their rank, but they could also be biased and put other cats in danger rather than their own kits.
While the interclan relationship issues make sense, the medicine cat one does not. Not to mention that it’s clear that the clan raises their kits all together. Daisy and Ferncloud are prime examples, and I bet my bottom dollar that Snowbird helps all the Shadowclan queens seeing how many kits she’s had. The clan can watch the kits while the medicine cats work, and the medicine cats can feed/play with their kits on off hours.
I just find it strange is all.
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Post by Haze on Nov 5, 2018 9:41:31 GMT -5
You can blame Moth Flight for that and her incompetence, remember that she had help too in the medicine department with Reed Tail and with the kittens with that catnip addict cat and she still manages to screw up.
About the worry about putting some cat above the others it's not like medicine cats come from the void, they still have parents and usually siblings.
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Post by mymerlincat on Nov 5, 2018 12:36:34 GMT -5
It’s a good rule, medicine cats need to put their relationship with StarClan and the Clan as a whole above all others. Just the nature of the profession.
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Post by Sundance on Nov 5, 2018 13:23:26 GMT -5
It's the stupidest rule imaginable. :-P I hope they get rid of it at the end of the series when they no longer need it to for dramas sake.
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Post by mymerlincat on Nov 5, 2018 13:26:28 GMT -5
This thread reeks of people who were upset that one of their favorite characters got screwed by it and lost their reputation as a result
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 13:37:13 GMT -5
Pretty much agree with everyone, it’s mentally possible to have enough self control to not be biased in a professional situation. Yes mistakes might happen every once and a while they’re not expected to be perfect but I think they’d do fine.
And like someone said the whole “your clan is your family” just proves that they can- after all they still have parents and siblings. They’re family too. If they can handle choosing between their siblings and non-siblings they can choose between regular clanmates and kits.
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Post by Amber on Nov 5, 2018 14:20:25 GMT -5
Honestly the rule is just plain stupid and there to create drama at this point. Just because a young cat who wasn't ready to be a mother became so, doesn't mean that everyone else in the future will have the same diffculities raising kits like she did.
Anyway I agree with basically everything that was said above. The Clan is supposed to be like one big family already and with there being only one or two medcats at a time, they'll have to operate on their loved ones sometime. Why would a mate or kits be any different? We never see bias with Leafpool when it came to treating her Clan after a battle. I also don't remember Yellowfang trying to heal Brokenstar or Raggedstar first whenever there were warriors with worse injuries. I don't even remember those two trying to heal their parents or littermates first after a battle unless of course they were seriously injured. Even cats who had crushes on others or had some type of non-blood related familial relationship with warriors(Spottedleaf, Yellowfang, Brambleberry)didn't put them above their duties.
Honestly this rule needs to go and should've gone a long time ago. Any argument for keeping it just comes across as silly and ridiclous because there are no good reasons to keep it. It causes uneeded drama and literally is there for no reason other than an ancient medcat had difficulty raising her kits. The connection with StarClan is still in tact and they don't show bias to their loved ones which included their friends and immediate family like littermates and parents.
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Asexual
Mayflower
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I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Nov 5, 2018 14:44:21 GMT -5
Unpopular Opinion incoming, 'cause whenever this topic comes up, I think about it a lot. This is partly me just rambling (as always lol), though.
So...I don't mind this rule.
I don't love that it exists, but if anything, I like it, while dipping toward neutral. I understand that medicine cats are chosen young, and many almost certainly do not understand the full implications of never having a mate or kits, but that's just kinda how it is. That'd also be like getting upset with how the Clans themselves work. Most kits grow to become warriors and they don't really have a choice, either. They have a bit more free freedom than medicine cats, of course, but at the end of the day, they still don't have much of a choice in their lives, either. Kits who become warriors are eager to learn to hunt to feed their Clan and fight fiercely to defend their territory, and play-fight with each other all the time, mimicking that they're warriors already and fighting battles with rival Clans. When they get older, they are technically stuck inside invisible gates (boundary markers) and aren't supposed to leave. They're sort of just as trapped as medicine cats, to some degree. Then you have kits who become medicine cats. They are (usually...barring cats like Jayfeather and Alderheart) eager from the start to find out which herbs work to heal their Clanmates in times of need, they're excited to create a spiritual bond with StarClan and learn how visions and signs work. At least they can technically wander as they please, because hurting one of them is against Clan law. They're seen as peace keepers most of the time and are allowed to visit other Clans as they want, even without good reason; they simply can state "It's medicine cat business" and will almost always be allowed to pass, even if there's reluctance to let them into the territory.
Medicine cats, as we learned with Leafpool, do feel apart from their Clanmates, but not always in the worst ways. She's proud of her bond with StarClan and how close she is to them, and that's why she kept her faith while stuck in those cages and during the journey through the mountains, where some of the warriors' trust in their ancestors faltered and they thought StarClan had abandoned them. Even later, Blackstar and ShadowClan were upset that the "promised land" wasn't like how they imagined, which led them to following Sol. Littlecloud kept his faith, protesting that StarClan was still there. Leafpool and the other medicine cats are almost always steadfast in their trust that the lake was where they were supposed to be, because of their spiritual connection with StarClan, which sets them apart from warriors. We even had scenes with Jayfeather where he feels glee that he holds knowledge and secrets that "regular" warriors like his littermates didn't because of his connection with StarClan and Rock. We see as much with Alderheart a lot of the time, too, and how he felt so useless as a warrior apprentice, but thrives as a medicine cat receiving visions and signs and following StarClan's will. Clans are built around rules surrounding their ranks and ways of life, and different rules for medicine cats and "regular" members like warriors are part of that.
As the readers, we're just seeing an influx of stupidity concerning it because these cats can't control themselves/have no strong will. I'm sure that between the time where the series hasn't been "recorded," other medicine cats broke it, but as it is, we're seeing it back-to-back and getting frustrated with a rule that isn't honestly all that bad to me. I'm really annoyed by so many cats breaking it, too, but if it were something used every once and a while, I wouldn't mind. The drama of it can be avoided if the rule was abolished or edited heavily, yeah, but I like the drama it brings...if it wasn't so overused, that is.
I don't think the rule itself is the problem, tbh. No, you can't help -- to some degree -- who you fall in love with, but you can control yourself. Whether you act on it or not is your own free will. Alderheart did a great job with that in AVOS and so did Cinderpelt in TPB, as well as Featherwhisker, Brambleberry, Barkface, Kestrelflight, Mudfur, Flametail, Willowshine, etc. (well, as far as we know, they didn't fall in love lol). But anyway, far more medicine cats follow the rule than not, and the ones that don't are, imo, the biggest problem.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 5, 2018 14:56:33 GMT -5
i've seen people compare medicine cats to "nuns." nuns can't be with anyone bc they are "with" God and only God. see, im not a religion expert, nor am i religious myself, so feel free to correct me if i have misinformation on nuns.
but medicine cats are not like nuns because starclan are not full of cat gods. starclan is literally just ancestor spirits. the medicine cat and starclan relationship is nothing like how a nun is with God.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2018 14:59:45 GMT -5
i've seen people compare medicine cats to "nuns." nuns can't be with anyone bc they are "with" God and only God. see, im not a religion expert, nor am i religious myself, so feel free to correct me if i have misinformation on nuns. but medicine cats are not like nuns because starclan are not full of cat gods. starclan is literally just ancestor spirits. the medicine cat and starclan relationship is nothing like how a nun is with God. They’re more so like shamans than nuns. Which I’m uncertain if they can have children or not. But media interpretation generally has those portrayals as lacking children anyway.
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Post by wolfcry32 on Nov 5, 2018 18:16:17 GMT -5
See...it would be fine if it wasn’t regularly being used for drama. Most cats start their apprenticeship with this knowledge and are okay with it. Having 4 cats (and their apprentices) decide to pursue this path and sticking to it steadfast no matter what would be awesome.
But instead we have cats who waver and it kind of takes away how sacred and serious the position is supposed to be.
The rule itself isn’t bad, but if the series is just going to trample over it whenever they need D R A M A, they should amend it.
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Post by mymerlincat on Nov 5, 2018 19:24:44 GMT -5
See...it would be fine if it wasn’t regularly being used for drama. Most cats start their apprenticeship with this knowledge and are okay with it. Having 4 cats (and their apprentices) decide to pursue this path and sticking to it steadfast no matter what would be awesome. But instead we have cats who waver and it kind of takes away how sacred and serious the position is supposed to be. The rule itself isn’t bad, but if the series is just going to trample over it whenever they need D R A M A, they should amend it. Almost all drama in the series comes from some cat breaking the warrior or medicine cat code in some form.
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Nov 5, 2018 20:03:36 GMT -5
This here children is why you don’t hear lots of kits saying, “I want to be a medicine cat!!” I always thought this rule was idiotic. The rule should state, “a medicine cat cannot have kits or a mate unless they have a fully trained apprentice that can take over their duties.”
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Post by Amber on Nov 5, 2018 20:11:14 GMT -5
Even without the push for drama the rule in current times still doesn't make sense. It can't be bias because medcats still operate on their friends and immediate family. It can't be due to the trouble of splitting their duties between medicine/StarClan and their family because they have help from their Clan and other queens. Not to mention if a Clan has two fully trained medcats then one can care for the kits while the other does medicine duties. It's also not losing connection with StarClan because Yellowfang and Leafpool could still contact and speak with them after having their kits in secret. It's also not being devoted to StarClan and only them. After all they're still tied to their birth Clans(unless they move Clans) and StarClan is really only there for them to get advice or deliever prophecies.
If the no kits rule is a good rule and has a reason to be there, what is it?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Nov 5, 2018 20:14:14 GMT -5
See...it would be fine if it wasn’t regularly being used for drama. Most cats start their apprenticeship with this knowledge and are okay with it. Having 4 cats (and their apprentices) decide to pursue this path and sticking to it steadfast no matter what would be awesome. But instead we have cats who waver and it kind of takes away how sacred and serious the position is supposed to be. The rule itself isn’t bad, but if the series is just going to trample over it whenever they need D R A M A, they should amend it. To be fair, these cats choose to become medicine cats when they're teenagers. It's no surprise that when they're older and start having feelings, they start to waver. I think it'd be weird if the medicine cats never fell in love or desired to have kids
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Post by halogen on Nov 5, 2018 20:25:52 GMT -5
I don't have. problem with a rule but with the explanation for it, it would make more sense if it was a purely religious thing like with real-life nuns rather than just "they won't be able to take care of their kits while keeping their job!" (even if they have a fully trained apprentice)
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Post by kells on Nov 5, 2018 20:48:48 GMT -5
Let's face it; this rule only exists because Moth Flight was too incompetent to handle her duties
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Post by copperfur on Nov 5, 2018 22:29:44 GMT -5
But if there's three medicine cats, like there is in ThunderClan atm, then the oldest should step down from being a medicine cat so they can become a warrior again. IMO, there should only be two medicine cats at any given time in a Clan.
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Post by kinkajou on Nov 5, 2018 22:34:12 GMT -5
But if there's three medicine cats, like there is in ThunderClan atm, then the oldest should step down from being a medicine cat so they can become a warrior again. IMO, there should only be two medicine cats at any given time in a Clan. Why?
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Post by copperfur on Nov 5, 2018 22:39:46 GMT -5
Three's too many, I believe. I'm sure Leafpool would want more kits if given the opportunity.
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Post by Sundance on Nov 5, 2018 22:40:24 GMT -5
If the no kits rule is a good rule and has a reason to be there, what is it? it's t r a d i t i o n ![](http://ittykitty.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/5.jpg) only reason you ever need amirite ;P
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Post by kinkajou on Nov 5, 2018 22:47:24 GMT -5
Three's too many, I believe. I'm sure Leafpool would want more kits if given the opportunity. But...why? Isn't it better to have more cats able to prevent death from illness or wounds? I think it is a dumb retcon that 3 med cats are suddenly accepted, but there is logic behind having more than two
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Post by Amber on Nov 5, 2018 22:53:52 GMT -5
If the no kits rule is a good rule and has a reason to be there, what is it? it's t r a d i t i o n ![](http://ittykitty.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/5.jpg) only reason you ever need amirite ;PExactly. I mean changing tradition? Why do that?
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Post by chimken nugget on Nov 5, 2018 23:20:22 GMT -5
The rule is fine with me, there are reasons to support it. The only thing is, one of these reasons is that the medicine cat will care more about their mate and kits than the rest of their Clanmates, who may be more seriously injured.
This reason is pointless. A medicine cat will (probably) also care about the rest of their family, including their parents and siblings. There are already cats who they will prioritize. How would having a mate or kits affect that? It’s only a few more cats.
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Post by Brindlefern on Nov 5, 2018 23:24:58 GMT -5
Three's too many, I believe. I'm sure Leafpool would want more kits if given the opportunity. Thunderclan is over 30 if not 40 members rn and good chances are it'll reach 50 if the lack of body count stays low. Do you seriously think just two medicine cats would be able to manage that many cats WITHOUT stretching themselves thin? The more MCs and helpers/assistants, the better and less stressful. Also imo it's more in-character for Leafpool to keep her role, she was not happy being a Warrior in OoTS, and showed to be better and more focused at being a MC than not. Leafpool always wanted to be a Med. Cat and has shown to be dedicated to staying as one even despite her massive screw up, and even after she has not once broken the rules or shown to want to change that. I very much doubt she'd wanna give up being a healer again and I feel it wouldn't be like her to do so at this point.
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Post by Viperstrike on Nov 6, 2018 2:23:40 GMT -5
this rule is why i don't like moth flight. it isn't fair that every medicine cat should be held to the same standards as someone so stupid as her. honestly it doesn't even make sense that she's a medicine cat. someone as dumb as her would be more of a threat as a medicine cat than anything. if she can't even pay attention to her own children how is she going to be able to properly treat injuries or pay close attention to which herbs shes giving out? not to mention medicine cats can have other family members they can prioritize over others. same with leaders, deputies, and honestly any cat to ever exist... this rule is so stupid.
this rule is like saying all brown tabbies are banned from being leader because brokenstar and tigerstar was evil.
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