Asexual
Mayflower
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I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Sept 29, 2018 9:09:26 GMT -5
It felt forced to you. It didn’t feel forced to me. Yeah, Breezepelt doesn’t deserve scott free forgiveness. But he didn’t really get that from his clan. Most of them clearly did not and will not forgive him anytime soon. Onestar’s not a Thunderclan leader. Windclan is probably different in terms of who they think is loyal and deserving of exile or not. I’m not aiming to change your mind because I don’t really care about changing minds, I’m just saying that I didn’t feel like it was forced for me. I was actually just about to say that the most "forced" part of the book for me wasn't Breezepelt's pretense of "only wanting to serve his Clan" or whatever, but instead the way that the rest of WindClan acted like complete jerks in this book for no good reason. It defied logic how much random background cats like Gorsetail or Leaftail did ridiculous things like wondering if Breezepelt left his mother behind to die (yeah, sure, the one cat that he actually likes, he definitely left her behind to die) or saying that all of the Dark Forest trainees, not just Breezepelt, couldn't be trusted. The book got a lot of mileage out of making Breezepelt appear to be a victim by having the cats who were the actual victims of his treachery suddenly turn into unlikeable morons. To be honest, I thought that was actually one of the more accurate portrayals. I think his redemption was well written, but one thing that stood out to me was the blame game. The way I saw it was this: if I knew there was a known murderer (who got away, even with plenty of evidence and reliable eye witnesses) at a family reunion that's set for everyone to spend time together on a vacation for a couple weeks, if everything went to hell, the first person I'm instinctively looking at is him. As things steadily get worse, the more suspicious I get -- especially if it involves someone disappearing and no body is recovered, when he was the last known person with them, even if it was his biggest supporter. Is he innocent? Perhaps. But his track record sure does leave a lot to be desired. The more stuff that keeps happening, the more uncertain I'd become about whether he has motive (because he did before, even for twisted reasons; who's to say he didn't come up with a reason that only made sense to him?) or not. I think they had good reason to be jerks and talk crap about him.
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Post by briarfrost on Sept 29, 2018 9:35:29 GMT -5
I was actually just about to say that the most "forced" part of the book for me wasn't Breezepelt's pretense of "only wanting to serve his Clan" or whatever, but instead the way that the rest of WindClan acted like complete jerks in this book for no good reason. It defied logic how much random background cats like Gorsetail or Leaftail did ridiculous things like wondering if Breezepelt left his mother behind to die (yeah, sure, the one cat that he actually likes, he definitely left her behind to die) or saying that all of the Dark Forest trainees, not just Breezepelt, couldn't be trusted. The book got a lot of mileage out of making Breezepelt appear to be a victim by having the cats who were the actual victims of his treachery suddenly turn into unlikeable morons. To be honest, I thought that was actually one of the more accurate portrayals. I think his redemption was well written, but one thing that stood out to me was the blame game. The way I saw it was this: if I knew there was a known murderer (who got away, even with plenty of evidence and reliable eye witnesses) at a family reunion that's set for everyone to spend time together on a vacation for a couple weeks, if everything went to hell, the first person I'm instinctively looking at is him. As things steadily get worse, the more suspicious I get -- especially if it involves someone disappearing and no body is recovered, when he was the last known person with them, even if it was his biggest supporter. Is he innocent? Perhaps. But his track record sure does leave a lot to be desired. The more stuff that keeps happening, the more uncertain I'd become about whether he has motive (because he did before, even for twisted reasons; who's to say he didn't come up with a reason that only made sense to him?) or not. I think they had good reason to be jerks and talk crap about him. ^ He fully deserved their suspicion. Does it suck for him, that someone he always loved and always loved him disappeared and now he's blamed for it? Oh, definitely. But it's only been a month, he doesn't have a great track record, and he's not making a case for himself (not by refusing to show at the vigil, that's understandable, but by snapping about how he doesn't care about Kestrelflight's vision or yelling that he doesn't need anyone in WindClan). Also, in an out-of-book sense, 'excessive suffering' is a key step in the redemption process. Honestly, his redemption is pretty good. He's blamed and mistrusted, he's still not fully accepted by everyone at the end, he goes through a lot of pain (emotional and physical), he acknowledges his wrongdoings, and he works to make up for them, not just to WindClan but even to Lionblaze. I definitely wouldn't say he had it easy.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 29, 2018 11:00:11 GMT -5
The idea that a sadistic killer wouldn't kill a loved one is absurd. What goes on in the mind of a bad person can often be illogical. Not to bring up Godwin's Law or anything, but there are certain bad people in history who murdered their loved ones either due to some misguided belief that it was better for them. Uncontrollable rage has also been a factor in this sort of thing.
Breezepelt killing his mother would be perfectly believable to me. His clanmates speculating it happened isn't odd at all when you consider what a monster he was. Breezepelt only failed at murder because he was inept at fighting, not due to lack of trying or delight in the task. Trying to act as though he was just someone with anger issues is going too far. He took twisted pleasure in hurting others.
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Bisexual
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Official Queen of Fan Clans
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ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
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Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 29, 2018 11:06:50 GMT -5
Tigerstar was willing to kill his own son if he had gotten his way because Brambleclaw didn't comply. Hawkfrost was willing to kill Brambleclaw if he could, possibly even Mothwing if she protested and gave up her rank. Brokenstar killed Raggedstar.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 11:18:18 GMT -5
The idea that a sadistic killer wouldn't kill a loved one is absurd. What goes on in the mind of a bad person can often be illogical. Not to bring up Godwin's Law or anything, but there are certain bad people in history who murdered their loved ones either due to some misguided belief that it was better for them. Uncontrollable rage has also been a factor in this sort of thing. Breezepelt killing his mother would be perfectly believable to me. His clanmates speculating it happened isn't odd at all when you consider what a monster he was. Breezepelt only failed at murder because he was inept at fighting, not due to lack of trying or delight in the task. Trying to act as though he was just someone with anger issues is going too far. He took twisted pleasure in hurting others. And that's why his redemption feels forced. Breezepelt clearly wanted to kill cats from his own family; he was happy when Hollyleaf died. He wanted Lionblaze dead to punish him for being born when it wasn't even his fault. His goal was to hurt others for the sake of his own satisfaction. Why should he all the sudden care for the code and his Clanmates? He said so himself once; his own clanmates tried to get rid of him as an apprentince. His first original goal was to get revenge on Crowfeather. I don't understand why people can't see that this redemption is forced. He was willing to go as far as killing a pregnant cat to frame his brother. Jayfeather told him he understood how he felt, but Breezepelt didn't care. He wanted everyone dead for his own satisfaction due to daddy problems.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 29, 2018 11:36:57 GMT -5
In terms of doing horrible things a loved one, the best case study is Ashfur. He loved Squirrelflight, but he also wanted to torture her and see her suffer. For all Windclan knew, Breezepelt could have been the same. He's shown a history of instability and sadism, so as a thought it doesn't seem out there that maybe Nightcloud offended him in some fashion and his reaction is less than measured.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 11:39:08 GMT -5
In terms of doing horrible things a loved one, the best case study is Ashfur. He loved Squirrelflight, but he also wanted to torture her and see her suffer. For all Windclan knew, Breezepelt could have been the same. He's shown a history of instability and sadism, so as a thought it doesn't seem out there that maybe Nightcloud offended him in some fashion and his reaction is less than measured. If this were real life, Heathertail and her daughters would probably be separated from Breezepelt for their safety. Honestly, I'm surprised Heathertail was willing to become mates with Breezepelt after she found out he was willing to kill his entire family. Is she not concerned about her own safety if she becomes his mate? Especially considering she already has bad experiences with violent lovers like Lionblaze trying to kill her and her mentor. Or even their possible kits? Considering Breezepelt's uprising and by himself just being a horrible person - The Abused child often become the abusive parent. I find it's unbelievable he would be a good parent. I'm expecting him to worse then Crowfeather.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 11:52:47 GMT -5
The idea that a sadistic killer wouldn't kill a loved one is absurd. What goes on in the mind of a bad person can often be illogical. Not to bring up Godwin's Law or anything, but there are certain bad people in history who murdered their loved ones either due to some misguided belief that it was better for them. Uncontrollable rage has also been a factor in this sort of thing. Breezepelt killing his mother would be perfectly believable to me. His clanmates speculating it happened isn't odd at all when you consider what a monster he was. Breezepelt only failed at murder because he was inept at fighting, not due to lack of trying or delight in the task. Trying to act as though he was just someone with anger issues is going too far. He took twisted pleasure in hurting others. And that's why his redemption feels forced. Breezepelt clearly wanted to kill cats from his own family; he was happy when Hollyleaf died. He wanted Lionblaze dead to punish him for being born when it wasn't even his fault. His goal was to hurt others for the sake of his own satisfaction. Why should he all the sudden care for the code and his Clanmates? He said so himself once; his own clanmates tried to get rid of him as an apprentince. His first original goal was to get revenge on Crowfeather. I don't understand why people can't see that this redemption is forced. He was willing to go as far as killing a pregnant cat to frame his brother. Jayfeather told him he understood how he felt, but Breezepelt didn't care. He wanted everyone dead for his own satisfaction due to daddy problems. Wouldn’t every redemption be forced though? In CT we see Breezepelt working to better himself and his choices. He and Lionblaze work to see eachother with more respect. Breezepelt fights for his clan and for both of his parents against the stouts. No matter what he did in the past, he still worked towards doing something better in the future. Hate it all you want, but all redemption arcs are different, but none felt forced to me. Not every redemption is 100 percent turning a horrible person into a grade A hero. Breezepelt still has emotional issues. He is still snappy and he is still angry, but he clearly no longer desires to kill his half-siblings and clearly was able to work with Crowfeather to understand eachother. That in itself is someone who at least is trying. He isn’t going around crying for forgiveness. You want to get mad at the forced forgiveness thing, get mad at Onestar. Breezepelt did awful things. But so did Blackstar, so did Clear Sky, so did Hollyleaf, so did Needletail, so did plenty of other cats. That’s why I’m alright and even preferring Breezepelt’s redemption. Because he really has not gotten away with jack in terms of his clanmate’s opinions of him. They blamed him for his mother’s “death” and I actually loved that part because it showed that Windclan had no sympathy or forgiveness for him besides Onestar and his mother. Crowfeather himself was inwardly thinking he may be better off dead. It showed me that his forgiveness wasn’t much forgiveness at all. And even so, Breezepelt at least tried to do things to show his worth. He refused to give up on his mother and clanmate. He clearly shows care for Heathertail. He fights at Lionblaze’s side but it is not warm and brotherly. They are at a mutual understanding in the heat of battle. Jayfeather only gives the herb because of his moral code, not because he cared any for Breezepelt. Windclan still does not show true forgiveness to Breezepelt even near the end of the book. Seriously, compared to alot of redemption, Breezepelt’s really isn’t that awful at all. Again, this is a matter of perspective and I’m not aiming to change minds, I’m just stating how people like me might not feel like this is forced or bad.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 11:57:59 GMT -5
In terms of doing horrible things a loved one, the best case study is Ashfur. He loved Squirrelflight, but he also wanted to torture her and see her suffer. For all Windclan knew, Breezepelt could have been the same. He's shown a history of instability and sadism, so as a thought it doesn't seem out there that maybe Nightcloud offended him in some fashion and his reaction is less than measured. If this were real life, Heathertail and her daughters would probably be separated from Breezepelt for their safety. Honestly, I'm surprised Heathertail was willing to become mates with Breezepelt after she found out he was willing to kill his entire family. Is she not concerned about her own safety if she becomes his mate? Especially considering she already has bad experiences with violent lovers like Lionblaze trying to kill her and her mentor. Or even their possible kits? Considering Breezepelt's uprising and by himself just being a horrible person - The Abused child often become the abusive parent. I find it's unbelievable he would be a good parent. I'm expecting him to worse then Crowfeather. Or, the abused child chooses to never let their kids feel the awful feelings they felt from a bad parent. He didn’t see the Three as his family, and while he was wrong for desiring to kill them, he obviously never attacked Crowfeather or Nightcloud, who are his full blooded and actual family, even if he had animosity towards Crowfeather. Hollyleaf tried to murder Leafpool with angry and rage filled intent by wanting her to swallow deathberries. If she had lived, should she get seperated from her family? If she had kits and had desired to kill her mother in the past, does she not deserve to raise her kits?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 12:02:26 GMT -5
If this were real life, Heathertail and her daughters would probably be separated from Breezepelt for their safety. Honestly, I'm surprised Heathertail was willing to become mates with Breezepelt after she found out he was willing to kill his entire family. Is she not concerned about her own safety if she becomes his mate? Especially considering she already has bad experiences with violent lovers like Lionblaze trying to kill her and her mentor. Or even their possible kits? Considering Breezepelt's uprising and by himself just being a horrible person - The Abused child often become the abusive parent. I find it's unbelievable he would be a good parent. I'm expecting him to worse then Crowfeather. Or, the abused child chooses to never let their kids feel the awful feelings they felt from a bad parent. He didn’t see the Three as his family, and while he was wrong for desiring to kill them, he obviously never attacked Crowfeather or Nightcloud, who are his full blooded and actual family, even if he had animosity towards Crowfeather. Hollyleaf tried to murder Leafpool with angry and rage filled intent by wanting her to swallow deathberries. If she had lived, should she get seperated from her family? If she had kits and had desired to kill her mother in the past, does she not deserve to raise her kits? Yes. No killer of innocent family members deserve to raise children.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 29, 2018 12:06:57 GMT -5
If this were real life, Heathertail and her daughters would probably be separated from Breezepelt for their safety. Honestly, I'm surprised Heathertail was willing to become mates with Breezepelt after she found out he was willing to kill his entire family. Is she not concerned about her own safety if she becomes his mate? Especially considering she already has bad experiences with violent lovers like Lionblaze trying to kill her and her mentor. Or even their possible kits? Considering Breezepelt's uprising and by himself just being a horrible person - The Abused child often become the abusive parent. I find it's unbelievable he would be a good parent. I'm expecting him to worse then Crowfeather. Or, the abused child chooses to never let their kids feel the awful feelings they felt from a bad parent. He didn’t see the Three as his family, and while he was wrong for desiring to kill them, he obviously never attacked Crowfeather or Nightcloud, who are his full blooded and actual family, even if he had animosity towards Crowfeather. Hollyleaf tried to murder Leafpool with angry and rage filled intent by wanting her to swallow deathberries. If she had lived, should she get seperated from her family? If she had kits and had desired to kill her mother in the past, does she not deserve to raise her kits? To be fair, Hollyleaf is several degrees removed from Breezepelt. Breezepelt failed only due to his incompetence, Hollyleaf just flat out didn't have the nerve. That being said the "abused child inevitably is abusive parent" thing is a super bad take.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 12:07:34 GMT -5
Or, the abused child chooses to never let their kids feel the awful feelings they felt from a bad parent. He didn’t see the Three as his family, and while he was wrong for desiring to kill them, he obviously never attacked Crowfeather or Nightcloud, who are his full blooded and actual family, even if he had animosity towards Crowfeather. Hollyleaf tried to murder Leafpool with angry and rage filled intent by wanting her to swallow deathberries. If she had lived, should she get seperated from her family? If she had kits and had desired to kill her mother in the past, does she not deserve to raise her kits? Yes. No killer of innocent family members deserve to raise children. That’s really perspective based. I can’t say I agree with the complex situations surrounding that aspect.
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Post by briarfrost on Sept 29, 2018 12:19:29 GMT -5
The idea that a sadistic killer wouldn't kill a loved one is absurd. What goes on in the mind of a bad person can often be illogical. Not to bring up Godwin's Law or anything, but there are certain bad people in history who murdered their loved ones either due to some misguided belief that it was better for them. Uncontrollable rage has also been a factor in this sort of thing. Breezepelt killing his mother would be perfectly believable to me. His clanmates speculating it happened isn't odd at all when you consider what a monster he was. Breezepelt only failed at murder because he was inept at fighting, not due to lack of trying or delight in the task. Trying to act as though he was just someone with anger issues is going too far. He took twisted pleasure in hurting others. And that's why his redemption feels forced. Breezepelt clearly wanted to kill cats from his own family; he was happy when Hollyleaf died. He wanted Lionblaze dead to punish him for being born when it wasn't even his fault. His goal was to hurt others for the sake of his own satisfaction. Why should he all the sudden care for the code and his Clanmates? He said so himself once; his own clanmates tried to get rid of him as an apprentince. His first original goal was to get revenge on Crowfeather. I don't understand why people can't see that this redemption is forced. He was willing to go as far as killing a pregnant cat to frame his brother. Jayfeather told him he understood how he felt, but Breezepelt didn't care. He wanted everyone dead for his own satisfaction due to daddy problems. Just because you think someone doesn't deserve a redemption, does not mean said redemption is forced. Again, he doesn't get forgiven by most of his Clan, he actively admits he was wrong, and he actively works to make up for it. He wanted to kill cats from his own family whom he hated--he never wanted to hurt Nightcloud, who he loved. Inconsistent as he was in OotS, that was consistent. It's perfectly conceivable he might have decided to stay in WindClan so he could be with his mother. Or even sheer survival. And like...he still doesn't seem to care much for his Clanmates personally. I can count on one hand the number of cats he's on good terms with who aren't his parents or his mate--no one. Maybe Emberfoot? Yeah, potentially one cat. He's certainly not getting buddy-buddy with them, but he is working with them for the sake of the few he does love. The code he cares about because he's realized he was wrong and should work to protect it, so that's for the sake of atonement.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 12:36:20 GMT -5
And that's why his redemption feels forced. Breezepelt clearly wanted to kill cats from his own family; he was happy when Hollyleaf died. He wanted Lionblaze dead to punish him for being born when it wasn't even his fault. His goal was to hurt others for the sake of his own satisfaction. Why should he all the sudden care for the code and his Clanmates? He said so himself once; his own clanmates tried to get rid of him as an apprentince. His first original goal was to get revenge on Crowfeather. I don't understand why people can't see that this redemption is forced. He was willing to go as far as killing a pregnant cat to frame his brother. Jayfeather told him he understood how he felt, but Breezepelt didn't care. He wanted everyone dead for his own satisfaction due to daddy problems. Just because you think someone doesn't deserve a redemption, does not mean said redemption is forced. Again, he doesn't get forgiven by most of his Clan, he actively admits he was wrong, and he actively works to make up for it. He wanted to kill cats from his own family whom he hated--he never wanted to hurt Nightcloud, who he loved. Inconsistent as he was in OotS, that was consistent. It's perfectly conceivable he might have decided to stay in WindClan so he could be with his mother. Or even sheer survival. And like...he still doesn't seem to care much for his Clanmates personally. I can count on one hand the number of cats he's on good terms with who aren't his parents or his mate--no one. Maybe Emberfoot? Yeah, potentially one cat. He's certainly not getting buddy-buddy with them, but he is working with them for the sake of the few he does love. The code he cares about because he's realized he was wrong and should work to protect it, so that's for the sake of atonement. Again, that's your opinion. Not gonna change my mind.
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Post by Basement Cat on Sept 29, 2018 12:41:01 GMT -5
This topic is a train wreck.
In my opinion, Breezepelt got away scott free. And I am annoyed they didn't address the fact he tried to kill Poppyfrost, a pregnant queen. Or the fact he joined the Dark Forest because he hated his father had half Clan kits. Or the fact he almost attacked his own WindClan clanmates before Ivypool stopped him.
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Post by briarfrost on Sept 29, 2018 12:46:55 GMT -5
Just because you think someone doesn't deserve a redemption, does not mean said redemption is forced. Again, he doesn't get forgiven by most of his Clan, he actively admits he was wrong, and he actively works to make up for it. He wanted to kill cats from his own family whom he hated--he never wanted to hurt Nightcloud, who he loved. Inconsistent as he was in OotS, that was consistent. It's perfectly conceivable he might have decided to stay in WindClan so he could be with his mother. Or even sheer survival. And like...he still doesn't seem to care much for his Clanmates personally. I can count on one hand the number of cats he's on good terms with who aren't his parents or his mate--no one. Maybe Emberfoot? Yeah, potentially one cat. He's certainly not getting buddy-buddy with them, but he is working with them for the sake of the few he does love. The code he cares about because he's realized he was wrong and should work to protect it, so that's for the sake of atonement. Again, that's your opinion. Not gonna change my mind. Then why consistently make posts about it? These kind of posts just invite discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 12:48:09 GMT -5
This topic is a train wreck. In my opinion, Breezepelt got away scott free. And I am annoyed they didn't address the fact he tried to kill Poppyfrost, a pregnant queen. Or the fact he joined the Dark Forest because he hated his father had half Clan kits. Or the fact he almost attacked his own WindClan clanmates before Ivypool stopped him. Yup. Every other damn villain never got away with it; they were all punished, whether it was the directed by the victim or not. I stopped feeling sorry for this monster the moment he wanted to kill Poppyfrost. An innocent queen, who was weak and defenseless and had nothing to do with Breezepelt or his family. I don't blame Jayfeather for hating Breezepelt. Has every damn right to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 12:49:46 GMT -5
Again, that's your opinion. Not gonna change my mind. Then why consistently make posts about it? These kind of posts just invite discussion. Because I can talk about the book if I want to? I even stated in my post I'm not changing my mind, but that's not going to stop me from not making posts. I don't care if people like Breezepelt or whatever it's not going to affect my life lol. I really don't want to talk about this specific conversation so let's just end it here
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 14:21:58 GMT -5
I just realised something- Isn't it really messed how Onestar would go out of his way to pressure his clanmates into forgiving the Trainees, including the mass murdering Breezepelt - To the point, he'd let them off scot-free and even make one deputy. But then he goes onto exile Crowfeather, when he rightfully pointing out how stupid his plan was and hasn't touched murder with a 50ft pole.
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Post by Brindlefern on Sept 29, 2018 14:24:17 GMT -5
I just realised something- Isn't it really messed how Onestar would go out of his way to pressure his clanmates into forgiving the Trainees, including the mass murdering Breezepelt - That he wouldn't punish any of them and even make one deputy. But then he goes onto exile Crowfeather, when he rightfully pointing out how stupid his plan was and hasn't touched murder with a 50ft pole. That's because Onestar is messed up and stupid in a backwards way in general.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 14:35:34 GMT -5
This topic is a train wreck. In my opinion, Breezepelt got away scott free. And I am annoyed they didn't address the fact he tried to kill Poppyfrost, a pregnant queen. Or the fact he joined the Dark Forest because he hated his father had half Clan kits. Or the fact he almost attacked his own WindClan clanmates before Ivypool stopped him. Yup. Every other damn villain never got away with it; they were all punished, whether it was the directed by the victim or not. I stopped feeling sorry for this monster the moment he wanted to kill Poppyfrost. An innocent queen, who was weak and defenseless and had nothing to do with Breezepelt or his family. I don't blame Jayfeather for hating Breezepelt. Has every damn right to. Blackstar got away with it. Needletail got away with it. Nobody blamed either of them after all their awful actions. Hollyleaf got away with it. Villian or not, good or bad, plenty of cats got away with their actions, even if they died. Nobody blamed these cats, where as cats are still openly hating Breezepelt, so he got away with it far less, really. Nobody is blaming anyone for hating Breezepelt lol. It would be unrealistic if they didn’t. But plenty of other cats got away with their crap long before Breezepelt came into play.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 14:53:52 GMT -5
Yup. Every other damn villain never got away with it; they were all punished, whether it was the directed by the victim or not. I stopped feeling sorry for this monster the moment he wanted to kill Poppyfrost. An innocent queen, who was weak and defenseless and had nothing to do with Breezepelt or his family. I don't blame Jayfeather for hating Breezepelt. Has every damn right to. Blackstar got away with it. Needletail got away with it. Nobody blamed either of them after all their awful actions. Hollyleaf got away with it. Villian or not, good or bad, plenty of cats got away with their actions, even if they died. Nobody blamed these cats, where as cats are still openly hating Breezepelt, so he got away with it far less, really. Nobody is blaming anyone for hating Breezepelt lol. It would be unrealistic if they didn’t. But plenty of other cats got away with their crap long before Breezepelt came into play. I can't speak for Blackstar but Needletail didn't get away with it, and you're comparing her to someone who wanted to kill while she didn't. She just simply hated the rules so I don't know why you compared them lol. And she was pretty unpopular among the clans after she died. Nobody except Violetshine or Alderheart really cared that she died. Needletail ended her own life by sacrificing herself. She didn't get away with it. Hollyleaf was punished. She exiled herself and cats didn't trust her either. She worked her ass off to earn their trust back. In the end she lost her life saving Ivypool. The cats you compare to Breezepelt have completely different situations. If you're gonna compare him to anyone then compare Breezepelt to Darktail since both cats were rejected by their dads and became villains because of it.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 14:56:08 GMT -5
Blackstar got away with it. Needletail got away with it. Nobody blamed either of them after all their awful actions. Hollyleaf got away with it. Villian or not, good or bad, plenty of cats got away with their actions, even if they died. Nobody blamed these cats, where as cats are still openly hating Breezepelt, so he got away with it far less, really. Nobody is blaming anyone for hating Breezepelt lol. It would be unrealistic if they didn’t. But plenty of other cats got away with their crap long before Breezepelt came into play. I can't speak for Blackstar but Needletail didn't get away with it, and you're comparing her to someone who wanted to kill while she didn't. She just simply hated the rules so I don't know why you compared them lol. And she was pretty unpopular among the clans after she died. Nobody except Violetshine or Alderheart really cared that she died. Needletail ended her own life by sacrificing herself. She didn't get away with it. Hollyleaf was punished. She exiled herself and cats didn't trust her either. She worked her ass off to earn their trust back. In the end she lost her life saving Ivypool. The cats you compare to Breezepelt have completely different situations. If you're gonna compare him to anyone then compare Breezepelt to Darktail since both cats were rejected by their dads and became villains because of it. All I’m saying is that Breezepelt is not the only cat to comit awful deeds and “get away with it”, and he won’t be. But compared to Blackstar and Needletail and Clear Sky and plenty of others, the fact that he is trying to do good things and is trying to work with cats he once refused to shows that he has better potential than many others.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 15:05:27 GMT -5
I can't speak for Blackstar but Needletail didn't get away with it, and you're comparing her to someone who wanted to kill while she didn't. She just simply hated the rules so I don't know why you compared them lol. And she was pretty unpopular among the clans after she died. Nobody except Violetshine or Alderheart really cared that she died. Needletail ended her own life by sacrificing herself. She didn't get away with it. Hollyleaf was punished. She exiled herself and cats didn't trust her either. She worked her ass off to earn their trust back. In the end she lost her life saving Ivypool. The cats you compare to Breezepelt have completely different situations. If you're gonna compare him to anyone then compare Breezepelt to Darktail since both cats were rejected by their dads and became villains because of it. All I’m saying is that Breezepelt is not the only cat to comit awful deeds and “get away with it”, and he won’t be. But compared to Blackstar and Needletail and Clear Sky and plenty of others, the fact that he is trying to do good things and is trying to work with cats he once refused to shows that he has better potential than many others. No these cats never got away with it. Skystar pratically lost his whole family and many cats hated him for what he did. Tawnypelt thought of Needletail as a traitor and Rowanstar is pissed at her too. Nobody cared about her except Violetshine and Alderheart. Let's not also forget she was betrayed by both Sleekwhisker and possibly Rain. Hollyleaf only got away with it because Bramble defended her, and she would've likely been punished had he not spoken up. Do you not remember the reaction the clan gave her when she confessed to killing Ashfur? Everyone was angry and horrified. She still lived with the guilt until she died too. Breezepelt was rewarded with a family and Crowfeather ended up working hard for him. Breezepelt just did "dangerous tasks". That's it. He didn't have to work hard to prove himself; Crowfeather did. Everyone talked shit about how he needed to be an example for him so his clanmates would forgive him. Everyone pressured him into bonding with his son. Onestar's stupid excuse into keeping Breezepelt was that he only attacked a ThunderClan cat. Breezepelt wanted to kill a pregnant queen, a blind medicine cat, his father, and his half siblings. If this was real life he would've been in jail for the rest of his life. Needletail lost her life. Hollyleaf lost her life. Darktail was killed by Onestar. Mapleshade was murdered by Perchpaw. Tigerstar (original) was murdered and had all of his nine lives taken away at once by Scourge. Brokenstar was poisoned by his own mother. Every villain who has killed or did bad things never got away with it. Breezepelt wasn't even exiled.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 29, 2018 15:17:13 GMT -5
All I’m saying is that Breezepelt is not the only cat to comit awful deeds and “get away with it”, and he won’t be. But compared to Blackstar and Needletail and Clear Sky and plenty of others, the fact that he is trying to do good things and is trying to work with cats he once refused to shows that he has better potential than many others. No these cats never got away with it. Skystar pratically lost his whole family and many cats hated him for what he did. Tawnypelt thought of Needletail as a traitor and Rowanstar is pissed at her too. Nobody cared about her except Violetshine and Alderheart. Let's not also forget she was betrayed by both Sleekwhisker and possibly Rain. Hollyleaf only got away with it because Bramble defended her, and she would've likely been punished had he not spoken up. Do you not remember the reaction the clan gave her when she confessed to killing Ashfur? Everyone was angry and horrified. She still lived with the guilt until she died too. Breezepelt was rewarded with a family and Crowfeather ended up working hard for him. Breezepelt just did "dangerous tasks". That's it. He didn't have to work hard to prove himself; Crowfeather did. Everyone talked shit about how he needed to be an example for him so his clanmates would forgive him. Everyone pressured him into bonding with his son. Onestar's stupid excuse into keeping Breezepelt was that he only attacked a ThunderClan cat. Breezepelt wanted to kill a pregnant queen, a blind medicine cat, his father, and his half siblings. If this was real life he would've been in jail for the rest of his life. Needletail lost her life. Hollyleaf lost her life. Darktail was killed by Onestar. Mapleshade was murdered by Perchpaw. Tigerstar (original) was murdered and had all of his nine lives taken away at once by Scourge. Brokenstar was poisoned by his own mother. Every villain who has killed or did bad things never got away with it. Breezepelt wasn't even exiled. Breezepelt was openly hated and insulted by nearly all of his clanmates, Crowfeather even thinking that he didn’t blame his clan for wishing death upon Breezepelt. His clan blames him for his mother’s death, you know, the only cat he openly and clearly showed love to. He’s wished death upon when facing the stouts that he believed murdered the only cat he believed actually loved him, no thanks to Crowfeather’s blatant and canon lack of affection and presence in his life, Jayfeather considers refusing to give the herb that can save Breezepelt’s life, cats at the gathering desire for Breezepelt to take on the Stoats alone which would result in eminent death, which he agreed to anyway for the sake of his mother and his clan. That’s way more cats than two hating him and calling him a traitor, right? Also, the Jay and Poppy thing was never brought up because literally nobody but those three knew about that. When did Jayfeather ever bring that up? Shouldn’t he have if they wanted Breezepelt really punished? And who are Windclan to believe any Thunderclan claims when the two clans were clearly at bad odds with eachother? Of course nobody’s going to bring that up because nobody else in Windclan knew about it. Honestly if he was exiled would that really even be worse than what’s going on in CT? If he was exiled, Nightcloud would most likely follow him and he wouldn’t have cats hating him and surrounding him. If he truly gave 0 craps about Windclan how would that be punishment if he was simply told to go off where he could be free to do anything he wanted with the support of the only cat who openly showed any care for him? Isn’t this a more fitting punishment besides death? To be openly hated, insulted, never trusted, and desired to be slaughtered by your own clan?
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Rainbow
Pandean
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_silver.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_silver.png)
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 30, 2018 1:56:40 GMT -5
I just realised something- Isn't it really messed how Onestar would go out of his way to pressure his clanmates into forgiving the Trainees, including the mass murdering Breezepelt - To the point, he'd let them off scot-free and even make one deputy. But then he goes onto exile Crowfeather, when he rightfully pointing out how stupid his plan was and hasn't touched murder with a 50ft pole. Onestar in general is just trash. He's just....not very good at his job. Heck I think Mudclaw might've been better. Tallstar's prob up in StarClan constantly screaming NO NO YOU IDIOT THIS IS NOT WHY I CHOSE YOU
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 1, 2018 4:48:31 GMT -5
I just realised something- Isn't it really messed how Onestar would go out of his way to pressure his clanmates into forgiving the Trainees, including the mass murdering Breezepelt - To the point, he'd let them off scot-free and even make one deputy. But then he goes onto exile Crowfeather, when he rightfully pointing out how stupid his plan was and hasn't touched murder with a 50ft pole. Onestar in general is just trash. He's just....not very good at his job. Heck I think Mudclaw might've been better. Tallstar's prob up in StarClan constantly screaming NO NO YOU IDIOT THIS IS NOT WHY I CHOSE YOU Well, Tallstar is also a stubborn moron, apparently in one of his short stories he's too stubborn to admit he chose wrong. Also in another short story, Onestar meets him in a dream and then attacked him, and then Tallstar is like, I've chosen right after all blah blah blah. Honestly, I used to really love Tallstar, but his later time as a leader into his time in StarClan, shows him being an idiot almost as much as Crookedstar. Rather ironic he chose Onestar to be leader based off his friendship with Firestar, and nothing else really.
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