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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 11:36:21 GMT -5
After rereading AVoS, she honestly isn't that bad. I haven't read Darkest Night yet, but I've at least read up until her death, and I don't think she's that bad. I won't forgive Needletail for bullying Rowanstar and controlling Violetshine, but she's not so bad to deserve the Dark Forest. The reason why I changed my mind about her is that she admitted to her own mistakes. That takes a lot of guts, too, to let go of your pride and admit that you were wrong.
Now, this doesn't mean I like her. I still don't like her as a character, but.. she really isn't that bad, if she admitted to her own mistakes. StarClan made the right choice to give her a second chance, and this shows to me that I don't think that she deserves the Dark Forest. I have forgotten about this. Admitting to your own mistakes shows maturity, and I think she deserves a second chance. This shows that she's grown to realize that she messed up, and she made it up for it when she gave her own life to save Violetpaw.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 17, 2018 11:55:42 GMT -5
I would have believed and accepted this if she didn’t go right back around and blame Rowanstar for everything when she died. She lost any chance at redeeming herself to me when she pulled that crap. If she’s in Starclan, make her like Ashfur, shut her big mouth up, and never force me to read about her ugh
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 17, 2018 14:16:08 GMT -5
She'd be more redeemable if she wasn't still trash talking Rowanstar in StarClan and downplaying her part in things
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 17, 2018 14:22:46 GMT -5
i have always liked needletail. she wasn't that bad to me.
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Post by Brindlefern on Sept 17, 2018 14:36:02 GMT -5
She'd be more redeemable if she wasn't still trash talking Rowanstar in StarClan and downplaying her part in things Yeah the moment I saw her acting the way she did in Starclan I was like "WHY ARE YOU HERE???"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 19:24:54 GMT -5
Bump.
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Post by Viperstrike on Sept 17, 2018 19:40:19 GMT -5
She hasn't owned up for her mistakes though, or she wouldn't be saying things like this:
"Maybe it's our fault. Maybe we didn't fight hard enough for ShadowClan while we were alive."
A disdainful hiss came from a slim, silver-pelted cat, who had been pacing restlessly near the water's edge. She halted and rounded on the others, her front claws tearing angrily at the grass. "You're wrong, Beenose," she snarled. "We couldn't have saved a Clan that didn't want to be saved. We have to place the blame where it belongs: on Rowanstar. Rowanclaw, as he's calling himself now." .... "But Rowanstar wasn't the only cat who misunderstood Darktail's true intentions. Did some of you not call yourself Darktail's kin?"
"Of course, Yellowfang, you always know everything," Needletail retorted, her tone edged with sarcasm. ... "We should have all tried harder when we had the chance."
"That's a load of mouse droppings!" Needletail meowed her green eyes narrowing. "A strong leader could have held the Clan together. Darktail or no Darktail. We were only tempted by Darktail because of Rowanclaw's weakness. And now that Darktail is dead, a strong leader would already be rebuilding the Clan. Rowanclaw accepted nine lives from StarClan, and now he's all, 'Thank you very much, I don't want them anymore.' What cat does that?" ... "And now the whole Clan is suffering," Needletail hissed. "That mange pelt-"
Everything this bitch did in Shattered Sky is null and void after that. She's supposed to be sorry, but here she is pushing all of the blame on Rowanstar. Even when Yellowfang calls her out for being a complete hypocrite, she gives a smart alec remark and continues on. If she was really sorry, she'd take full responsibility for her actions and feel sorry for Rowanstar after what she did to him instead of acting like she's the victim. She's no different than Tigerstar and the other Dark Forest cats sitting around blaming Firestar and StarClan for their situation in my eyes
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 17, 2018 19:48:04 GMT -5
She hasn't owned up for her mistakes though, or she wouldn't be saying things like this: "Maybe it's our fault. Maybe we didn't fight hard enough for ShadowClan while we were alive." A disdainful hiss came from a slim, silver-pelted cat, who had been pacing restlessly near the water's edge. She halted and rounded on the others, her front claws tearing angrily at the grass. "You're wrong, Beenose," she snarled. "We couldn't have saved a Clan that didn't want to be saved. We have to place the blame where it belongs: on Rowanstar. Rowanclaw, as he's calling himself now." .... "But Rowanstar wasn't the only cat who misunderstood Darktail's true intentions. Did some of you not call yourself Darktail's kin?" "Of course, Yellowfang, you always know everything," Needletail retorted, her tone edged with sarcasm. ... "We should have all tried harder when we had the chance." "That's a load of mouse droppings!" Needletail meowed her green eyes narrowing. "A strong leader could have held the Clan together. Darktail or no Darktail. We were only tempted by Darktail because of Rowanclaw's weakness. And now that Darktail is dead, a strong leader would already be rebuilding the Clan. Rowanclaw accepted nine lives from StarClan, and now he's all, 'Thank you very much, I don't want them anymore.' What cat does that?" ... "And now the whole Clan is suffering," Needletail hissed. "That mange pelt-" Everything this ***** did in Shattered Sky is null and void after that. She's supposed to be sorry, but here she is pushing all of the blame on Rowanstar. Even when Yellowfang calls her out for being a complete hypocrite, she gives a smart alec remark and continues on. If she was really sorry, she'd take full responsibility for her actions and feel sorry for Rowanstar after what she did to him instead of acting like she's the victim. She's no different than Tigerstar and the other Dark Forest cats sitting around blaming Firestar and StarClan for their situation in my eyes Yo so I proposed to your post and now I’m marrying it so you gon walk it down the aisle orrrrrr?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 18, 2018 3:13:20 GMT -5
I would have believed and accepted this if she didn’t go right back around and blame Rowanstar for everything when she died. She lost any chance at redeeming herself to me when she pulled that crap. If she’s in Starclan, make her like Ashfur, shut her big mouth up, and never force me to read about her ugh She has no loyalty to him, what did you expect? Her crawling back when even Blackstar was cutting him down? Needle's character for the most part mostly revolved around three cats, Alder, Violet, and Rain. Imo her kissing up to Rowan is really ooc after everything that's happened. But she did care about Violet, even if she was manipulative, she admitted her mistakes concerning Violet. But that's just my personal opinion.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 18, 2018 7:25:55 GMT -5
I would have believed and accepted this if she didn’t go right back around and blame Rowanstar for everything when she died. She lost any chance at redeeming herself to me when she pulled that crap. If she’s in Starclan, make her like Ashfur, shut her big mouth up, and never force me to read about her ugh She has no loyalty to him, what did you expect? Her crawling back when even Blackstar was cutting him down? Needle's character for the most part mostly revolved around three cats, Alder, Violet, and Rain. Imo her kissing up to Rowan is really ooc after everything that's happened. But she did care about Violet, even if she was manipulative, she admitted her mistakes concerning Violet. But that's just my personal opinion. And my respect for Blackstar decreased because of it too. I don’t care how much respect Needletail has for him. She’s placing every ounce of blame on him when most of what happened was her fault. How she feels about Rowan does not change the fact that she refuses to take responsability for the destruction she caused. In terms of opinion, Needletail’s care of Violetshine, to me, felt so unbelievably fake and manipulative that her apology sounded so half-assed. She only began apologizing when her boyfriend died. I highly doubt she would have cared if Shadowclan was destroyed if he had lived. So why does she suddenly care so much about the well-being of Shadowclan in Starclan? She’s inconsistent, selfish, manipulative, and incapable of understanding that she’s blaming other cats for crap that she caused. She’s disgusting.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 18, 2018 11:50:50 GMT -5
Fair enough, but imo I feel that there are far far FAR more horrible characters out there than Needletail. And I feel that both in credit and blame, toward Needletail is overrated.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 18, 2018 12:47:44 GMT -5
Fair enough, but imo I feel that there are far far FAR more horrible characters out there than Needletail. And I feel that both in credit and blame, toward Needletail is overrated. Understandable. She’s still my least favorite character in the entire series, that certainly won’t be changing ever XD
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Post by Viperstrike on Sept 18, 2018 14:13:57 GMT -5
the reason why i'm so harsh on needletail compared to other characters in this series is because of how she's portrayed. yes, there are plenty of characters who have done worse than needletail, however they're not treated the same way needletail is. needletail isn't held accountable for any of her actions, and is instead portrayed as a misunderstood hero when she is nothing but. right from the beginning, she is portrayed as disobedient and rude, yet alderheart constantly thinks well of her. as time goes on, her behavior gets worse. she allies herself with darktail who she knows is evil and has done terrible things(molewhisker literally says, "darktail is evil" right in front of her in the first book. there are no excuses), she is a willing participant in all of darktail's behavior which results in the death of tons of cats, encourages violetshine to attack her sister, brainwashes violetshine against her family, the list goes on. she only realizes her mistake after darktail does something against her that she dislikes. even then she doesn't seem to be sorry because she's still blaming everyone else for her behavior.
and despite all of this, alderheart and violetshine are constantly cramming it down our throats that needletail is such a good cat even though she's barely done one good thing in her life. none of the other characters are treated like this. tigerstar, brokenstar, hawkfrost, mapleshade, and the list goes on might have done worse things than needletail, but everyone holds them accountable for their actions. they're evil, and they're never portrayed as anything but. only other evil characters like them.
you never hear crookedstar say things like, "mapleshade was such a good cat. yeah, sure she's a serial killer who manipulated me and did all kinds of horrible stuff, but she was a cool gal. i sure do miss her."
you don't hear yellowfang bragging about how much she loves her son, and getting angry with people if they speak badly about him.
you don't hear cats reminising about tigerstar or hawkfrost.
and yet needletail is treated exactly like this. none of the characters ever hold her accountable for anything. they act like she did nothing wrong whatsoever, and will even go as far as to paint other characters who oppose her in a negative light. in darkest night, violetshine gets offended when leafstar and tawnypelt talk about how needletail betrayed shadowclan. hawkwing even steps in to defend needletail and he doesn't even know her. literally no one else gets treated like this and it's so frustrating. and that's what makes me hate her so much.
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 18, 2018 14:21:41 GMT -5
EXACTLY Viperstrike!!!
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 18, 2018 14:23:31 GMT -5
the reason why i'm so harsh on needletail compared to other characters in this series is because of how she's portrayed. yes, there are plenty of characters who have done worse than needletail, however they're not treated the same way needletail is. needletail isn't held accountable for any of her actions, and is instead portrayed as a misunderstood hero when she is nothing but. right from the beginning, she is portrayed as disobedient and rude, yet alderheart constantly thinks well of her. as time goes on, her behavior gets worse. she allies herself with darktail who she knows is evil and has done terrible things(molewhisker literally says, "darktail is evil" right in front of her in the first book. there are no excuses), she is a willing participant in all of darktail's behavior which results in the death of tons of cats, encourages violetshine to attack her sister, brainwashes violetshine against her family, the list goes on. she only realizes her mistake after darktail does something against her that she dislikes. even then she doesn't seem to be sorry because she's still blaming everyone else for her behavior. and despite all of this, alderheart and violetshine are constantly cramming it down our throats that needletail is such a good cat even though she's barely done one good thing in her life. none of the other characters are treated like this. tigerstar, brokenstar, hawkfrost, mapleshade, and the list goes on might have done worse things than needletail, but everyone holds them accountable for their actions. they're evil, and they're never portrayed as anything but. only other evil characters like them. you never hear crookedstar say things like, "mapleshade was such a good cat. yeah, sure she's a serial killer who manipulated me and did all kinds of horrible stuff, but she was a cool gal. i sure do miss her." you don't hear yellowfang bragging about how much she loves her son, and getting angry with people if they speak badly about him. you don't hear cats reminising about tigerstar or hawkfrost. and yet needletail is treated exactly like this. none of the characters ever hold her accountable for anything. they act like she did nothing wrong whatsoever, and will even go as far as to paint other characters who oppose her in a negative light. in darkest night, violetshine gets offended when leafstar and tawnypelt talk about how needletail betrayed shadowclan. hawkwing even steps in to defend needletail and he doesn't even know her. literally no one else gets treated like this and it's so frustrating. and that's what makes me hate her so much. Exactly! Needletail: Comits traitorous, manipulative, disgusting actions and leads murderous rouges to the clans. The Books: Woah she’s not that bad at all!!!! She’s misunderstood and it’s okay that she manipulated a child to follow her nasty agendas. Naw. Rowanstar: Has never killed, broken a code, was beat down but still put his clan and even the cats who hurt him above himself, had honor and died protecting kits of a cat who betrayed him The Books: What a weak leader, tr a s h, it’s all his fault, Tigerstar is much better, boooo like. are you kidding me?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 18, 2018 18:29:21 GMT -5
But isn't that the writer's fault?
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 18, 2018 18:36:50 GMT -5
the reason why i'm so harsh on needletail compared to other characters in this series is because of how she's portrayed. yes, there are plenty of characters who have done worse than needletail, however they're not treated the same way needletail is. needletail isn't held accountable for any of her actions, and is instead portrayed as a misunderstood hero when she is nothing but. right from the beginning, she is portrayed as disobedient and rude, yet alderheart constantly thinks well of her. as time goes on, her behavior gets worse. she allies herself with darktail who she knows is evil and has done terrible things(molewhisker literally says, "darktail is evil" right in front of her in the first book. there are no excuses), she is a willing participant in all of darktail's behavior which results in the death of tons of cats, encourages violetshine to attack her sister, brainwashes violetshine against her family, the list goes on. she only realizes her mistake after darktail does something against her that she dislikes. even then she doesn't seem to be sorry because she's still blaming everyone else for her behavior. and despite all of this, alderheart and violetshine are constantly cramming it down our throats that needletail is such a good cat even though she's barely done one good thing in her life. none of the other characters are treated like this. tigerstar, brokenstar, hawkfrost, mapleshade, and the list goes on might have done worse things than needletail, but everyone holds them accountable for their actions. they're evil, and they're never portrayed as anything but. only other evil characters like them. you never hear crookedstar say things like, "mapleshade was such a good cat. yeah, sure she's a serial killer who manipulated me and did all kinds of horrible stuff, but she was a cool gal. i sure do miss her." you don't hear yellowfang bragging about how much she loves her son, and getting angry with people if they speak badly about him. you don't hear cats reminising about tigerstar or hawkfrost. and yet needletail is treated exactly like this. none of the characters ever hold her accountable for anything. they act like she did nothing wrong whatsoever, and will even go as far as to paint other characters who oppose her in a negative light. in darkest night, violetshine gets offended when leafstar and tawnypelt talk about how needletail betrayed shadowclan. hawkwing even steps in to defend needletail and he doesn't even know her. literally no one else gets treated like this and it's so frustrating. and that's what makes me hate her so much. I get the point you’re making but Brambleclaw absolutely shilled for Tigerstar and acted like he was a tragedy. It was super weird and very stupid, but he did it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2018 16:54:46 GMT -5
She hasn't owned up for her mistakes though, or she wouldn't be saying things like this: "Maybe it's our fault. Maybe we didn't fight hard enough for ShadowClan while we were alive." A disdainful hiss came from a slim, silver-pelted cat, who had been pacing restlessly near the water's edge. She halted and rounded on the others, her front claws tearing angrily at the grass. "You're wrong, Beenose," she snarled. "We couldn't have saved a Clan that didn't want to be saved. We have to place the blame where it belongs: on Rowanstar. Rowanclaw, as he's calling himself now." .... "But Rowanstar wasn't the only cat who misunderstood Darktail's true intentions. Did some of you not call yourself Darktail's kin?" "Of course, Yellowfang, you always know everything," Needletail retorted, her tone edged with sarcasm. ... "We should have all tried harder when we had the chance." "That's a load of mouse droppings!" Needletail meowed her green eyes narrowing. "A strong leader could have held the Clan together. Darktail or no Darktail. We were only tempted by Darktail because of Rowanclaw's weakness. And now that Darktail is dead, a strong leader would already be rebuilding the Clan. Rowanclaw accepted nine lives from StarClan, and now he's all, 'Thank you very much, I don't want them anymore.' What cat does that?" ... "And now the whole Clan is suffering," Needletail hissed. "That mange pelt-" Everything this ***** did in Shattered Sky is null and void after that. She's supposed to be sorry, but here she is pushing all of the blame on Rowanstar. Even when Yellowfang calls her out for being a complete hypocrite, she gives a smart alec remark and continues on. If she was really sorry, she'd take full responsibility for her actions and feel sorry for Rowanstar after what she did to him instead of acting like she's the victim. She's no different than Tigerstar and the other Dark Forest cats sitting around blaming Firestar and StarClan for their situation in my eyes I couldn't agree more. She's become one of the least favorite Warriors characters I've had the displeasure to know.
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