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Post by streamflower on Jul 11, 2018 19:14:52 GMT -5
For instance:
8. The deputy will become Clan leader when the leader dies, retires or is exiled.
>Exiled
Brokenstar was exiled. Nightstar should have been leader. Brokenstar did NOT have all of his lives, so Nightstar should have at least received some. Sunstar did--why not Nightstar?
Have any leaders been exiled other than Brokenstar? Ugh. This pisses me off. Why continuity errors Erins. Why.
14. An honorable warrior does not need to kill other cats to win his/her battles, unless they are outside the warrior code or if it is necessary for self-defense.
I never remember any cats saying it's okay to kill cats outside the clans except for MAYBE Bloodclan. After that I truly don't remember it.
Another issue I have (and I don't think this is specifically stated in the code) is that leaders seem to be the ones who decide to dole out punishment--so why is it that when a medicine cat has kits Starclan decides to punish the kits as well as the cat? Let the leader decide dang it. And don't punish kits for another cats mistake! If anything, Starclan is in fault of 12) No warrior can neglect a kit in pain or danger, even if the kit is from a different Clan. These kits are still clan kits, yet they're actively punishing them (Brokenstar by making him evil, Jayfeather by making him blind) and they say as such.
Just bugs me. Starclan breaks their own code or just flat-out ignores it too many dang times.
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Post by mymerlincat on Jul 11, 2018 19:16:14 GMT -5
he wasn’t the deputy
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Post by streamflower on Jul 11, 2018 19:20:31 GMT -5
But he was elected deputy, as Brokenstar's deputy (Blackfoot) was driven out. If going by that logic, then Tigerstar should NEVER have become leader as he wasn't deputy either.
One of the books (Code of the clans?) has a non-deputy who is chosen by the medicine cat after both the leader and deputy die (Flowerstem I think). The same thing happens with Tigerclaw/star when they find the "sign" from starclan.
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Post by Fernstep on Jul 12, 2018 2:00:44 GMT -5
I don't understand what your problem is. Is this about Nightstar not receiving his nine lives? That had zilch to do with whether he was the "rightful" leader or not: StarClan cannot give out lives to one leader while the last one still has his. See: Sunstar.
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Post by streamflower on Jul 12, 2018 2:26:09 GMT -5
My problem is that the code specifically states that if a leader is exiled then the next deputy takes over and becomes leader. Brokenstar was exiled, hence, Nightstar should have been leader. They either need to change the wording of the code to "If the leader is exiled or retires with lives left then the deputy will not receive that many lives etc," or Starclan should just step up to the plate and do it (not that they seem to be able to do much though).
It's more or less just a frustrated (and somewhat joking) rant about the fact that the books fail to have actual continuity with what it claims is an integral part of the books. I know that's an issue with the books, as does everyone else. I sometimes just feel the need to vent. No need to be rude about it.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jul 12, 2018 2:27:30 GMT -5
What Fern said. And Brokenstar was still ALIVE when he was exiled, he didn't retire or anything, he had his remaining extra lives. Exile is not approved by Starclan. That part of the code was pretty much flawed and in need of rewording to remove that bit by that point.
Shadowclan may have saw Nightstar as Leader at the time, but Starclan didn't, and that was what mattered in the situation.
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Post by streamflower on Jul 12, 2018 2:34:25 GMT -5
What Fern said. And Brokenstar was still ALIVE when he was exiled, he didn't retire or anything, and he had his remaining lives. Exile is not approved by Starclan. That part of the code is pretty much flawed and in need of rewording to remove that bit. Shadowclan may have saw Nightstar as Leader at the time, but Starclan didn't, and that was what mattered in the situation. I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that the warrior code says "The deputy will become Clan leader when the leader dies, retires or is exiled," but that Starclan doesn't approve it. I mean heck they're the ones who started the warrior code you think they'd be more clear with what that means. To me, that means that if one IS exiled then Starclan will realize that there's a reason for it, and will do something about it. I really doubt that Rowanstar managed to lose 8/9 lives between Bramblestar's Storm and RoF, so that means in some facet he can surrender them/Starclan can take them back. It's just frustrating to me, and it just seems...I don't know, incorrect for lack of a better term, that they can't just give lives to a new leader if the old one has literally been exiled for being a child murderer. Furthermore, Brokenstar only had one life left. Starclan could have at least given Nightstar 8 lives.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jul 12, 2018 2:42:18 GMT -5
What Fern said. And Brokenstar was still ALIVE when he was exiled, he didn't retire or anything, and he had his remaining lives. Exile is not approved by Starclan. That part of the code is pretty much flawed and in need of rewording to remove that bit. Shadowclan may have saw Nightstar as Leader at the time, but Starclan didn't, and that was what mattered in the situation. I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that the warrior code says "The deputy will become Clan leader when the leader dies, retires or is exiled," but that Starclan doesn't approve it. I mean heck they're the ones who started the warrior code you think they'd be more clear with what that means. To me, that means that if one IS exiled then Starclan will realize that there's a reason for it, and will do something about it. I really doubt that Rowanstar managed to lose 8/9 lives between Bramblestar's Storm and RoF, so that means in some facet he can surrender them/Starclan can take them back. It's just frustrating to me, and it just seems...I don't know, incorrect for lack of a better term, that they can't just give lives to a new leader if the old one has literally been exiled for being a child murderer. Furthermore, Brokenstar only had one life left. Starclan could have at least given Nightstar 8 lives. Brokenstar did not have one life left by the time Nightpelt became leader though. He was proclaimed leader in Fire and Ice. Brokenstar had 2 lives by then, 3 if you count before Yellowfang killed and blinded him.
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Post by streamflower on Jul 12, 2018 2:59:10 GMT -5
I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that the warrior code says "The deputy will become Clan leader when the leader dies, retires or is exiled," but that Starclan doesn't approve it. I mean heck they're the ones who started the warrior code you think they'd be more clear with what that means. To me, that means that if one IS exiled then Starclan will realize that there's a reason for it, and will do something about it. I really doubt that Rowanstar managed to lose 8/9 lives between Bramblestar's Storm and RoF, so that means in some facet he can surrender them/Starclan can take them back. It's just frustrating to me, and it just seems...I don't know, incorrect for lack of a better term, that they can't just give lives to a new leader if the old one has literally been exiled for being a child murderer. Furthermore, Brokenstar only had one life left. Starclan could have at least given Nightstar 8 lives. Brokenstar did not have one life left by the time Nightpelt became leader though. He was proclaimed leader in Fire and Ice. Brokenstar had 2 lives by then, 3 if you count before Yellowfang killed and blinded him. Then Nightstar should have received 6 or 7 lives, especially since Sunstar was given 8 due to Pine being alive still. Look, I get that it's screwy and that it was a retconned plot device. I'm just mad that it's not fixed or explained well. In general I'm mad that the code has discrepancies so often that it gets confusing for new readers sometimes (IE, My cousin started reading the books and asked why Nightstar didn't get lives when Brokenstar didn't have all 9 lives despite Sunstar being given 8 lives because Pine was alive etc). Maybe I should just change this to a "Issues with the code" rant because #8 isn't the only issue I have with it.
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Post by hissingwillows on Jul 14, 2018 1:00:14 GMT -5
The trouble is that Sunstar, in terms of production/release, happened after Nightstar. The problem is more with continuity errors in the series, not with the warrior code itself - the code's rule with deputy becoming leader after the old leader's exile isn't the flawed part, it's the writers not plotting things out/poor communication/forgetting minor details like that.
The Super Editions specifically have a lot of issues with details like that as well as timeline. Yellowfang was meant to be ancient by the TPB, but she was still young by the end of her SE and her whole backstory was undermined from what we previously knew of it.
Does the code have flaws? Yeah. But the wording of that rule isn't a flaw, it's just that the writers keep screwing things up and forgetting what they've done with details like lives.
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#FF55A3
Name Colour
Apricity
Bravelands is too slept on.
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Post by Apricity on Jul 14, 2018 2:16:24 GMT -5
The trouble is that Sunstar, in terms of production/release, happened after Nightstar. The problem is more with continuity errors in the series, not with the warrior code itself - the code's rule with deputy becoming leader after the old leader's exile isn't the flawed part, it's the writers not plotting things out/poor communication/forgetting minor details like that. The Super Editions specifically have a lot of issues with details like that as well as timeline. Yellowfang was meant to be ancient by the TPB, but she was still young by the end of her SE and her whole backstory was undermined from what we previously knew of it. Does the code have flaws? Yeah. But the wording of that rule isn't a flaw, it's just that the writers keep screwing things up and forgetting what they've done with details like lives. I remember in YS that she actually mentioned how she was getting old right before she was exiled. But I have a bad memory, so idk.
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Post by hissingwillows on Jul 14, 2018 2:54:24 GMT -5
The trouble is that Sunstar, in terms of production/release, happened after Nightstar. The problem is more with continuity errors in the series, not with the warrior code itself - the code's rule with deputy becoming leader after the old leader's exile isn't the flawed part, it's the writers not plotting things out/poor communication/forgetting minor details like that. The Super Editions specifically have a lot of issues with details like that as well as timeline. Yellowfang was meant to be ancient by the TPB, but she was still young by the end of her SE and her whole backstory was undermined from what we previously knew of it. Does the code have flaws? Yeah. But the wording of that rule isn't a flaw, it's just that the writers keep screwing things up and forgetting what they've done with details like lives. I remember in YS that she actually mentioned how she was getting old right before she was exiled. But I have a bad memory, so idk. I mean, probably, but they also had her parents still having children, so it was still weird even if they brushed over her age. Then again, Yellowfang's Secret was pretty bad all around, but I won't get into that here.
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