Are they really selfish?

This is why the rule needs to go, so desperately.


But I'd say it's still selfish in some regard, when you take into account the kits. Example: Yellowfang not doing anything when Lizardstripe/her kits were abusing/bullying Brokenkit, even teasing him how he doesn't have a mother. And Leafpool dumping the unwanted kits/reasonabilities onto her sister, not only ruining the life Brambleclaw/Squirrelflight, but also making Lionblaze/Jayfeather lonely/bitter but also causing Hollyleaf's downfall.

All this could of been avoided if they'd just honest. It kinds of feels like that they're putting their own safety over their kits, which I'd call somewhat selfish.

She knew full-well Brokenkit desperately needed a mother. And here she was, right there. Watching while he was getting abused. She did try a little, when she took him to the Medicine den once, to try and get him interested in herbs in hope of him becoming her apprentice. But apart from that, she literally did nothing. 

I still do feel like she was still only protecting herself. And unlike Leafpool, I doubt she'd have much to lose. The father was within Shadowclan and it was already public knowledge that Yellowfang had been mates with Raggedpelt before becoming a Medicine cat. And it's not like she even wanted to become one in the first place.

Shadowclan had already to let Featherstorm to go unpunished, despite it being clear the father of her kits was a kittypet. So I doubt it would of been any worse for Yellowfang. Most likely her reputation would of taken a hit and asked to return to Warrior duties, but at least Brokenkit would of grown up with a loving mother, rather then a publicly abusive one.  I still consider it selfish.

This is why I always wanted Jayfeather and Briarlight to be official. It would be discovered Briarlight can't have kits and since her life already pretty tough, Thunderclan resultantly allows Jayfeather and Briarlight to become official/publish mates, the first time in the Clans' history. This makes way for the question of why even having the rule in the first place, especially after Leafpool being allowed to stay Medicine cat. So eventually, it's abolished, with Alderheart being the first Medicine cat since Mothflight, to have kits freely.  This would give Briarlight an important role to play, even as a paralyzed cat.  

If you want a mate, don’t become a medicine cat, simple.
If you had a mate you would than prioritize that mate (and any kits,) over any other Clan member, frankly it’s a rather reasonable rule within Clan society.
Having a mate or kits easily blurs the roles of medicine cat and parent/lover, a medicine cat would then prioritize that cat’s wellbeing or would have to treat them differently.
Despite Jayfeather’s own faults, Leafpool did at least choose to be an actual mentor to him, over being his mother, when she was teaching him.
While Yellowfang as previously mentioned, tried to get Brokenkit away from the others and interest him in medicine. Sagewhisker acted responsively when she saw the lines begin to blur, mother or professional?
We see the most of how troublesome kits can be to a medicine cat in Mothflight’s Vision, as she was the cat who set in place such an important rule, after much trouble with her own kits and responsibilities.
During that time period there was at least the luxury of calmer borders, and Mothflight still had trouble. Making sure her kits were safe but also neglecting her duties at the same time. (I believe various things with Rocky? It’s been a while since I read MV.)
It is a necessary rule, and unlike doctors of our world, medicine cats have no choice, concerning whether or not they would have to treat their injured mate or kits.
They would simply have to do so, and this could be dangerous for other members of the Clan.
A medicine cat is only one cat and they can’t have their minds only focused on a mate or kits, if they were to have kits or a mate, as people want:
It would simply just end badly, either a distracted medicine cat losing more lives at the cost of a few or a very emotionally distant parent. (Any relationship a medicine cat would have could likely end in a brief fling as they’d have to prioritize the Clan over their lover.)
Fortunately the rule exists and is in place, just there are cats that fail to uphold it.

While the rule is a necessity, of course, the only way I can see some form of leniency is the current medicine cat stepping down from their position, in order to pursue a mate.
(Obviously a well-trained apprentice must exist for the medicine cat to do so. The former medicine cat could also not return to their previous work, unless under vital circumstances. The apprentice dies, the best possible outcome would be for someone of another Clan to become the medicine cat-less’s Clan’s medicine cat.
The former would then have to quickly teach the new medicine cat where to find herbs in that territory.
If this is unlikely, the former would then have to resume their position till an apprentice is chosen, and the risks would be apparent.

feel like this is kinda directed at leafpool because people hate her...and i still love and defend and prefer leafpool...leafpool came back so she's not 100% selfish.

I think the whole system just needs to be reworked, honestly. Because it keeps getting broken and abused so many times, which is understandable. I think another topic here pointed out that huge problem is that the choice to become a medicine cat happens before puberty, and then puberty kicks in and of course many of them cannot control it… These cats are sacrificing their ability to have mates and kits, but they're so young when they do it that it's like they don't even realize what they're giving up…

And I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to accommodate for a medicine cat having a mate and kits, even females. It would just require someone else to have a bit of training in herbs and go get them when they become less mobile. If they were worried about medicine cats neglecting their duties, they could have another queen help raise the kits, and have them be nursed and bonded with when the medicine cat has time. Having at least two medicine cats could work, but then cats will be taking apprentices that might not want the position just so that someone else can have a family…

And it's not like it hasn't been reworked in fanfiction… For example, I read a story where medicine cats could have mates and kits if they wanted, but they had to give them to another queens to physically raise. They could still bond with the family, and do what they could. Many of the children of these pairings were still close to their parents, despite the different rules surrounding the relationship.

Here's hoping the Broken Code will address the rule, but I doubt it…

I think it is. I think any forbidden relationship has an element of selfishness. Why? Because it's against the rules. Even if you don't think it's right, your clan raised you and gave you everything you have. Assuming they've never mistreated you, you pretty much owe them everything. Breaking the rules shows that you don't care about them. It's just really disrespectful

Breaking the rules is selfish, but the problem is the way the medicine cat system is set up, it's almost like the rule is made to be broken… It's like someone mentions in passing that they can’t have a mate or kits if they are a medicine cat, their apprentice doesn't really register what that means, and then they get into trouble… Not to mention the position doesn't seem to have a lot of benefits, because it's just not treated with respect… So of course the apprentices probably don't see much payoff either…

I’m currently reading a story (warriors redux, for the curious; it's a deconstruction and a much more realistic attempt at the Warriors world) where the medicine cat rule is kept, but the system is entirely reworked. The medicine cat equivalent is treated with the utmost respect, and freely allowed anywhere (even if they have broken a major rule). Furthermore, it's clearly explained to apprentices what type of commitment they need to make before they can take the position. Finally, it gets to the point where killing a medicine cat or otherwise harming them can be punished with death (and this is enforced several times throughout the story). It's really interesting, and I wish this was the type of attitude Warriors had towards their medicine cats.

The page on the position is here, for those who want to compare.

warriorsredux.tumblr.com/post/146493277655/ranks-seers

This. I have always thought the rule was unfair to be honest.

I do not like the Medicine cat rule of not having mates or kits. It is like saying that if you are a medicine cat you can not do your job and be a normal cat. It is like saying that a warrior mother can not be a mother and a warrior mother at the same time or a leader can not be a father or mother or mate at the same time as a leader. The rule in itself is selfish and portrays medicine cat in a light that they are not strong enough to do both, medicine and mate. In real life there are doctors and religious leaders who are both married and have kids and do their jobs. I just think that this rule is bad.

Yeah like Mellowix said, just have the medicine cat plan to have a fully-trained apprentice first before starting a family. It's still sacrificing probably wanting to have a family, like, now, but it makes sure the clan is taken care of and honestly could probably get rid of a lot of half-clan relationships- as most of those are either one-night-stands or don't last for more than a few books- and it takes extra long for a medicine cat apprentice to be fully trained. By the time they're trained, whatever potential for a half-clan relationship to form would be gone already.

Overall it would still demand a certain amount of responsibility, but it would give the medicine cats a choice. And they wouldn't have to feel guilty about anything they do in their family as long as they do it at the right time and the right way.

"But not a lot of kits want to become medicine cats, they might not get an apprentice till they're old" That's mostly because a lot of medicine cats stubbornly wait for cats that are particularly close to StarClan or have strange visions. In fact, "hey are you ok with not having a mate or kits" isn't even a question- it's "hey you see weird dreams you're going to be a medicine cat, ask questions later". I'm sure there are plenty of cats who genuinely weren't interested in a mate and possibly interested in medicine but because they don't have odd dreams they didn't have the opportunity. Plus... you don't have to be a brand new apprentice to become a medicine cat. Yes, it's ideal because they want the next medicine cat to be alive or as long as possible, but in this day and age where cats can seriously live till like 15 in the series I don't think that'll be an issue. Anyone can be a medicine cat if they're willing to work hard and put the effort in- just look at Brightheart, who did so well that it convinced her even more that they would be fine without her.