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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 12:28:58 GMT -5
It doesn't make sense to me. Everything that's been written is canon. The recent Novellas, AVOS, and so on. Whatever happened is now officially canon. I remember way back when Spottedleaf's Heart was first released lots of people didn't want to accept it as canon.. But to be honest, I find this a little overboard. I understand that the topic itself can be unsettling, but being so stubborn as to refuse to accept it as canon? Now that's just ridiculous. I know the new books have been feeling very off lately, but you have to accept it as canon. It happened. We just have to deal with it.
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Post by mothsnap on May 14, 2018 12:47:46 GMT -5
some books suck so bad people want to forget them. what's so hard to understand. a lot in this franchise is pretty bad.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 13:26:09 GMT -5
some books suck so bad people want to forget them. what's so hard to understand. a lot in this franchise is pretty bad. I'm perfectly aware that these books aren't the best, thank you. I'm just saying that they are canon whether people like it or not. You can forget the books, but they are canon. |
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on May 14, 2018 13:31:23 GMT -5
I think a large part of it is that some information is contradictory. Either events are changed or characters act out of character.
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Post by Amberfoot on May 14, 2018 13:43:58 GMT -5
I second that there is a lot of contradictory information, cats names that have changed, things left out, etc. I definitely understand everything is canon. It's just depressing lol. There are a lot of things I would change about the series.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 13:53:57 GMT -5
I mean, I kinda understand not taking some of the guides as cannon- like TUG for example, where it got a whole lot blatantly wrong, not even debatable. It's one thing to have like, one contradictory thing in a book (let's be real pretty much all the books have something wrong or contradictory), but TUG is a landfill of inconsistencies.
But yeah, I agree that other than that, cannon is cannon, especially if it was written mostly by Kate, Cherith, or Vicky. But considering the series is so complex- we have a bunch of random people framing the story and three authors never talking to each other and branching the stories out- it's impossible to pick and choose which books you accept because the series really is written by Erin Hunter- a hodgepodge of different ideas, opinions, story and editing.
What we can all agree on though is that anything Vicky, Kate, or Cherith say outside of the main series or guides is definitely not confirmed cannon, and that can be accepted or rejected by the fans depending on what they want to do. One author cannot speak for the entire Erin Hunter group because then they'd be speaking for all the other authors and editors, when in reality nothing truly is unified between them all.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on May 14, 2018 13:55:22 GMT -5
People not accepting things as Canon happens in every series, unfortunately. People just don't accept what doesn't make sense to them, really.
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Post by mothsnap on May 14, 2018 14:14:01 GMT -5
some books suck so bad people want to forget them. what's so hard to understand. a lot in this franchise is pretty bad. I'm perfectly aware that these books aren't the best, thank you. I'm just saying that they are canon whether people like it or not. You can forget the books, but they are canon. the point is to pretend they're not. obviously they're canon technically. |
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Post by Darkfang ☾ on May 14, 2018 15:59:35 GMT -5
as others have said, there's so many contradictions that it's impossible to accept everything as canon. e.g. which is canon: Hawkheart being a warrior before becoming a med cat as stated in BP or Hawkheart being a med cat apprentice and never being a warrior as stated in GC. you have to reject one as not being canon. that's just 1 example anyway. there are sooo many inconsistencies.
a more extreme thing is although i accept that Spottedleaf's Heart is a book, the book is so weird and not linked to any others (ie all the characters seem so far out of character) that my brain almost can't place it in the series and so i keep forgetting that it happened, if that makes sense.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 14, 2018 16:13:27 GMT -5
I'm perfectly aware that these books aren't the best, thank you. I'm just saying that they are canon whether people like it or not. You can forget the books, but they are canon. the point is to pretend they're not. obviously they're canon technically. This is pretty much me at spottedleaf's heart no matter what anyone says. It's so annoying to say that I like Thistleclaw then people accuse me of being a ****phile apologist, and I just...??? So yeah, I'd rather pretend that book and the dumpster fire in it never happened. It's quite easy, cause it's not shoved in our faces like THS and it's way worse dumpster fire, was. |
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Post by Thunderheart57 on May 14, 2018 16:14:37 GMT -5
as others have said, there's so many contradictions that it's impossible to accept everything as canon. e.g. which is canon: Hawkheart being a warrior before becoming a med cat as stated in BP or Hawkheart being a med cat apprentice and never being a warrior as stated in GC. you have to reject one as not being canon. that's just 1 example anyway. there are sooo many inconsistencies. a more extreme thing is although i accept that Spottedleaf's Heart is a book, the book is so weird and not linked to any others (ie all the characters seem so far out of character) that my brain almost can't place it in the series and so i keep forgetting that it happened, if that makes sense. I agree with you on Spottedleaf's Heart. It felt so disconnected from the rest of the series in terms of where it is placed on the timeline, the way how the characters act when compared to previous books, and how Vicky tried to make Thistleclaw unlikeable as a whole. It was one of the worst novellas so far. |
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Post by Fernstep on May 14, 2018 16:23:18 GMT -5
Rock.
Even discounting the guide there are still three completely contradictory origin stories presented for him by the canon books. That's just frustrating. So yes, having a cohesive idea of who or what Rock is in your headcanon requires that you reject some of the stories given by the books.
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Post by Mistybreeze on May 14, 2018 16:27:53 GMT -5
If there are direct contradictions to previous events, then yes canonicity is debatable. But it is never acceptable to say something isn't canon just because you don't like it. You are free to change what you want in fanfics, but everywhere else it's canon.
What blows my mind is when people discredit everything that the Erins say. If they say something is canon and there is nothing contradicting that statement, then it is canon. There's no argument to be made otherwise. But again contradictions do cast a gray area which makes some things debatable.
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Post by Firestorm on May 14, 2018 18:23:01 GMT -5
I think "canon" can be a little tricky with Warriors, due to how many authors there are, and how many characters there are. Of course, someone's going to get the cats mixed up every now and then. There's cats disappearing and reappearing, changing genders, and most commonly, instances of inconsistency in character descriptions (does Dovewing have blue or green eyes?). In those cases, I just imagine them whatever way makes the most genetic sense (which is Dovewing having green eyes).
The way I see it, overall, what's published is canon. I hated everything about Spottedleaf's Heart, and I don't think it was the smartest decision to publish a story of that nature in a series that is targeted for children, even if some of us fans are adults. But, they wrote it, they published it, and it's canon.
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Bisexual
Fawnwing
Tree is good, you guys are just mean
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Post by Fawnwing on May 15, 2018 2:25:18 GMT -5
I can totally agree with some things being contradictory, and you just have to say it's not Canon.
I think some people take it too far though, I remember one person saying everything after Omen of the stars is not Canon in my eyes and never will be. They asked me about Briarlight in AVOS and they said they lover and AVOS is isn't Canon to them because of what happened. I was a little annoyed, whatever happened after in the storyline is Canon whether you like it or not. I'm not talking about inconsistencies, that I agree on.
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