#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 12, 2018 21:59:46 GMT -5
As early as Night Whispers, the Dark Forest made it known to the trainees of their true intentions when they were talking about the end of the Clans. What did the trainees (or at least the ones who were present at the time and fought for the Clans) expect from this? Just another reason why this whole thing doesn't make any sense!
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 22:21:45 GMT -5
This makes Ivypool look more foolish than she already is. Even as an apprentince she had bad vibes about the place and yet she still stayed. This whole thing was just badly written in general.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 12, 2018 22:26:00 GMT -5
Can you be more specific? Where in Night Whispers did the DF cats reveal that they would be attacking live clan cats?
Also, its wrong to call Ivypool foolish when it's the same book she literally decides to become a spy?? Not before or after.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 22:27:46 GMT -5
Can you be more specific? Where in Night Whispers did the DF cats reveal that they would be attacking live clan cats? Also, its wrong to call Ivypool foolish when it's the same book she literally decides to become a spy?? She didn't decide. She was pressured into it. And even if she didn't want to, she didn't have a choice but to stay. She really was dumb about the whole thing. Okay, I can justify the first time her being there because the place was in a meadow or something, but after that, there's no excuse. She went there for attention. She knew the place was bad but she still stayed. The first few moons was by will. She only wanted to leave after she found out the truth, and it was too late to back down then.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 12, 2018 22:31:43 GMT -5
Can you be more specific? Where in Night Whispers did the DF cats reveal that they would be attacking live clan cats?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 12, 2018 22:39:02 GMT -5
Can you be more specific? Where in Night Whispers did the DF cats reveal that they would be attacking live clan cats? Also, its wrong to call Ivypool foolish when it's the same book she literally decides to become a spy?? She didn't decide. She was pressured into it. And even if she didn't want to, she didn't have a choice but to stay. She really was dumb about the whole thing. Okay, I can justify the first time her being there because the place was in a meadow or something, but after that, there's no excuse. She went there for attention. She knew the place was bad but she still stayed. The first few moons was by will. She only wanted to leave after she found out the truth, and it was too late to back down then. That's kinda nonsensical. She's the equivalent of a child this whole time, even when she finally does realize they were manipulating her. She's never met any of these cats, unlike older ones such as Brambleclaw or Birchfall, etc. Hawkfrost manipulated her, along with other cats, and other DF cats did the very same thing. You're getting on Ivypaw's case making it seem like she should be some all mighty wise cat at her age, when she's not. She's still learning at the time, and she herself realizes her mistakes, but it was already too late. She thought she was special, she thought she was being trained to be a good cat for her clan, and that Tigerstar and Hawkfrost were actually genuine about their words. These are things they used to lure her in in the first place. She's not like Tawnypelt, she doesn't know what any of them are actually like, especially when they were alive. Take her age into consideration. It makes sense that she'd want to leave after finding out the truth?? What else would she have wanted to do? She realized they lied to her, do you think she'd want to stay?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 22:40:17 GMT -5
She didn't decide. She was pressured into it. And even if she didn't want to, she didn't have a choice but to stay. She really was dumb about the whole thing. Okay, I can justify the first time her being there because the place was in a meadow or something, but after that, there's no excuse. She went there for attention. She knew the place was bad but she still stayed. The first few moons was by will. She only wanted to leave after she found out the truth, and it was too late to back down then. That's kinda nonsensical. She's the equivalent of a child this whole time, even when she finally does realize they were manipulating her. She's never met any of these cats, unlike older ones such as Brambleclaw or Birchfall, etc. Hawkfrost manipulated her, along with other cats, and other DF cats did the very same thing. You're getting on Ivypaw's case making it seem like she should be some all mighty wise cat at her age, when she's not. She's still learning at the time, and she herself realizes her mistakes, but it was already too late. She thought she was special, she thought she was being trained to be a good cat for her clan, and that Tigerstar and Hawkfrost were actually genuine about their words. These are things they used to lure her in in the first place. She's not like Tawnypelt, she doesn't know what any of them are actually like, especially when they were alive. Take her age into consideration. It makes sense that she'd want to leave after finding out the truth?? What else would she have wanted to do? She realized they lied to her, do you think she'd want to stay? Tbh, I'm in no mood to debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I'm not on a computer for a proper reply, and you know very well how stubborn we both are about this topic lol.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 12, 2018 22:41:38 GMT -5
Can you be more specific? Where in Night Whispers did the DF cats reveal that they would be attacking live clan cats? Isn't that the scene right before they intimidated her? Also, I remember it was noted that Tigerstar never revealed when they were going to attack the clans, let alone how. The only thing they said was that they were putting an end to it. For all, we know at the time it could have meant out with the old and in with the new. And keep in mind this is before they get more cats, this is only the third book, halfway through the series, a lot of other cats haven't even join at this point. Imo I don't think 3 books is very early.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 12, 2018 22:57:49 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅, I think so? I may need to go back and check. And I am aware that Tigerstar never said when or how, and that they didn't have that many trainees, but it's still pretty dumb either way. Everything about OotS is just so irritating, that this is tolerable. Honestly, by this point, I put the blame mostly on StarClan, because they at least knew the Dark Forest was going to eventually attack (until FE made Yellowfang oblivious to this despite the fact that she told Jayfeather herself in TFA). Even if they didn't know when the battle would happen, they could've probably informed the leaders, or at least the medicine cats, so they could've probably been more prepared than they were long before the battle began.
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Post by Fernstep on May 13, 2018 23:30:39 GMT -5
Trying to make sense of the Dark Forest when OOTS can't be bothered to keep any of the plot's details straight from one book to the next is like trying to provide a reasonable explanation for Heavystep's nine lives. You're only going to hurt yourself.
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