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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:20:53 GMT -5
I know you may say, it's impossible for a kit to do any crimes. But not if an older kit ends up killing younger ones. For example, a 5/4 moon kit could easily overpower a 1/2 old one. Moving on-
What do say happens to 'evil' kits/apprentices, that have committed serious crimes like murder/treason? Would they sent to the Dark Forest or get away with it, and go to Starclan, solely for their age? Would they be reincarnated to have a second chance?
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Post by mothsnap on May 12, 2018 15:24:55 GMT -5
maybe in the real world they do, but in warriors where the cats are humanized kits killing kits isn't going to happen especially since mothers are pretty much watching 24/7. Apprentices are 6 months old at least. By that time cats are almost full size. They're inexperienced, but mentally capable at least. Dark forest definitely.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:36:47 GMT -5
maybe in the real world they do, but in warriors where the cats are humanized kits killing kits isn't going to happen especially since mothers are pretty much watching 24/7. Apprentices are 6 months old at least. By that time cats are almost full size. They're inexperienced, but mentally capable at least. Dark forest definitely. I mean kits aren't being watched 24/7, especially considering how often kits are able to sneak out of camp. The old ones especially, often allowed to play in camp without being supervised. And kits are capable of killing other kits, when Brownkit and Webkit accidentally killed Mosspaw (Underaged apprentice/kit) during one of Brokenstar's training sessions. So it's possible for a kit to purposefully kill other kits, most likely younger ones.
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Post by mothsnap on May 12, 2018 15:55:36 GMT -5
maybe in the real world they do, but in warriors where the cats are humanized kits killing kits isn't going to happen especially since mothers are pretty much watching 24/7. Apprentices are 6 months old at least. By that time cats are almost full size. They're inexperienced, but mentally capable at least. Dark forest definitely. I mean kits aren't being watched 24/7, especially considering how often kits are able to sneak out of camp. The old ones especially, often allowed to play in camp without being supervised. And kits are capable of killing other kits, when Brownkit and Webkit accidentally killed Mosspaw (Underaged apprentice/kit) during one of Brokenstar's training sessions. So it's possible for a kit to purposefully kill other kits, most likely younger ones. I suppose, but that was because they're forced to fight. Of course kits might kill enough other through accidents as such as well. I don't really see a kit having the mental capability of killing on purpose though. What would be the motive and what would give then that mentality in less than 6 months of life? It's honestly impossible. Even if they were born with sociopathy or something like that it doesn't necessarily lead to killing.
Assuming the off chance that it did, there's even less of a chance of a kit killing and then getting killed all in under 6 moons. 6 moons old is the equivalent of 10 human years. if you google it, there is only one documented killer younger than 10 years old. Young killers, as well as adult killers are usually the result of a really complicated family situation which is also unlikely in the warriors world as even if your parents are bad, the rest of the clan are usually pretty good. Even Crookedstar had a friendly father and brother.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on May 12, 2018 16:11:09 GMT -5
In the one story where this did happen, the young cat did go to the Dark Forest. He was effectively brainwashed into believing killing his former comrades was right, because in his mind and the minds and his new family, they were the ones that were brainwashed. He still had a concept of right and wrong, so he knew what he was doing was wrong, but didn't care. It also helped that the person in charge was actually his kin (his grandfather, I believe).
Actually, I did see a story with an evil kit, but that kit was manipulated into mistreating others. This led to him horrifically attack other younger kits in the nursery, and showing no regret over it. Eventually, the protagonist is forced to kill the kit, because he realizes there's no other way to stop the attacks. It's not explained where the kit's soul ends up, but I can only assume it would be in the Dark Forest. The kit was constantly scolded for it, so he knew it was wrong, and he was at the age where he understood morality.
Honestly, I'm surprised something like this hasn't come up in the series. Especially considering how many characters manipulate others... It would be so easy for them to manipulate a young apprentice and/or a kit, and have them project the picture of innocence, until it's too late for anyone against them... In both cases described above, this is what happened... Probably would be too dark for the Erins to write though, especially considering justifying mindless killing has been known to make them uncomfortable (thinking mainly of comments stated during the writing of Mapleshade's Vengeance).
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Post by *Faith* on May 12, 2018 18:20:01 GMT -5
Brownpaw and Wetfoot accidently killed Mosspaw (who was older than them) when Brokenstar took them out to train. All three of them were kits. None of them were evil though.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 12, 2018 18:22:31 GMT -5
In the one story where this did happen, the young cat did go to the Dark Forest. He was effectively brainwashed into believing killing his former comrades was right, because in his mind and the minds and his new family, they were the ones that were brainwashed. He still had a concept of right and wrong, so he knew what he was doing was wrong, but didn't care. It also helped that the person in charge was actually his kin (his grandfather, I believe). Please say you're talking about Echoes of the War! The way it was done there was completely realistic, Warriors-wise and fit very well. There was a discussion a few days ago about how a handful of us wished that series was the AVOS arc. If not that's not the one you're talking about...my bad ;p
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Post by wheeledwarrior on May 12, 2018 20:05:19 GMT -5
I am. I won't say more due to spoilers, since the event happens fairly late in the series.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on May 12, 2018 20:40:00 GMT -5
In the one story where this did happen, the young cat did go to the Dark Forest. He was effectively brainwashed into believing killing his former comrades was right, because in his mind and the minds and his new family, they were the ones that were brainwashed. He still had a concept of right and wrong, so he knew what he was doing was wrong, but didn't care. It also helped that the person in charge was actually his kin (his grandfather, I believe). Please say you're talking about Echoes of the War! The way it was done there was completely realistic, Warriors-wise and fit very well. There was a discussion a few days ago about how a handful of us wished that series was the AVOS arc. If not that's not the one you're talking about...my bad ;p i want to read this but I can't figure out which is the first one I need to read
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 12, 2018 20:44:53 GMT -5
Please say you're talking about Echoes of the War! The way it was done there was completely realistic, Warriors-wise and fit very well. There was a discussion a few days ago about how a handful of us wished that series was the AVOS arc. If not that's not the one you're talking about...my bad ;p i want to read this but I can't figure out which is the first one I need to read I love EOTW! This is the first one, Pan. www.fanfiction.net/s/8040505/1/Warriors-Echoes-of-the-War-Faded-Boundaries
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 12, 2018 21:06:38 GMT -5
Or if you like AO3, here it is: archiveofourown.org/series/280959 it's in order there. I usually prefer AO3, because they have the Full Chapter thing, so in case my internet goes out, I don't panic and have nothing to read when it's getting to the good parts lol RAMBLE AHEAD FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW HOW I GET:
(spoiler safe, though, I think) On that note, funny enough, I had a bit of an issue as I do with canon Warriors, which is that one of the POV characters drives me crazy. I'm not sure why this is the case with each series, excluding TPB, since all we had was Firestar. In this case, it was Silentkit/paw/you'll-see-her-warrior-name-later. I don't know what it is, but her POV could be extremely aggravating at times, though that's just me personally. Her attitude really grated my nerves, so I enjoyed Blaze's more. Well, his and others -- won't get into detail, since it's as late in the books as you get (last book) and I won't spoil it. It wasn't anything on Jayie's part, though, because I know that's how Silent was meant to be written...I think, anyway. But yeah, it's still awesome. So many characters (including Silent herself, despite what I just said) are fleshed out wonderfully. The novellas are just as great, too. With the canon novellas, I don't care for them much and didn't reread them after the first time, but the way Jayie writes hers, I enjoy learning about even those characters, which sort of surprised me. She just finished Shrewfoot's Spite and it was such a good read. I think she's got another novella planned, so I'm interested in seeing what character she explores. Unfortunately, I'm 99% sure I read on FF after the sixth book that she won't be making another series attached to this one, because she wants to concentrate on her novel. Damn if I wouldn't like reading about the new generation of kits from the EOTW characters. I also mentioned it before, but Trail of Ashes is my favorite of them all, because so much good stuff happens. Everything was already nuts, but then stuff really hit the fan. I was on the edge of my seat the whole way through -- talk about an adventure from start to end. If you guys wish canon handled deaths better, then you'll probably like EOTW. Jayie pulled no punches and it threw me back to vibes from the first series, when we didn't know who'd die or who had an important plot...or a mix of both, because some were very important, yet still died. Not gonna lie: quite a few death scenes hurt me, but mostly because I didn't see them coming, and didn't think Jayie would kill them off in the way they died, or even kill them at all. The villains, minor or major, are A+, with several being in shades of gray, while others I just straight up hated, and a few I sympathized with. I seriously do wish that it was how AVOS was. Sorry I keep gushing every time the topic comes up lol! I'm just bitter it isn't canon, because there would've been some good topics/discussions about it here if it were.
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Post by Eyfex on May 13, 2018 9:06:39 GMT -5
Much like in real life, children (Up to 11 in most places) can't be charged with adult crimes as they don't have the cognitive ability to understand what they are doing. Then, teenagers up until 18 are usually put on trial differently than adults as they're still not mature enough but more cognitive than children.
I'd say the same goes for Warriors. Kits are always innocent, and apprentices can be punished in the mortal life (Perhaps even up to exile) but not in the afterlife.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on May 13, 2018 10:28:14 GMT -5
Much like in real life, children (Up to 11 in most places) can't be charged with adult crimes as they don't have the cognitive ability to understand what they are doing. Then, teenagers up until 18 are usually put on trial differently than adults as they're still not mature enough but more cognitive than children. I'd say the same goes for Warriors. Kits are always innocent, and apprentices can be punished in the mortal life (Perhaps even up to exile) but not in the afterlife. If the apprentice was punished that badly in the mortal life, why wouldn't they be punished in the afterlife? Considering almost everyone else who does a crime worthy of exile is punished in the afterlife, unless they are proven innocent or show proof beyond any doubt that they're trying to make amends… And I wouldn't say that kits are always innocent… Initially, yes, but that doesn't mean they can't be manipulated to do violent crimes by someone else (like the example I posted above with the evil kit)… Not to mention even with some of the lighter punishments seen in the series, there are times when the kits are clearly not innocent (e.g. Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze sneaking out of camp as kits even though they were told repeatedly that it they couldn't and knew they were breaking rules; end result was that they almost got themselves killed and the offense was so severe that Bramblestar, as deputy, wanted to make them wait a moon for their apprenticeship; instead, Firestar confined them to the nursery)… And I believe if crimes of severe enough, children can be tried as adults (e.g. murder)… So anyone that does a crime like murder would probably be tried as an adult in the Warriors world, regardless of age… (Like the example in the fan fiction I posted above, where there was a kit easily and not regretfully manipulated into almost killing others, and paid the price like an adult would)… I really wish there Erins explored this concept and the idea of morality a bit more, but it would probably be something darker than they are willing to write…
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