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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 11:45:41 GMT -5
Part of me wonders if Squirrel x Bramble should have been a thing at all due to their arguments. They both communicate, but I feel like they don't treat each other right. While she was right and I agreed with her, I felt that Squirrelflight was too harsh on Brambleclaw about the situation with Hawkfrost. She didn't try to understand that he wanted to bond with his brother. I do have a theory that maybe she was jealous he spent so much time with Hawkfrost, but that excuses nothing, and she was avoiding him and giving him the cold shoulder.
On the other hand, Brambleclaw wasn't innocent either. He lied to Squirrelflight about the Dark Forest. If she knew he was plotting to kill her dad then she'd have left him right then and there, without a doubt. I also felt it was ridiculous how he gave her the cold shoulder for many years after the truth came out by Hollyleaf. While he had the right to be angry with her, I felt that he too didn't try to understand her until she stood up for herself and got fed up with his treatment. At least she truly felt what she did was right, whereas Brambleclaw was hanging out with bad guys plotting to kill Firestar.
What do you think? Imo Squirrelflight deserves better, or she should've stayed single. I don't like Bramblestar very much so I may be biased, but I always felt he was harder on her than she was to him.
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Post by mothsnap on May 9, 2018 12:07:59 GMT -5
Brambleclaw didn’t have an obligation to tell Squirrelflight since they weren’t in a relationship at the time. Squirrelflight was technically with Ashfur. They hadn’t got together and Squirrelflight was already trying to control his relationship with his brother. Hawkfrost didn’t even do anything wrong yet to her knowledge. Also squid was really lazy when the cats got to the lake. Brambleclaw called her out on it and Squirrelflight accused him of being too ambitious. It was ridiculous
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 12:17:37 GMT -5
Brambleclaw didn’t have an obligation to tell Squirrelflight since they weren’t in a relationship at the time. Squirrelflight was technically with Ashfur. They hadn’t got together and Squirrelflight was already trying to control his relationship with his brother. Hawkfrost didn’t even do anything wrong yet to her knowledge. Also squid was really lazy when the cats got to the lake. Brambleclaw called her out on it and Squirrelflight accused him of being too ambitious. It was ridiculous Bramble was still stupid about the whole thing though. He knew what his father was capable of and yet he still went after him in the Dark Forest. And Squirrel x Ash was never a thing. She saw him as a friend and nothing more. But I have a theory that Squirrel was probably jealous of Bramble being around Hawk so much and I think that's why she was so harsh to him, but she was also being protective and was simply worried about him. She may not have handled this right but she had good intentions. Bramble was just being stupid. I'm almost positive there were a few scenes that Hawk was willing to follow his father's plans to help Bramble become deputy. Bramble was stupid. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 12:19:00 GMT -5
I agree with you, Aqua, as well as mothsnap. I wish they hadn't gotten together after BrS. It felt something wasn't right there -- not the fact that he made her deputy, but how it was done, I guess? I don't know if that makes sense. But them remaining just friends feels like it would've fit better. It was probably forced for the sake of AVOS, which was wasted potential because their kits got tossed aside in the end. |
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 9, 2018 12:44:09 GMT -5
I agree with you, Aqua, as well as mothsnap. I wish they hadn't gotten together after BrS. It felt something wasn't right there -- not the fact that he made her deputy, but how it was done, I guess? I don't know if that makes sense. But them remaining just friends feels like it would've fit better. It was probably forced for the sake of AVOS, which was wasted potential because their kits got tossed aside in the end. Probably...which sucks, because they had a family. They raised kits. It's okay to have a family, then the parents decide they aren't compatible. They did that with DaisySpider, and it could've been done -- or arguably more meaningful -- with SquirrelBramble. They had two sons and a daughter already, and really didn't need Alderheart and his siblings. Them having another litter with no acknowledgement at all after OOTS that they raised Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze (except that part of BrS when they all went on that patrol together) and that they were their parents left a bad taste in my mouth. Alderheart repeatedly thinks of Squirrelflight and Bramblestar as his parents, but he certainly feels no kinship toward Jayfeather and Lionblaze. It's like BrambleSquirrel just had their first and only litter. If they wanted new POV kits of main characters, they should've just used LionCinder. What was the purpose of building those two up and their whole stupid drama if they became irrelevant? Worse yet, LionCinder have a second litter, too, so more irrelevant cats, when this could've been avoided if BrambleSquirrel had just remained friends. Just...just wtf? Sorry for the brief rant, but man does this irritate me ;p |
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Post by briarfrost on May 9, 2018 13:38:39 GMT -5
If she knew he was plotting to kill her dad then she'd have left him right then and there, without a doubt. He wasn't, though. Yeah, training with Tigerstar was sketchy, but Tigerstar hadn't told him "I want you to kill Firestar" yet. And when he did, Bramble chose to save Firestar. Like I think he should have come clean about the Dark Forest, maybe not right after they got back together, but eventually. But he wasn't plotting treason. |
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Post by Amberfoot on May 9, 2018 14:07:30 GMT -5
It was probably forced for the sake of AVOS, which was wasted potential because their kits got tossed aside in the end. Probably...which sucks, because they had a family. They raised kits. It's okay to have a family, then the parents decide they aren't compatible. They did that with DaisySpider, and it could've been done -- or arguably more meaningful -- with SquirrelBramble. They had two sons and a daughter already, and really didn't need Alderheart and his siblings. Them having another litter with no acknowledgement at all after OOTS that they raised Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze (except that part of BrS when they all went on that patrol together) and that they were their parents left a bad taste in my mouth. Alderheart repeatedly thinks of Squirrelflight and Bramblestar as his parents, but he certainly feels no kinship toward Jayfeather and Lionblaze. It's like BrambleSquirrel just had their first and only litter. If they wanted new POV kits of main characters, they should've just used LionCinder. What was the purpose of building those two up and their whole stupid drama if they became irrelevant? Worse yet, LionCinder have a second litter, too, so more irrelevant cats, when this could've been avoided if BrambleSquirrel had just remained friends. Just...just wtf? Sorry for the brief rant, but man does this irritate me ;p Yes, I totally agree! I think the perfect start to AVOS would be if Lion and Cinder had kits after BrS and they could be the POV for AVOS, and Squirrel/Bramble just made up their differences and remaind parents to Jay and Lion. That would have been best because I mean, they are quite old and it's time that new characters have families. Now Lion and Cinder have this useless second litter where the first litter really had some cool cats that ended up getting entirely brushed aside (What happened to Hollytuft?? What's her story and personality? I thought they said she was just like Hollyleaf?) and I wished we had gotten the chance to know those cats instead. I think this came about to me when I realized after Shattered Sky that there was no need for Alderheart's POV, and then I got to thinking that there was also no need for him or Spark to be related at all to Squirrel/Bramble. |
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 9, 2018 17:12:23 GMT -5
Probably...which sucks, because they had a family. They raised kits. It's okay to have a family, then the parents decide they aren't compatible. They did that with DaisySpider, and it could've been done -- or arguably more meaningful -- with SquirrelBramble. They had two sons and a daughter already, and really didn't need Alderheart and his siblings. Them having another litter with no acknowledgement at all after OOTS that they raised Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze (except that part of BrS when they all went on that patrol together) and that they were their parents left a bad taste in my mouth. Alderheart repeatedly thinks of Squirrelflight and Bramblestar as his parents, but he certainly feels no kinship toward Jayfeather and Lionblaze. It's like BrambleSquirrel just had their first and only litter. If they wanted new POV kits of main characters, they should've just used LionCinder. What was the purpose of building those two up and their whole stupid drama if they became irrelevant? Worse yet, LionCinder have a second litter, too, so more irrelevant cats, when this could've been avoided if BrambleSquirrel had just remained friends. Just...just wtf? Sorry for the brief rant, but man does this irritate me ;p Yes, I totally agree! I think the perfect start to AVOS would be if Lion and Cinder had kits after BrS and they could be the POV for AVOS, and Squirrel/Bramble just made up their differences and remaind parents to Jay and Lion. That would have been best because I mean, they are quite old and it's time that new characters have families. Now Lion and Cinder have this useless second litter where the first litter really had some cool cats that ended up getting entirely brushed aside (What happened to Hollytuft?? What's her story and personality? I thought they said she was just like Hollyleaf?) and I wished we had gotten the chance to know those cats instead. I think this came about to me when I realized after Shattered Sky that there was no need for Alderheart's POV, and then I got to thinking that there was also no need for him or Spark to be related at all to Squirrel/Bramble. I'm definitely bitter that we don't get more from the LionCinder litter...at least Fern is sorta relevant. He has one of my top five favorite prefixes, as is the Holly prefix. Not seeing anything at all from her grinds my gears. Yeah, that's what I said in another post, too! Even just keeping Fern, Sorrel, and Holly for LionCinder, then Alder could've been LilySnow's only kit in their first litter; later, they have a second litter of two to work as Twig's adopted siblings who ignored her. Hell, one could've been Spark, and her spot of someone that Alder's jealous of could be replaced by Sorrel or Holly. Granted, they'd be older than Alder, but who the heck cares at this point. Same/better outcome, but less characters to worry about. At the end of the day, ThC is so blotted with useless characters that the last thing they needed was a BrambleSquirrel litter, and now yet another LionCinder litter, and BlossomThorn and IvyFern. Why don't these editors plan stuff out? All they have to do is move timelines around a little and take out a mateship (BrambleSquirrel) and stop another litter (LionCinder). |
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Post by Amber on May 10, 2018 8:01:52 GMT -5
Honestly they should've had Squirrelflight and Bramblestar try the relationship out and when they realized it wouldn't work, they should've remained friends. From there Brambleclaw could've gotten with Whitewing(Because she's literally the only other she-cat without a mate and close enough to his age and I liked the brother-sister dynamic between her and Birch anyway so he could've stayed single) and Squirrelflight get with Shrewpaw(If he lived) or Rainwhisker. Then if they still wanted a direct descendant of Firestar and Tigerstar get together, then a kit of Brambleclaw and kit of Squirrelflight could've done just that. PoT and OotS also could've been about the prophecy and either focus on Jay, Holly and Lion or one of Leafpool's kit, one of Bramblerclaw's/Whitewing's kit and one of Squirrelflight's kits. As much as I love Squirrellfight, it really bothered me how she handled the situation with Hawkfrost and I never liked Brambleclaw's reaction to the secret being revealed. They weren't right for each other and I wish they had gotten with different cats.
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Post by Ligerfrost on May 10, 2018 12:31:57 GMT -5
If she knew he was plotting to kill her dad then she'd have left him right then and there, without a doubt. He wasn't, though. Yeah, training with Tigerstar was sketchy, but Tigerstar hadn't told him "I want you to kill Firestar" yet. And when he did, Bramble chose to save Firestar. Like I think he should have come clean about the Dark Forest, maybe not right after they got back together, but eventually. But he wasn't plotting treason. Yeah Tigerstar never once mentioned that he was plotting to kill Firestar to Bramblestar that was why Bramblestar was confused as to why Hawkfrost tried to stop him from saving Firestar when he saw him in the foxtrap. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on May 10, 2018 12:35:21 GMT -5
Bramblestar still trained with Tigerstar regardless of his intentions. He knew what Tigerstar had done and instead of asking about his father from his mother or dropping the subject and just getting to know his brother, he trained in cat hell. If people are going to hold that against Lionblaze, hold it against Bramblestar, especially when he showed clear hesitation in saving Firestar. |
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 10, 2018 13:18:34 GMT -5
He wasn't, though. Yeah, training with Tigerstar was sketchy, but Tigerstar hadn't told him "I want you to kill Firestar" yet. And when he did, Bramble chose to save Firestar. Like I think he should have come clean about the Dark Forest, maybe not right after they got back together, but eventually. But he wasn't plotting treason. Yeah Tigerstar never once mentioned that he was plotting to kill Firestar to Bramblestar that was why Bramblestar was confused as to why Hawkfrost tried to stop him from saving Firestar when he saw him in the foxtrap. Bramblestar knew Tigerstar had tried to murder Firestar/slaughter all of ThunderClan countless times. He was there at the encounter with BloodClan and when Tigerstar killed Runningwind and Brindleface, then dog pack attack later. Even outside that, the three of them actually did talk about killing all the leaders. In their last dream before Hawkfrost died, they were talking in detail about trapping the leaders on the island and killing them during the full moon, while having a few loyal warriors cutting off the route off the island. One of Tigerstar's quotes was, “You will never be a powerful leader if you keep cringing to StarClan. Or if you’re afraid to get blood on your paws” during that dream. I just reread the scene and Bramblestar was confused for a brief second, then realized aloud what was going on, which Hawkfrost confirmed. They stood there for a couple moments while Bramblestar hesitated, listening to Tigerstar's (imagined?) voice, and thinking about how only six lives stood between him and leadership, and how easy it would be. Bramblestar isn't dumb, guys. He knew what he was doing and what the plan was. Tigerstar wasn't exactly talking about hugging the other leaders into submission to make them give up their Clans. Edit: By the way, I know he did protest the idea of killing at the Gathering, but both of you said that Tigerstar never once talked about actual murder. They definitely did talk about it, and then he later considered it with Firestar. Tigerstar's plans always include murder lol that's what he does. Bramblestar has plenty evidence of that. |
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