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Post by suicunetobigaara on May 9, 2018 6:55:44 GMT -5
I ponder this because instead of the many cats that Bramblestar had interacted with during his life time, the Erins (or editors) had Lionheart give him a life. Lionheart, a cat that died before he was born or died when he was a newborn!
There were plenty of other cats that had been alive and spoken to Bramblestar during his life, that was in Starclan when he gained his lives. He could have gotten a life from Sorreltail, Longtail, Honeyfern, or Hollyleaf (I don't really get why Hollyleaf couldn't be there for obvious reasons, yet could say hello to Leafpool?). Heck even Ashfur (if he was reformed) could have given a life about forgiveness, or clear sightedness, or something. Not that I would particularly want Ashfur to give Bramblestar a life, but it would have been better than Lionheart.
There were even more background characters than that which would have made more sense, like, Willowpelt, Rainwhisker, Sootfur, Shrewpaw, Hollykit or Larchkit, Molepaw, Whitestorm or Yellowfang. Whitestorm could have exactly fit Lionheart's role, he was alive longer so Bramblestar could have known him, and learned from his nobility and work ethic when he was younger.
All I could do was label Lionheart's inclusion as fanservice. Why else would he be in there? At least Bramblestar met and got advice from Ravenpaw about if the Sun-Drown Place was real, Cinderpelt was alive and served the clan when Bramblestar was alive and read prophecies about him, Feathertail went and died on the journey back from Sun-drown Place, Bluestar was leader when Bramblestar was little, Firestar was the leader before him and a cat Brambelstar looked up to, Ferncloud was around when he was alive and important part of the clan, and Goldenflower was his mother. Lionheart seems to stand out like a sore thumb to me.
What do you guys think, is having Lionheart give Bramblestar a life justified? Who would you replace him with if you had the power? Who were you happy to see give Bramblestar give a life? Let me know.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 9, 2018 7:00:59 GMT -5
Lionheart was Bramblestar's uncle, and it wouldn't be the first time leaders were given lives by cats they've never met. However, I do get what you're saying. Hollyleaf especially should've given him a life.
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Post by suicunetobigaara on May 9, 2018 7:13:05 GMT -5
Lionheart was Bramblestar's uncle, and it wouldn't be the first time leaders were given lives by cats they've never met. However, I do get what you're saying. Hollyleaf especially should've given him a life. True, but usually not many cats close enough to the leader has died for, like Crookedstar had a few randoms, as did Raggedstar I think. Even Brokenstar and Tigerstar had a few randoms, but one could argue they weren't close enough to anyone that died to truly fill out the nine lives roster. But Bramblestar has met so many cats that haven't made it, and they would have been more meaningful than Lionheart. |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 9, 2018 7:51:15 GMT -5
Lionheart was Bramblestar's uncle, and it wouldn't be the first time leaders were given lives by cats they've never met. However, I do get what you're saying. Hollyleaf especially should've given him a life. True, but usually not many cats close enough to the leader has died for, like Crookedstar had a few randoms, as did Raggedstar I think. Even Brokenstar and Tigerstar had a few randoms, but one could argue they weren't close enough to anyone that died to truly fill out the nine lives roster. But Bramblestar has met so many cats that haven't made it, and they would have been more meaningful than Lionheart. Agreed. If not Hollyleaf or even Ashfur, I feel like even Swiftpaw would've worked better than Lionheart, or Sorreltail. |
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Post by suicunetobigaara on May 9, 2018 8:13:05 GMT -5
True, but usually not many cats close enough to the leader has died for, like Crookedstar had a few randoms, as did Raggedstar I think. Even Brokenstar and Tigerstar had a few randoms, but one could argue they weren't close enough to anyone that died to truly fill out the nine lives roster. But Bramblestar has met so many cats that haven't made it, and they would have been more meaningful than Lionheart. Agreed. If not Hollyleaf or even Ashfur, I feel like even Swiftpaw would've worked better than Lionheart, or Sorreltail. I am forever sad at the fact that Swiftpaw and Bramblestar never had a relationship to look into. Swift was Bramble's older brother after all. You are right, he would have been a better pick than Lionheart, closer in relation and Swift was at least alive longer in Bramble's life than Lionheart. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 9:57:28 GMT -5
How I think it should've been:
Whitestorm
Shrewpaw
Mousefur
Cinderpelt
Goldenflower
Feathertail
Bluestar
Firestar
Hollyleaf
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on May 9, 2018 10:02:49 GMT -5
Hollyleaf!
Also when you said fanservice, I confess my first thought was "Ew, they're cats, screw you." : P
But yeah, it's common knowledge Erins don't keep good track of family trees. All the same, you'd think at least Hollyleaf would get a chance.
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Post by mothsnap on May 9, 2018 10:39:17 GMT -5
Tons! Actually all nine cats that gave him his lives were nude.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on May 9, 2018 11:12:31 GMT -5
Agreed. If not Hollyleaf or even Ashfur, I feel like even Swiftpaw would've worked better than Lionheart, or Sorreltail. I am forever sad at the fact that Swiftpaw and Bramblestar never had a relationship to look into. Swift was Bramble's older brother after all. You are right, he would have been a better pick than Lionheart, closer in relation and Swift was at least alive longer in Bramble's life than Lionheart. This. |
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Post by Brindlefern on May 9, 2018 18:42:07 GMT -5
I saw an interesting theory post somewhere explaining most of Bramblestar's lives and pointed out that a most of the cats that gave him lives were not all exactly close to him but cats that were wronged by Tigerstar or were alive at his time.
Firestar was Tigerstar's nemisis
Goldenflower was his ex mate, the mother of his kits, and was betrayed by him
Bluestar almost got killed by him directly. And he managed to indirectly do so through the dog attack.
Mousefur was alive during his time, with her brother Runningwind being killed by him.
While Lionheart wasn't killed by him, he too was alive during his time and was a senior alongside him for a good while.
Ferncloud was alive during his time, and her own mother was killed by him, and was killed by his long-time ally Brokenstar.
Cinderpelt, her injury was caused by his stunt with the thunderpath
Feathertail was threatened to be murdered by Tigerstar for being half-clan when she was an apprentice.
And Ravenpaw was forced to leave thunderclan or else get killed by Tigerstar.
Most the cats were more or less wronged by Bramblestar's father, and Bramblestar's leadership ceremony was probably a symbol on how Bramblestar basically proved himself to not follow his own father's tyrant ways by becoming a leader through good means rather than follow his footsteps. Now that probably isn't the case and I do agree they could've used different cats (Like Runningwind instead of Mousefur for ex.. And Lionheart has no reason to be there looking at it now and probably would've fit to have Holly in his place, as she was killed by Tiger's other son Hawkfrost), and and there's probably just gonna be a BS reason for all of them but... when you think about it, there's still a line you could see through with most of them.
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Post by Ligerfrost on May 10, 2018 12:44:49 GMT -5
In all fairness the only cat who could have replaced Lionheart would probably be Hollyleaf as everyone else has less development of simply didn't interact with him enough to have any true meaning. Lionheart at the very least was his mother's brother and while he had a limited time as deputy he past on a piece of wisdom that he felt Bramblestar was lacking or something that needed to be enhanced. Which seems to be the common theme with life giving every car gives something that they feel the leader lacks or needs to work on in hopes they become a better leader. Whether the leader takes heed of those gifts is another story. But the cat who gives the life has that gift while they lived or learned it before their death. I'm not sure what Hollyleaf would have gave him.
On a side note (because I still think it's funny he became deputy) if Crowfeather managed to become leader and Hollyleaf have him a life how mad you be?
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on May 10, 2018 16:03:15 GMT -5
Hollyleaf
Firestar
Goldenflower
Swiftpaw
Flametail (Nephew)
Sorreltail
Mousefur
Ferncloud
?????
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 15:11:03 GMT -5
Well considering the Erins said Hollyleaf didn't give Brambleclaw a life, was for 'obvious reasons'. Which I think is implies to her murder and attempted murder. Even if Hollyleaf made it to Starclan, she's still completely out of the hot water yet. Being resited to what she can do as a Starclan cat. Maybe unable to give lives or send prophecies/omens.
And this would apply to Ashfur as well.
And since you're asking for my own person version of Bramblestar's nine lives, I don't care, I'd use it to retcon Ashfur being in Starclan. So near the end of the ceremony, Brambleclaw looks around and mentions he's surpised he hasn't seen Ashfur yet. Where it received that Ashfur being in Starclan was only temporary, to stop the Dark Forest growing any stronger. So once they were weakened enough during the Great Battle, Ashfur was sent there.
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