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Post by Darkfang ☾ on May 2, 2018 15:53:36 GMT -5
so do you think had pinestar stayed in thunderclan and raised his son properly that tigerstar could have been a good warrior or do you think it wouldn't have made much of a difference to his path?
i personally think it could have helped tigerstar a lot had his father stayed in the clan. here's why:
in bluestar's prophecy tigerkit asks his father if he will play with him and pinestar just says 'not today'. tigerkit then begs him to play with him. poor kit will likely feel rejected and unwanted.
then in spottedleaf's heart spottedleaf says that tigerpaw is so angry at the time and feels he has something to prove with his father leaving. it's also said that some cats almost make fun of it. this will make tigerpaw feel even more angry. also i was surprised at how thistleclaw spoke about tigerpaw behind his back in this book. if even his mentor doesn't think well of him, tigerpaw is going to really feel rejected and like he has something to prove.
finally, tigerpaw hates all things kittypet which may be as a result of pinestar's decision to become a kittypet. it's almost like a resentment thing.
so ultimately i think had pinestar stayed, tigerstar wouldn't feel unwanted or like he had anything to prove. he could have even felt the opposite as having your father as clan leader is a big deal.
what do you think anyway?
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Post by Amberfoot on May 2, 2018 16:13:20 GMT -5
I agree. I really felt bad for young Tigerkit. Pinestar was a terrible dad/leader/cat. He just never seemed like he cared about him at all. Him leaving really hurt any chances for Tiger to ever be redeemed, thus he grew up fairly aggressive. It seems like he always had to defend himself from others thinking ill of his father for becoming a pet.
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Post by Tas on May 2, 2018 16:55:33 GMT -5
I don't think it would have changed that much. Maybe, but it's unlikely. Thistleclaw still would have been a bad influence.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on May 2, 2018 17:39:25 GMT -5
I think he woudknt of hated kittypets so much but would of still been evil.
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nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
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Post by nightfrost1211 on May 2, 2018 17:48:38 GMT -5
While Thistleclaw forcing Tigerpaw to follow in his evil footsteps could have still happened if he had stayed, I highly doubt it. In Pinestar's choice, the Starclan cats said that it was his duty to make his son a good and non-evil warrior, but what did he do instead? Abandoned his mate, kits, entire clan, and fled to the convenient Twolegplace because he was a SCAREDY-CAT! (sorry no better pun to explain this with) Pinestar was such a wimp and defeated easily, and even though he was kinda mean during his deputyship, he was way better back then. The Starclan cats could have just been desperate to stop Tigerstar before he killed anyone, thus saying Pinestar was the only cat who could change him, but I think he really could have stopped his son.
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Post by Amberfoot on May 3, 2018 7:56:58 GMT -5
Was Sunstar the one who appointed Thistleclaw as Tigerpaw's mentor? I mean what a huge mistake that was... he should have had someone like Bluefur mentor him.
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on May 3, 2018 22:08:26 GMT -5
It would've been better for everyone
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Post by anxi0us on May 5, 2018 7:47:24 GMT -5
Oh lord, please use correct punctuation...
Sorry, I had to say something .-.
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Post by mothsnap on May 5, 2018 16:38:00 GMT -5
It wouldn't change much. If you guys have read Pinestar's choice, it pretty much explains that Tigerstar was destined to do the things he did and Pinestar left so he would have to kill his own son. This pretty much confirms there's nothing anyone could have done.
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Post by mothsnap on May 5, 2018 16:40:23 GMT -5
Plus Tigerstar hating kittypets has nothing to do with anything. It wasn't even part of the plot. He hated Firestar, but Tigerstar never killed kittypets or anything like that. He kill half clan cats so I really don't see how Pinestar not being a kittypet would make a difference.
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Post by mothsnap on May 5, 2018 16:42:19 GMT -5
Also assuming there was no prophecy in the first place and that Pinestar had stayed. It would be the same for this reason. Oakstar is Pinestar's dad and Tigerclaw would have been expected to be leader also. The Erins have said Tigerstar had natural ambition. Who's to say he wouldn't have taken over the clans for ThunderClan once he got that leadership? He might not have had to kill his clanmates to get to that point, but at some point TigerClan would still happen.
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Post by mothsnap on May 5, 2018 18:34:38 GMT -5
Also not to keep hammering the point in, but Pinestar was super old with 1 life left. how much longer could he have possibly lived if he hadn't left? he probably would have been dead before tigerstar was apprenticed, or shortly afterwards. there are so many other influences on tigerstar's life. to assume it all happened because of pinestar is giving him too much credit and sort of undercutting tigerstar as a villain
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Post by Brindlefern on May 5, 2018 19:21:29 GMT -5
Pinestar legit was being told my StarClan to kill his own son though and a big reason why he left was so he wouldn't do it. Yeah that was... really messed up for Starclan to do. |
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Post by lollycat on May 5, 2018 19:55:08 GMT -5
I believe that Tigerkit was evil at birth. If I remember right he had two female siblings who were stronger than him at birth but both of them died. I can not prove this but I think he killed them. Pinestar leaving did not cause Tigerclaw to turn evil. Evil was always in him.  |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 5, 2018 19:56:48 GMT -5
Vicky said he was destined to be evil, though Pinestar staying might've made him less dreadful.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 5, 2018 20:04:14 GMT -5
I believe that Tigerkit was evil at birth. If I remember right he had two female siblings who were stronger than him at birth but both of them died. I can not prove this but I think he killed them. Pinestar leaving did not cause Tigerclaw to turn evil. Evil was always in him. That doesn't make any sense. Why would a kit do anything like that? Besides, Leopardfoot went into labor for a long time, and all three of her kits were born weak and fragile because they were born a moon early. It just so happened that Tigerkit, the weakest of the litter, survived. Nightkit and Mistkit were sick. Their deaths had nothing to do with their brother killing them. |
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on May 5, 2018 23:12:04 GMT -5
Pinestar legit was being told my StarClan to kill his own son though and a big reason why he left was so he wouldn't do it. Yeah that was... really messed up for Starclan to do. Exactly. I felt bad for him. |
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on May 5, 2018 23:56:50 GMT -5
Yeah that was... really messed up for Starclan to do. Exactly. I felt bad for him. Yeah. It was pretty goddamn dark in a way Warriors not normally is, IMO. In the end, if he'd stayed he probably would've made the situation even worse by being such a distant father or something of the sort. Tigerstar was always going to have hate in him. |
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