Onestar during Windclan Civil War/Mudclaw's Rebellion.

Or or.....Onestar had no right to leadership in the first place, therefore Mudclaw was in the right to challenge him. On top of that Onestar practically had his head up ThunderCLan's butt since the start, so oh well if Mudclaw gets outside help too.

Mudclaw unsurprisingly still has a good amount of hate thrown at him because people still think he's some mastermind villain. When it's already shown in canon that he's not and that Hawkfrost was manipulating him, then even tried to kill him when his plan unraveled to keep him quiet. People also ignore the fact that Tallstar's nightmare was just a dream, not an omen, that in it wasn't even Mudclaw, it was some rando kitty. The tree that fell on Mudclaw was just a coincidence, not sent by StarClan, but the cats still saw it as a sign of that. And that it's stated Mudclaw literally strove not to be like Brokenstar or Tigerstar, he hates both of their guts. Onestar was the one who involved other clans in a civil war first, on top of that he literally became everything Tallstar feared, ironically. And Tallstar even admitted to being too stubborn to own up to his mistake, and when he does see Onestar again he beats the tar out of a StarClan cat, smh. Meanwhile, the next time we see Mudclaw, he's preparing and helping in the battle against the Dark Forest. Oh wow, what a horrible cat.

Mudclaw will always be the rightful deputy and leader to me. Since when can a cat with NO LEADERSHIP SKILLS OR EXPERIENCE become LEADER without having served as DEPUTY. That is literally against the code! Who cares if he was "deputy" for like a few seconds before Tallstar died!? ONESTAR DID NOT SERVE AS DEPUTY. Tallstar's word is WRONG and that's part of the reason that code is stupid. It causes too many problems like this where the leader is so old and sick that he is delusional and his "word" goes against the code!

Onewhisker was weak minded because he let Firestar and Brambleclaw PEER PRESSURE HIM into accepting Tallstar's dying wish even though it was clearly against the code! And also, the other big point is, how in the world did Windclan even believe Onewhisker? How did he have ANY supporters? The clan knows who led them during the journey, and that was Mudclaw because Tallstar was too sick and old to lead. How did Onewhisker have anyone on his side when the only other cats that witnessed Tallstar's death were Thunderclan!

The whole topic makes me mad and I hate Onestar so much.

I have no idea what Tallstar was thinking announcing Onestar as his deputy on his deathbed with the only two witnesses being Firestar, Onestar's friend from another clan, and Brambleclaw, Firestar's former apprentice. I honestly don't blame Mudclaw for thinking Onestar and ThuderClan were conspiring against him.

Mudclaw's actions WAS for the good of the clan, he was doing it with them in mind, not just because he rightfully deserved to be leader. Mudclaw served as the deputy, Mudclaw led the cats to their new territory and made sure they got a good piece of land they could defend and call home. Mudclaw was leading the clan when Tallstar couldn't. He had every right to challenge Onestar when the only witnesses was a former kittypet, Firestar, and the son of Tigerstar, whom he's known for hating, both of them were ThunderClan cats at that. Onestar didn't even have the courage to tell WindClan himself and had Firestar do it, he didn't even initially wanted to be leader. He involved help from the outside first, there were no key witnesses to the changes, no other WindClan cats to vouch for Onestar, nothing. And even Bramblestar noted he felt guilty for withholding information about the so-called "ceremony" which wasn't even done properly, they were lying. The only reason Onestar even got leadership at that moment was that his medicine cat backed him up even if they didn't witness the ceremony too.

Why should Mudclaw help a cat that didn't even serve as deputy? Onestar has done nothing to earn his respect or the rest of the clan. All he did was act like a coward, he was only even chosen by Tallstar based on his relationship with another Clan. WindClan wants to be independent not locked to the hip with ThunderClan of all cats. The other cats encouraged Mudclaw to rebell, so he did, Hawkfrost offered his help, so he took it. Even ShadowClan cats were supporting him, believing he truly was the rightful leader. Hawkfrost said the same under a guise, he was using Mudclaw while Mudclaw thought his support was genuine. And when Hawkfrost was in hot water for his actions he literally tried to kill Mudclaw while he was telling Bramblestar the truth about his plan. That how the tree fell on both of them, Hawkfrost was chasing Mudclaw down, and Hawkfrost made it out, not Mudclaw. He then used Mudclaw's body, begged forgiveness, and Mudclaw couldn't even defend his own case because he was dead. Even Squirrelflight believed Mudclaw over a snake like Hawkfrost.

And as of AVoS, Onestar has even less of a right to be leader when he was running around with a kittypet, and having kits with her. Then neglects her until most of the little dies, and when she begs to for his help again, he denies her just because he fears how the Clan would view him for his disgusting cowardly actions. In the long run, Onestar was a horrible leader, even if Mudclaw had guided him, he still caused the crap that happened with Darktail later down the line. And I still doubt he would have remained friends with Firestar, because if he did, then the cats, along with Mudclaw would still continue to see him as a weak leader. In fact he probably would have just ended up like Rowanstar.

I'd just like to point out two things here:

The situation between Greystripe vs Brambleclaw and Onewhisker vs Mudclaw are not comparable. With Thunderclan, it was done as an official ceremony in front of the whole Clan, the leader having time to think it over and with overwhelming witnesses, to confirmed there were no lies. Meanwhile, there were only three witnesses, two which were Thunderclan and Onewhisker himself, cats that would only benefit from it. So it's very suspicious and they could easily of been lying. Even then, Tallstar was dying at the time, so his mental state clearly wouldn't of been good. 

Also both Greystripe and Brambleclaw both had equal right to the deputy/leader postion. With both having a decent amount of experience with the position. And Brambleclaw was appointed deputy when Greystripe had meaning missing for serval seasons, most likely dead or never return. Meanwhile, Onewhisker becomes deputy when Mudclaw was alive healthy within Windclan and had done nothing wrong.  

A better comparison to this, is another rebellion, led by Nightstar against Brokenstar. Where he got another Clan involved and sent serval cats into exile, without fair trial.  So what's your option on him? And if you think Nightstar had a right to do it, why do you consider Mudclaw so different, to the point he's evil? 


Onto the other part, Mudclaw did actually want to fight Onewhisker on a 1 v 1, similar to Rusty and Longtail. However, Barkface prevented them from doing it. 


Here's a video by Pinkbunnygirl, where she reads out the scene directly from the book to prove it: 

I'll also like to drill in this points again: Mudclaw wasn't doing to this solely out of selfish desires. There were a good portion of Windclan warriors who wanted him to become leader. He fulfilling their wishes. Mudclaw wasn't the only one to fight in that battle. All of Windclan turned on each other. Onewhisker fraught as well in that battle. 

For all Windclan knew, Onewhisker could of been lying just to make himself Leader. 

Hawkfrost offered to help Mudclaw because he believed that Mudclaw was the true leader of WindClan, in return Mudclaw agreed that as leader he would leave RiverClan in peace.

However, Hawkfrost left out the rest because he was trying to cover his own tracks. Mudclaw told him to tell Bramblestar the truth, which was how Hawkfrost wanted to be WindClan deputy and take over RiverClan later. That was Hawkfrost's plans, he wanted that, and Mudclaw agreed to those negotiations, whether he would have actually gone through with it, we don't know. Tallstar wanted Onestar to lead WindClan and have an alliance with ThunderClan, leading it side by side with Firestar, something he agreed to because it was Tallstar's wish, but later did the extreme opposite. With Mudclaw we don't know, especially considering Hawkfrost revealed that he and Bramblestar are supposed to be the sole rulers of all four clans. Hawkfrost had planned to take WindClan and RiverClan while Bramblestar, ThunderClan and ShadowClan. One way or another that meant Hawkfrost would have to off the leaders, and that includes Mudclaw. While the first leader they went after canonly later on is Firestar, but Bramblestar ruined those plans.

I understand why Mudclaw didn't accept Onewhisker as leader—not only were Firestar and Brambleclaw ThunderClan cats, but Firestar was also Onewhisker's friend, so it makes sense why he'd be suspicious when only three cats, none of whom were Mudclaw or even Barkface, were present. Onewhisker even offered Mudclaw a chance to be his deputy, but he refused. He did however defend Onewhisker at one point, but that clearly didn't last long.

Was Mudclaw the rightful leader? Looking at it at a certain way, yes. It's likely Mudclaw would've just been like Blackstar or Leopardstar if we accept what was said in TUG as canon (as I know alot of people don't because of it's inconsistencies even though that's nothing new for the series), but since the leader's word is the warrior code, Onewhisker was the rightful leader. Tallstar named Onewhisker his successor right before he died, so he technically was deputy for, like, a second before Tallstar died, or more than that if you want to count the time between him being named Mudclaw's replacement and getting nine lives. However, he didn't say the right words. Onewhisker had also previously had two apprentices, so it wasn't like he didn't have any experience leading cats either, which was why that code was created in the first place.

But either way, did Mudclaw have to drag the other Clans into this? And why promise a RiverClan cat to be deputy of WindClan and take over the former later on anyway? It really doesn't help Mudclaw's case either. Hawkfrost clearly manipulated him, but even then, this never sat well with me regardless. It's no better than how Ashfur listened to him, if not worse. Mudclaw could've just challenged Onewhisker himself, or what might've been better is to have Tallstar get Barkface and Mudclaw to bear witness to his decision instead of ThunderClan cats. I'm just surprised more casualties weren't shown after the rebellion.

And Onestar wasn't a good leader, but this doesn't necessarily mean Mudclaw would've been better. He just probably would've been better by comparison, but we don't know for certain and probably never will (again, unless you take TUG as canon, but even then it just says that Mudclaw didn't want to rule through bloodshed), unless Kate says something about it or another guide is released or maybe someone from the Erin Hunter team writes an AU where Mudstar happened or something.

But I think we can all agree on one thing: Harestar is better than both of them.

Considering we've never had a statement from the Erins or 'alternate universe' from online oneshots usually written by Vicky, we don't know what Mudclaw would of been like as a leader. So can't really make a fair judgment.    

Mudclaw, unlike Onewhisker at the time, had nothing to prove. Mudclaw was said to be the most senior warrior at the time, is already an experienced deputy, is downright dedicated to his clan, and loyal. He even says to Tallstar at one point that WindClan's priorities must come first. And yes he's known to hold a grudge but his grudges make sense. He hated Brokenstar for driving his Clan out and murdering his clanmates, he hated ThunderClan for sheltering that very same cat, he hated Tigerstar as well and strove not to be like them in the long run. He had no ties with ThunerClan whatsoever, he would have easily been an independent leader, away from them, and give WindClan cats a strong name. If anything he'd be an alternative version of Leopardstar or Blackstar. Cats that make mistakes, but its the minor thing about their characters and they make up for it asap.

On the other hand, Onewhisker was cowardly. He was too buddy-buddy with ThunderClan cats, he needed to reevaluate where his loyalty lies. Unfortunately, it took him becoming a leader to realize that, and it was a bit too late at that point. The only reason Tallstar chose Onewhisker was not that he had leadership qualities, but because of his way-too close of a bond he had with Firestar(who is ironically the son of his past love interest) there was some really heavy bias in his choice and is overall foolish.

The leader's word is law is an abomination of a code considering this is how we got cats like Tigerstar and Brokenstar in power, and how so much crap follows through. No, just because Onestar got 9 lives doesn't mean anything, so did Tiger and Broken, and they've murdered plenty of cats unjustly in their greed to be powerful. If anything Onestar only got 9 lives by default, just because Mudclaw died, there are not many options after that. Tallstar also did not use the proper ceremony to make Onestar leader, ThunderCLan also withheld that information out of bias. There were no witnesses, not even the medicine cat was present.

Onestar led an attack on ThunderClan because he was trying to prove a point. He stole from them, not the first time either, hid away when TC wanted to confront him, then launched an attack on TC in the middle of the night. One of the most cowardly things a leader could do next to attacking other clans at a gathering. He not only spat on Firestar's friendship but also Tallstar's last wishes. Then has RiverClan try and help him chase out ThunderClan from their own territory, trying to do exactly what Brokenstar did with them before. People rag on Mudclaw for accepting offered help from other clans, but no one says a thing about how Onestar enlist RiverClan to try and get rid of ThunderClan? And up to this point, ThunderClan has done nothing to WindClan, except help them, this was an unprovoked, an unjustified attack, just so Onestar can seem "worthy" in the eyes of his cats.

The next time Onestar even meets Tallstar, he attacks him, a StarClan cat, and then pretty much confirms again he never wanted to be leader. Then why? Why accept it??? Why didn't he just keep his mouth shut, or step down when Mudclaw challenged him initially??? He was never suited to be leader. Tallstar even admits being too stubborn to change his mind even though he was wrong.

And then just when you think it can't get any worse, we find out that as of AVoS he had an illegitimate child with a kittypet. Seriously? He gets friendly with kittypets during his warrior-ship, fooling around with them, gets one pregnant, and when she wants him to take responsibility he refuses. That honestly makes him just as bad as Crowfeather, if not worse in my book. She ends up kitting alone, loses all but one kit, and then again begs him to at least take and raise their kit, but again he refuses. Not because he worried for his safety, but because he was too scared of how Tallstar would see him and the rest of his clan. He is a coward. Always was, always has been. Which is why I wasn't all too surprised when it was revealed he was Darktail's father.

The leader's word is law right? Kestrelflight and Harespring went against Onestar's word to save a clan that was going to die out due to Onestar's selfishness. Onestar was literally going to let ShadowClan suffer, let cats die, all because he wanted to cover up his mistakes, like a coward. He tried to make Rowanstar do his own dirty work, and was so scared to face Darktail he ran off during a battle and even refuse to help the other clans fight at one point. Onestar is honestly one of the reasons for Rowanstar's fall as a leader as well. Harestar broke the rules for the right reason, this is why Harestar is becoming so popular and well liked by fans and in the books. He did the right thing, he saved ShadowClan when they needed them when Onestar couldn't own up to his own actions. But at that point, the damage is already done.

Onestar died for his cowardice. Not for his heroics.

Mudclaw had no affiliation with kittypets. No close ties with ThunderClan. Nothing to prove because he already earned the respect of his clanmates. Mudclaw was ambitious to make WindClan amazing again and save it from the downward spiral it was going, but never got the chance because it was stolen from him by a more inexperienced irresponsible cowardly furball.

I pray to StarClan that Harestar continues doing what he's doing because the only reason I haven't lost respect for WindClan at the moment is because of him, and how badly ShadowClan has been as well by comparison. I don't like Tigerheart, and I don't think he deserves to be leader, but I hope he ends up being a good one in comparison to his father as well. Even though it should have been Tawnypelt.

Not to mention i also disagree with Leader's Word is Law, but that is also not my point. How I feel does not matter with a canon code. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Tallstar chose Onewhisker as his deputu and revoked Mudclaw. Now the deputy code comes in play for Onewhisker, because the leader chooses the deputy, and I see no reason why Tallstar can't change his deputy. :/

In this case? Absolutely. I usually choose between Drama and Righteousness on many things, and the Onestar Mudclaw thing is totally a drama thing for me. Both cats are clearly flawed and not "ideal heroic, peaceful and wise" leader stereotypes that tend to be the best leaders, but Onestar is more complex than Mudclaw, so I get drawn to his actions more.

This is a reason I want a Berrystar in Thunderclan. To break the chain of "heroic, calm and collected" Thunderclan leaders and provide good and unpredictable drama for the clan.

While I dislike Hollyleaf for it, I do agree! That gathering was intense!