#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 14, 2018 23:31:25 GMT -5
He deserved better, by both the Clans and the writing/editing staff.
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Post by Jaysnow on Apr 15, 2018 2:29:21 GMT -5
I didn't really like him after he separated two orphan kits in TAQ
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 15, 2018 4:03:56 GMT -5
^ Yeah, I didn't like him there either. Personally, I never liked Rowan, he was an inconsistent cat, I knew wasn't suited for deputy. I hated how he was chosen over Tawnypelt, and even Dawnpelt, way more interesting and capable cats. He would treat Tawny horribly for being half clan, and question her loyalty, but then later defend her suddenly just because they're mates now? In BrS I found how he treated her like a kit to be so degrading, he was so stubborn, it grated my nerves. Even Blackstar had enough common sense to help aid other clans or receive help time and now. I hated how he treated Squirrelflight that one time at the gathering, where it was announced he and Tawny had kits, Squirrel congratulated him and he wanted to be snide about how they're full-blooded ShadowClan cats, when ironically they weren't cause Tawny is originally from Thunder, smh. The Erins pretty much made him mates with Tawny because they felt bad for getting his gender wrong on several occasions, so used Tawny as a means of not forgetting anymore, UGH. The fact that he had the audacity to crawl back to ThunderClan for help after losing Littlecloud made my blood boil, especially after seperating two kits, just because he wanted some glory concerning the supposed prohecy it was so dumb! He doesn't even know how to lead properly, even before cats like Scorchfur got on his case, it's said that there were so many cats he didn't even know what to do with them. I hated how he turned away Tree for now good reason, I hated how he gives such young newly made warriors apprentices, I hated how he walked around with his snout up like some stuck up that thinks he's all that when he's not. I don't even like Blackstar and even I would rather have him back as a leader.
Rowan was a weak leader, and the only reason I don't hate Needle is because she called him out on that several times. Did she go about it the wrong way? Yeah. But I don't blame her and others for leaving, his clan chose a rogues over him and that's just pathetic. Also making your own son deputy, seriously? That's just bad taste, I hated when Misty did it with Reed, and I still hated it when Rowan did it. I personally don't like the idea of leaders making their kits deputies, especially so soon, there's an underlying of bias there.
I do acknowledge that Rowan's character could have been improved upon after Darktail left, but the thing is he was still unfit to be leader. The Erins however used him as a stepping stool to prop up Tigerheart which makes me even more annoyed. Because Tawnypelt rightfully should have been leader of ShadowClan at this point, the fact she continuously keeps getting passed over makes me want to chuck my book out the window. Tldr Rowan is just a bad character with no real backbone, and just overall unlikable in my book, he's a failure of a character, underwhelming as a leader, but I'd still would rather have him redeemed than gettinger Tigerstar 2.0, but both are horrid, and Tawnystar should have happened. The Erins just down right hate her, UGHHH.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 7:44:05 GMT -5
I feel that the Erins really ran him into the ground in favor of Tigerheartstar. What a world these days...
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 15, 2018 10:46:33 GMT -5
Rowanstar is a perfectly fine leader who is better and more honorable than nearly every Shadowclan leader before him and he deserved WAY better. His clanmates are complete idiots and NO leader could have controlled them, so bullcrap to the thought that he was "weak". Bullcrap. Sorry he's not a violent murderer, jesus.
Hate how he was trashed for Tigerstar 2...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 11:37:53 GMT -5
For me, it's hard to judge Rowanstar simply cause so much crap was going down. Onestar was having his tantrum and letting ShadowClan die of illness. ShadowClan wanted to attack WindClan to avenge their deaths, and Rowanstar didn't, thinking it wouldn't help their already bad situation. And in a way, he was right. Only Onestar wanted ShadowClan to suffer- the rest of WindClan were trying to help. But all ShadowClan saw was someone who didn't care enough about his clanmates to avenge their deaths, and he should have known that not doing anything in retaliation would have resulted in something bad.
Rowanstar was trying to be a more peaceful leader for ShadowClan at the worst time possible. He had good intentions but made bad decisions. And honestly, he was always doomed to fail. Even if he did everything his clan wanted him to do- attack WindClan, not go to the gathering, etc etc, the young rebels would have just gotten more and more confident and would have always been a ticking time bomb. Punish them too much and they'll rebel. Feed them what they want too much and they'll have more confidence to rebel. Darktail would have still been there no matter what, there to grasp ShadowClan the moment he was able to. It was never ever going to end well no matter what Rowanstar did.
And let's be real, had Tawnypelt been the leader instead I don't think she'd be much more successful. Love her to death, but while she may be awesome to us she was still pretty socially average to ShadowClan- maybe even low since she was literally the last pick for deputy after everyone else died, were exiled, or had returned to ShadowClan and weren't trustworthy enough. She seemed to support most of Rowanstar's decisions and never seemed to question him. ShadowClan was doomed no matter what.
But as a character, Rowanclaw never really stood out to me. Aggressive? Check. Racist? Check. Likes to eat frogs? Check. Just a stereotypical ShadowClan cat to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 11:55:55 GMT -5
The writing treated him, Tawnypelt, and Dovewing terribly. They definitely deserved better. I will not forgive them for ruining these characters just for the sake of Tigerheart bias.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 15, 2018 12:25:14 GMT -5
Ah ya know what, I just remembered how bad Onestar was in AVoS, haha. Rowanstar at least wasn't as bad as him, but the way he died, Rowan that is, was at least honorable. I think we can all agree that it's really the Erins fault, or their editors, with inconsistencies, and how badly they trashed him in favor of Tigerheart, that's the problem here. (I personally wanted to see Rowan at least be redeemed after Darktail's defeat, but we didn't get that....)
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Apr 15, 2018 16:04:16 GMT -5
I know I defend him against Scorchfur, but truth be told, I dislike him -- not fervently, but nonetheless dislike. Because he truly was an asshat of, like, a high degree. I'm thinking of scenes where his pride stopped Puddleshine from asking Leafpool for help when the sickness first started, how terribly he treated Violetshine as a kit (just thinking about that pisses me off), his treatment of Tawnypelt, and how he was clearly biased toward Tigerheart, who was a horrible warrior, much less potential deputy, but apparently that's okay because that's his son. The undertones to that give me a bad taste in my mouth. He was also extremely naive at the Gathering when the Clans wanted to attack the rogues -- he insisted his Clanmates just went down the wrong path, and it's like, okay, but these rogues are getting out of control. Not to mention how disrespectful he was toward the ThunderClan cats in their own damn home in the stone hollow, and how defensive he was when Mistystar would call him out as to why all this happened.
But, if it weren't for this Tigerheart storyline, I highly doubt he would've been written so horribly. I mean, he was still too prideful in BrS, but he wasn't this stupid like how he was in AVOS. I know it's far different being the head honcho than it is when you're deputy under the head honcho, but the way he was written was seriously awful. He couldn't do anything right, and I just don't get how that's plausible when he was deputy for so long. He had plenty of experience, including respect from the older cats. And to be fair to him and the mentors trying to control the young apprentices, the punishments that the Clans give the apprentices and young warriors aren't that terrible, so of course it doesn't have any hold on him once they realize they can literally just...not do it. We see from all the Clans -- especially ThunderClan -- that punishments such as gathering moss, cleaning ticks, staying behind from Gatherings, etc. don't mean crap in the long run. Those punishments are built on respect and self-realized shame/remorse, which it seems none of the younger cats have anymore, starting from PO3 and a little bit of TNP. How many times did we see Firestar dreading getting taken to Bluestar after he was caught doing something? The public shame of it, like being reverted back to an apprentice and everyone knowing why, was bad enough for him and Graystripe. A few times, he did get away lightly (coming back smelling like mice during FOS and kind of receiving Cinderpelt as an apprentice), but it was also acknowledged and he was surprised. Every time, however, he'd remember how Bluestar's fury was legendary, and he'd be nervous at her punishments. Many times when he was scolded, he felt horrible that he'd betrayed her trust and that she was disappointed in him. That was far worse than most punishments. Hell, even the Clan could punish him, like when he brought Cloudtail to the Clan. Nobody wanted to really talk to him except Sandstorm, Brindleface, Yellowfang, and Cinderpelt; it was noted that almost everyone was judging and/or ignoring him, and he felt lonely, which was one of the reasons why he visited Princess so often.
What Rowanstar went through with struggling to control his Clan could've happened to any Clan, and if you think about it, Firestar and Bramblestar can't keep their own cats under control, either. The narrative just treats it as okay, which is the big difference. Dovewing, Ivypool, Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and now Twigpaw sort of do whatever is convenient for them and there's no repercussions or punishments. The only punishments I recall any of them having was Jayfeather and Hollyleaf -- the former when he fell into the lake as a kit and Hollyleaf when she got back from RiverClan, but even that was cut short, because they were at war with WindClan, though maybe I'm missing something. If this was Onestar's storyline, it may've made more sense, since he's long since been unreasonable, prideful, and quick to frustrate if he isn't getting his way/feels he's in the right. We also saw that he could become paranoid very quickly (not to mention how he treated Kestrelflight and Harespring at several points/earlier scenes of snapping at Ashfoot sometimes is similar to Rowanstar with Tawnypelt, so that could've been switched), but the way Rowanstar was written seemed off to me. I do admire him for later bowing down at last and wanting to join ShadowClan with SkyClan. It's annoying that he was made into a reasonable cat in ROF whenever he was around when stuff happened, because that's how he should've been the whole time.
TLDR; all in all, he's a butthole, but he shouldn't have been as awful/useless as he was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 16:09:22 GMT -5
I stopped liking him after he separated Twigbranch and Violetshine.
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Post by deerspirit on Apr 16, 2018 7:29:48 GMT -5
I thought Rowanstar was a decent cat who was chosen to lead at the wrong time.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 16, 2018 11:21:27 GMT -5
The fact that ShadowClan is composed of nothing but cats who would willingly march in lockstep with Tigerclan is the problem. Rowanstar would have been utterly screwed no matter what due to having to deal with that kind of toxic culture. He shouldn’t have split apart the kits, but I’m fairly certain that if he hadn’t, ShadowClan would just hate him more. It’s no excuse, but it’s something to consider for motivation
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 16, 2018 11:49:10 GMT -5
The fact that ShadowClan is composed of nothing but cats who would willingly march in lockstep with Tigerclan is the problem. Rowanstar would have been utterly screwed no matter what due to having to deal with that kind of toxic culture. He shouldn’t have split apart the kits, but I’m fairly certain that if he hadn’t, ShadowClan would just hate him more. It’s no excuse, but it’s something to consider for motivation Exactly. This. Yes, a leader can be weak or strong when it comes to their people, but when the people cannot be controlled after countless efforts and clearly refuse to see any kind of reason, how good of a leader you are does not matter. The best leader in all the clans couldn't control such sheer idiocy and defiance that literally came out of nowhere just to trash Rowan's character. We all know these same rebellious cats will be 100 percent obedient to Tigerstar for no fathomable reason and that's bullcrap. Tigerstar isn't saving anyone. The characters are literally being picked and pulled to produce this pedestal for a cat nobody wanted as leader. The only way Rowanstar was ever going to control his clanmates was if he abused, murdered and starved everyone who stepped out of line. He literally tried everything else that I can think of that fit the kind of morality I've been waiting for for a Shadowclan leader. We get stuck with these literal murderers and violent leaders, Raggedstar has killed in cold blood, Brokenstar has killed in cold blood, Nightstar was leader for such a short time that I don't even really count him in this group, Tigerstar 1 is obvious, and Blackstar murdered Rosetail and Stonefur and clearly had no remorse afterwards. Blackstar only earns my respect because he did try to turn himself around and lead his clan well, which he did, but he also led cats that literally never rebelled against him. Hell, Shadowclan willingly turned away from Starclan and watched Blackstar give up his own leadership name because some loner strolled in and said some crap that everyone just believed?? At least Tawnypelt left, again, showing why she's literally the only remotely consistent character in Shadowclan. And Blackstar's made some seriously stupid and weak decisions but never got trashed like Rowanstar did. That's another thing that really gets me mad. How much crap Blackstar did that Shadowclan had 0 problems with. And if it's because these leaders were killers and are seen as strong for doing so rather than being respected for following the code and being true to the clan, then really these Shadowclan warriors don't deserve Rowanstar. They don't deserve stability and honor if they really consider that brutal and code-breaking leaders are "stronger" and more "respected". We finally get a Shadowclan leader that has NOT broken the code, that does NOT resort to mindless abuse and violence to his own clanmates when they step out of turn, a leader that has all 9 lices, a leader that is clearly putting his clan's safety and honor before himself countless times, a leader who cared about his clan that much to willingly be stripped of his 9 lives and ensure their stability by joining another freaking clan when his deputy dances off to bang a Thunderclan cat, a leader who DIES saving kits instead of CAUSING kits to die. We finally got a genuinely honorable and code-abiding leader, and lo and behold he gets blamed for everything, trashed on by Starclan cats, forced to find shelter in other clans at the cost of his pride, and who's daughter was forcibly drowned and never seen again, only to have the warriors who betrayed the clan welcomed back in and forgiven, tell him that the cat who drowned his own daughter was a better leader than he was. That's disgusting. That disgusted me to read, when that happened. The entire arc's trashing of Rowanstar and Shadowclan sickened me, and the Tigerstar bias is so big that it hurts.
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