Ivypool x Fernsong: a good couple?

i've already made it clear what i think about it.

I personally adore them!

it’s so forced, ivypool didn’t need a mate at all. they should have been just friends, and even if they became mates they shouldnt have had kits :/

Doesn't feel forced to me, sorry.

I love this pairing. Finally getting to see a healthy relationship for once is nice and both are great characters so I'm very satisfied.

Purely judging it as a relationship I like it because it's a healthy, drama-free relationship. They clearly love and support each other on top of it being a breath of fresh air from relationships like SquirrelxBramble, LeafxCrow and of course DovexTiger. But for me personally I just don't care for it? I do feel like in some ways it's forced and that they're pushing too hard for the whole breaking gender norms thing and whatnot. Also it seems that Fernsong's character revolves around Ivypool instead of having him stand on his own. So it's neutral for me in the end but not the worst relationship out there.

Honestly the "she should have stayed single" argument annoys me a bit because it implies that she can't be the tough warrior and have a mate at the same time.

you know how like mousefur was an awesome warrior and elder and she lived her whole life without a mate or kits and she was PERFECTLY FINE AND HAPPY? that should have been ivypool. while dovewing was being a little brat about her love life and making stupid decisions about it, ivypool was focusing on other things and improving herself. therefore, her being single and being perfectly fine with it makes way more sense and it feels natural. why do you think everyone else complains about ivyxfern being forced? because it is to us. 

I hate it. It's aggressively shoehorned in, and Fernsong has as much personality as a bowl of oatmeal. Ivypool didn't need a mate and kits. She showed no romantic interest in any tom back in OOTS. If the Erins wanted Fernsong to have a mate so badly, they could've just paired him up with Blossomfall.

Imo Ivypool had the right thinking going for her, as an apprentice she was focusing on her training as a warrior, even if her and her sister had some disputes, and also the added plot verse of the Dark Forest. For the most part Ivypool was working to improve herself as a cat, thinking she was doing it for the good of the clan. But she wasn't as happy go lucky as people claimed she was, she had an inferiority complex, she'd constantly be compared to her sister, like her shadow, and her and Dove would bicker, she was envious of her "perfect" sister, and was risking her life everyone being in the DF even when she didn't want to, and manipulated by cats way older than her. How is any of that happy go lucky? The only cat she tried to be close with was the one cat who would be running off with some tom from another clan. While their parents were barely involved at all, we rarely saw them around when Ivy and Dove were kits, and like twice when they're warriors cause of Whitewing worrying over Ivy and Birchfall being in the DF for some weird reason, etc.

When you're young, you should be focusing on your training this is why apprentices can't have mates. Ivypool was doing that, Dovewing wasn't, which is why we constantly saw Dove's on and off love drama, between her, Bumble and Tiger. Ivypool didn't have time for any of that, because she was focused on her duties as she should be, not flaunting with a forbidden mate, or leading on another tom in her clan. I hate that people measure Ivypool being with a mate against Dovewing's, just because her romantic arc was downright horrid and even bled into the AVoS plot, and almost ruining it.

Ivypool did what she had to do, she matured before her sister. So why is it so bad that she has a mate and kits? She finished her training, she became a warrior, she helped in the final battle, she still did her warrior duties, and she happened to become interested in Fernsong. They didn't immediately hop into a relationship either, it's shown they have chemistry, and they're perfectly happy together. The Erins at least had the decency to think this around Ivypool's character, so she doesn't become the "stereotypical queen" you guys hate so much. But even then you all jump on Fernsong and accuse him of being a trophy wife like you can't please everyone. I feel like people are just nitpicking at this point. And this whole argument of gender norms and whatnot, when the Erins never mentioned any of that, is all speculation. Is it really so bad that Fernsong wants to spend more time with his kits after they're weaned, while helping out Ivypool, ya know his mate? When did it suddenly become horrible that a father takes interest in his kits, and cares about his mate's well being? Why is it so bad that Fernsong is Ivypool's love interest, I never hear people complain about Dustpelt suddenly jumping on Ferncloud as soon as she became a warrior, from what I've seen the majority support that pairing.

Like the Erins give us a perfectly healthy relationship, and people still aren't happy. Accusations of gender norms, people claiming Ivy can't be independent even if she has a mate, apparently you can't be a happy individual when you have a mate and kits, nope nope. She still has her personality, but she's not allowed to be soft around her own family and kits?? Wow. Ivypool is NOT Dovewing. She's her own character. She's NOT Mousefur either, or any other she-cat that doens't want a mate. If Ivypool wants a mate that's her decision, if they make her happy, so what. If people actually understood Ivypool's character like they claim they'd know she hasn't changed a bit. Whether she has a family and mate now didn't change her as a character.

Imo I feel like people are just mad she didn't stay single, or ended up with a she-cat  so people are trying to claw for excuses at the bottom of a barrel at this point. Just say it's not your cup of tea and move on.*rolls eyes*

❅Maplefrost❅, full disclosure: I'm feeling really out of whack today, so this is probably gonna sound dumb to you guys, but I legit got emotional reading that lol because that's exactly why I love FernIvy. You managed to put it into words far better than I could have, but especially the parts about her being her own character. Comparing her to others is, funny enough, exactly why she was so upset at the start: because she was being compared to her sister. She wants to be her own cat, and she achieved that, and now she has a family with the tom she loves.

Would I have been happy if she wasn't interested in that? Of course! As someone who's ace, stuff like that is great, and even if it's not explicitly stated, the undertones of characters who could be ace (Mousefur, Longtail, and Hollyleaf) is wonderful. What we got, however, makes me happy, too. She's even retaining her personality, like some people were worried she wouldn't...I don't see what's wrong with that.

I have honestly have yet to find a good reason, that at least debatable, as to why people think FernIvy is bad except for their own personal qualms toward the pairing because they're mad that Ivy isn't with another she-cat, or isn't single because they fear her being a queen ruins her character. It's not a forbidden relationship, they're not mates with their sibling, they're not abusive with one another, they're not cheating with others, they're not neglecting their kits, they're not bad. They're in a perfectly healthy relationship right now. If something did happen to happen down that road, sure I can see possible points popping up, but for now? In my opinion, they're fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're on a forum, people debate here if you don't want to just say so. But I'm free to have an opinion here, just like you? Like what's your problem? I even said, if it doens't concern or applies to you then why are you worrying about it. You also mentioned points as to why people would dislike the pairing. That's perfectly fine, so I gave my own thoughts on them, I'm not quoting it to provoke you, or instigate anything, I'm going to each point. And it's not even word for word like you're claiming. You mentioned more reasons as why people dislike the pairing, I talked about them, it's not that hard. Cause that's what people do on forums, discuss things, these are discussion boards. You're literally trying to vilify me just because you think I have some sort of vendetta against you when you're probably one of my least concerns in the world right now. I just wanted to go on the forums and talk about fictional cats, and if you can't handle someone talking about something you said on here, then I don't know what else to tell you. How about instead of making assumptions about my intentions actually ask me first? I had no intention of being passive aggressive, and if you took it that way that's pretty much on you, I was replying to you, I wasn't beating around the bush in anyways. And I didn't even know you were mentioning me from the reply before until you actually admitted it by saying "Wow. It's great to see the people I mentioned--" like seriously the world doesn't revolve around you. If you weren't referring to me, then my mistake, but my comment afterward wasn't trying to be passive aggressive in any way, I'm literally replying to your points, cause again, this is a discussions board, the normal thing to do. If you don't like it, just say so, but that doesn't mean I won't continue on with my own opinion. It's literally not that deep. If you don't want to see my posts, replies, etc, there is a block button.

As a relationship alone, I think it's fine. It's happy and healthy, and the two clearly love each other.

But beyond that? Well, that's where I have my problems. Ivypool never showed any interest in wanting a mate and kits, but there was never any indication that she didn't want any of these things, either. What I'm saying here is that it could've gone either way, but they've gone with the direction of Ivypool already be interested in Fernsong by TAS.

The problem with this however is that there's no smooth transition, and that's why it seemingly comes out of nowhere. And yes, Ivypool is a background character now, but we've seen background characters in this series get development before, and it's especially jarring when Ivypool is a former main character herself. Heck, maybe Ivypool could've been Fernsong's mentor instead, and that could've probably given us a better understanding of their relationship by that alone.

As for Fernsong himself, he doesn't have much of a personality to him other than loving Ivypool and just being a nice cat in general. And that gets boring. It's not even with just him; I have this problem with several nice cats in the series, from Gray Wing to even Thrushpelt. It's easy to see why Ivypool likes him, but I'd just prefer it if we got to see Fernsong be more than just a male Ferncloud.

With the relation thing, I can understand this as well, considering the Prophecy of the Three is pretty blatant about Lionblaze's relation to Dovewing. Now, I wouldn't mind this at all if it weren't for the fact that pairings like Foxleap x Rosepetal were scrapped for this very reason. It has less to do with how closely FernxIvy is related and more the fact that two cats who are said to be related via an important prophecy are being paired up at all.

And when it comes to the gender norms argument, I know the Erins didn't confirm it, but what other reason would there be to have Fernsong be in the nursery after the kits are weaned? And we've seen toms care for their kits before, so I'm not even sure if this further supports the gender norms argument or breaks it. But no matter how you look at it, I myself still don't find it to be necessary. Again, at least give Fernsong some personality than just being a male Ferncloud.

And I doubt Ivypool being in the nursery will change her and we've seen strong mothers in this series before, but this series doesn't exactly have the best track record of keeping she-cats consistent after they become mothers, so I can see why fans would be worried about this as well.

Plus, not every cat needs a mate and kits. Overall, I'm pretty neutral on this ship.

Honestly, I totally agree. I font find the problems people are seeing at all in my opinion. It doesn't seem forced. :/ Maybe it's just me, but they're a great couple. They care for each other so much and they help each other grow as characters. It doesn't bring a negative impact to either of their characters. It's a happy positive drama free ship. Ivypool doesn't lose her personality and that's what I love about it. I kind of find it weird that some people might think once your a mother you lose all your personality traits and what not. I really do love this ship with all my heart.