Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 19:54:08 GMT -5
This is going off of my previous post, I briefly touched upon the topic of Tadpole living but didn't go into much detail, due it being it's very own topic. So might as well be it's own post. For those who don't know, Tadpole is Hawkfrost's and Mothwing's brother, who ended up drowning as a kit in the Sasha manga, he never appears in the main arcs, not even mentioned.
In the manga, he was the strongest in his litter and constantly encouraging others, having the most upbeat attitude out of his family. Here's a quote from him, "Climb! Climb! You can do it! Hawk, get up onto the sill! Moth, keep going! You can make it, I know you can!". Though it's noteworthy, he's too young to display any truly unique personality traits, just your generic kit character. So there's still room for his personality to swift and change.
So this post in dedicated to asking the question, 'What would happen if Tadpole had lived?'. How would he react to his father trying to contact him in dreams? What would his relationship be like with Brambleclaw/Tawnypelt? And how would he affect Hawkfrost's character? What we're not entirely sure of what Hawkfrost's motives to joining his father, though it's likely it has something to do with Tadpole's death and Sasha abandoning them. Considering Hawkfrost would reply on Tadpole as the strongest of the litter, after his death, Hawkfrost swore he would fill the role his brother left behind.
But with Tadpole alive, Hawkfrost may not have such a strong desire to be the most powerful. Though he would still have Sasha leaving him as a motivation to become a villain, wanting at least one parent to be proud of him. However, it possible a living Tadpole could still make way for his brother's downfall but in a different way. For example, Hawkfrost becomes jealous Tadpole and that jealousy leads him to Tigerstar. Or maybe Tadpole and Hawkfrost start to argue over something, like protecting Mothwing, Tigerstar, Sasha, Riverclan etc. this creates a rift/distance between the littermates, which is why Hawkfrost seeks out his half-siblings.
Or, we could make Tadpole turn evil like Hawkfrost. Maybe: Since Tadpole is naturally larger/stronger, Tigerstar favors him over Hawkforst, which leads him to putting extra effect into manipulating him, maybe he saw Brambleclaw killing Hawkfrost, so goes to average him etc.
As you can see there are so many options, so I'd love to hear your own ideas/version of Tadpole.
My version:
(In my previous post, was about how Leopardstar should of been the mother of Tigerstar's 2nd litter, so I'll be continuing with that. The poll from that, people voted for Tadpole to be renamed 'Pantherkit', so that's how I'll be referring to him from now on in this post. Also I really needs some ideas on what his warrior name would be.)
Considering 3/4 of Tigerstar's kits were able to resist his manipulation (Tadpole never meet his father in the canon), so I think it would interesting to see another kit dragged into the Dark forest with him, but for more complex reasons then Hawkfrost. I'd go for more of the ironic angel, Panter--'s effects to go against Tigerstar/Hawkfrost, being the very thing that lands him by their side in the Dark Forest. To continue the 'Tigerstar's kits being shattered' tread, I would have Panter-- leave Riverclan and join Windclan.
Panter-- would be like the 'middle child', not age wise, but mortal wise. There is a clear distinction Brambleclaw, Tawnypelt and Mothwing are Hawkfrost, a clear good and bad side. But with Panter--, I would blur that line, by making him mortally grey. He equally values both kin and clanmates, so tries to stay as natural as possible. Having a strong sense of duty to each, but when pushed, he's willing to sacrifice others, including himself, if he deems it necessary to protect those he loves.
Story:
While growing up in Riverclan, Panterkit/paw kept like a nobody, only seen for his parents and not himself. This lead to him always having a distance relationship with Leopardstar and refusing Tigerstar's offer for training without hesitation, claiming he wanted nothing to do with his father. Hearing the stories of his father while growing up, Panterpaw always felt great sympathy for Windclan as his father's greatest victims, feeling like it was his duty to make up for his father's evil actions. And when on the forest was being destroyed, that desire could finally meet. When Riverclan had refused to give the starving Windclan aid, Panterpaw finally had enough, sneaking prey across the border. When caught, he was got into a world of trouble, but he didn't care, it was worth it, feeling like he'd done a great service.
After discovering he had half-siblings, he was relatively curious and wanted to get to know them, but he was satisfied with his littermates, so wasn't overly fussed about it at first. Simply being polite and occianally greeting them at gatherings, but not much then that. But when Hawkforst started to favor Brambleclaw, Panter-- started to drift apart from him, instead of hanging around his sisters, Mothwing and Tawnypelt. Still not aware yet that his brothers' have acceptance of their father's offer for training.
During the journey, many Windclan warriors displayed their gratitude towards him. So he started to spend time with the Windclan cats, even more then his own clanmates, finally feeling like his own person. Eventually, he kept more connected with Windclan then his own birth Clan, sad that he was forced to become their enemy again after setting at the Lake. Riverclan cat begin to get suspicious, spreading rumors about him, making him feel even more isolated. This leads him to try and reconnect with Hawkfrost, which is where he reveals to him, that he's training in the Dark Forest. Immediately, the brothers began to argue, Panter-- disgusting Hawkfrost after he claims he wants to undo their father's work.
Worried, he goes to Mothwing and asks her if she is visited too. Though she writes the whole thing off, claiming it's impossible. Confident that Mothwing's disbelief in Starclan will keep her safe from Tigerstar, Panter-- finally feels more pushed away from Riverclan then ever, now his own littermate against him. When Tawnypelt reveals her own story about leaving Thunderclan to join Shadowclan, Panter-- finally decides to join Windclan. Mothwing is understanding, but Hawkfrost feels betrayed, but reluctantly promises to protect his sister while Panter-- was away.
In fact, it was also partly an act of defiance against Tigerstar, he purposefully joined Windclan, knowing they were largest victims of his father. It took some nagging but with his previous good deeds for the Clan, Tallstar allowed him to join. As expected, many Windclan warriors didn't trust him, especially as Tigerstar's son. But due to him mostly favoring Leopardstar's looks, many eventually able to accept him for himself, not contrasting reminding them of Tigerstar like Hawkfrost did. His lean build allowed to him to adapt to Windclan life quite quickly, running surprisingly not too different to swimming.
Though he left to get away from his parents' shadows, he felt guilty for leaving his siblings, so tried to keep close contact with Mothwing and Hawkfrost, constantly talking to them at gatherings. Suspiciously, Hawkfrost seemed to have forgiven Panter-- rather quickly, acting friendly with him again. Yet this turned out to be a trick, Tigerstar using Hawkfrost to try and get to
Panter-- again, seeing him joining Windclan as an opportunity to take over it. When Tigerstar visited Panter-- a second time, he still refused, him disliking of his father sparking to hatred, blaming him for Hawkfrost's corruption. So desperately tries to reconnect to Hawkfrost one last time, so save him. He begins to value Kin and Clan equally, commonly trespassing on Riverclan territory to speak to Mothwing and Hawkfrost. His loyalty to his Clan being called into question once again.
Taking advantage of this, Hawkfrost/Tigerstar set up the Windclan civil war, to test Panter--, knowing he can't keep this balancing act forever. He tries at first, but eventually, he's forced to pick a side. Which naturally was Onestar's, not because he thought he should of been leader, honestly he couldn't care less, but because of it the opposing side to Tigerstar's/Hawkfrost's. To push him to his limits, when Panter-- and a fellow Onestar follower finds Hawkfrost trespassing on Windclan territory, he provokes the Windclan warrior into killing him. Now Panter--'s hand is forced, he must choose, kin or Clan. And he chooses kin, killing his clanmate to save his brother in a split second decision.
Hawkfrost congrats Panter--, claiming he's proven his loyalty to him and their father. Panter--'s vague hope of saving his brother shatters as he stumbles away from his victim. He claims Hawkfrost will pay for this, before rushing away. In a desperate attempt to prove his loyalty to Onestar's side, he fights Mudclaw's followers more ruthlessly than anyone, killing serval of them, including Mudclaw himself. After the civil war ends and the dust settles, his clanmates are finally able to relieve he killed more clanmates then anyone else, so is exiled. Panter-- is disgusted with himself as he joined Windclan to help them from his father's raff, but ended up doing his father's work for him.
Feeling like Hawkfrost and by extension, Brambleclaw were lost causes, wanting to protect his last siblings from corruption as well. So Panter-- made it his mission to wipe out Tigerstar's legacy out for good. So he pretended to be on Hawkfrost's side, helping to lure Firestar into the foxtrap. But when the three brothers are standing over Firestar, Panter-- suddenly betrays Hawkfrost, grabbing the stake of the foxtrap and stabbing him in the chest. Panter-- then turns to Brambleclaw, claiming he needs to die as well, before plucking the stake from Hawkfrost's body and lunging at the brown tom. But Brambleclaw manages to swipe it from Panter--'s grasp, forced to use it on him instead. Panter-- stumbles back, collapsing next to Hawkfrost's body, their blood mixing in the water.
When he sent to the Dark Forest, Panter-- become much more cold and emotionless, bitter that all his efforts had gone to waste. Him, Hawkfrost and Tigerstar attempted to keep away from each other for as long as possible. But after many seasons, their feelings of betrayal eventually soften. Soon Panter-- kept pressured into joining them when other Dark Forest cats started to question why Tigerstar's son wasn't joining them. Despite how he tries to hate his father and brother, he can't. They're the only family he had left, knowing the rest of his kin would be going to Starclan, isolated from them forever. Though now they act uncontactable around each other, only together out necessity. Specially him and Hawkfrost. Their relationship is now more business-like then family.
Compared to the Dark Forest residents, he's much more humble, not too fussed about getting revenge on anyone, only blaming himself for ending up in the Dark Forest . He wanders around with a stern expression, never taking pleasure/pride when he has to. Rarely does he show emotions, much calmer and calculating. For example, when the other Dark Forest cats are yowling to show their approval to someone's speech, Panter-- will remain silent, simply nodding.
He only talks when he needs to, usually liking to pretend he's somewhere else. He hates being there but never let anyone know it, constantly reassuring his loyalty. Some of the Dark Forest cat don't trust him, the smarter sensing his hidden remorse. Though due to being Tigerstar's son, they don't dare to say anything against him.
He much more patient with the trainees, but that doesn't mean he's soft with them, being hard on them when necessary, so they won't considered weak and killed, trying to protect them. During the Great Battle, he didn't bother fighting, instantly going into hiding to avoid needing to fight anyone. When he came across the traitorous trainees, he didn't bother attacking them, only wishing them luck, before letting them go. Not blaming them for betraying them, even happy that they didn't make the same mistakes he did. When Tigerstar and Hawkfrost are killed, he's deeply saddened, now being alone but ultimately slightly relieved, his mission was finally complete, Tigerstar's legacy was gone.
Design:
To make him fit more with his mother, he'll have his mother's spots but in black form and will have her build: Tall, lean, long legs and sleek fur. Built for speed, rather than strength like his bulker siblings, Mothwing and Hawkfrost. As eye colour, since both parents had amber eyes, he will also have amber eyes, leading more to the pale side, looking almost yellow. Modeled after a Black 'Black Smoke Savannah cat' like this:
In the manga, he was the strongest in his litter and constantly encouraging others, having the most upbeat attitude out of his family. Here's a quote from him, "Climb! Climb! You can do it! Hawk, get up onto the sill! Moth, keep going! You can make it, I know you can!". Though it's noteworthy, he's too young to display any truly unique personality traits, just your generic kit character. So there's still room for his personality to swift and change.
So this post in dedicated to asking the question, 'What would happen if Tadpole had lived?'. How would he react to his father trying to contact him in dreams? What would his relationship be like with Brambleclaw/Tawnypelt? And how would he affect Hawkfrost's character? What we're not entirely sure of what Hawkfrost's motives to joining his father, though it's likely it has something to do with Tadpole's death and Sasha abandoning them. Considering Hawkfrost would reply on Tadpole as the strongest of the litter, after his death, Hawkfrost swore he would fill the role his brother left behind.
But with Tadpole alive, Hawkfrost may not have such a strong desire to be the most powerful. Though he would still have Sasha leaving him as a motivation to become a villain, wanting at least one parent to be proud of him. However, it possible a living Tadpole could still make way for his brother's downfall but in a different way. For example, Hawkfrost becomes jealous Tadpole and that jealousy leads him to Tigerstar. Or maybe Tadpole and Hawkfrost start to argue over something, like protecting Mothwing, Tigerstar, Sasha, Riverclan etc. this creates a rift/distance between the littermates, which is why Hawkfrost seeks out his half-siblings.
Or, we could make Tadpole turn evil like Hawkfrost. Maybe: Since Tadpole is naturally larger/stronger, Tigerstar favors him over Hawkforst, which leads him to putting extra effect into manipulating him, maybe he saw Brambleclaw killing Hawkfrost, so goes to average him etc.
As you can see there are so many options, so I'd love to hear your own ideas/version of Tadpole.
My version:
(In my previous post, was about how Leopardstar should of been the mother of Tigerstar's 2nd litter, so I'll be continuing with that. The poll from that, people voted for Tadpole to be renamed 'Pantherkit', so that's how I'll be referring to him from now on in this post. Also I really needs some ideas on what his warrior name would be.)
Considering 3/4 of Tigerstar's kits were able to resist his manipulation (Tadpole never meet his father in the canon), so I think it would interesting to see another kit dragged into the Dark forest with him, but for more complex reasons then Hawkfrost. I'd go for more of the ironic angel, Panter--'s effects to go against Tigerstar/Hawkfrost, being the very thing that lands him by their side in the Dark Forest. To continue the 'Tigerstar's kits being shattered' tread, I would have Panter-- leave Riverclan and join Windclan.
Panter-- would be like the 'middle child', not age wise, but mortal wise. There is a clear distinction Brambleclaw, Tawnypelt and Mothwing are Hawkfrost, a clear good and bad side. But with Panter--, I would blur that line, by making him mortally grey. He equally values both kin and clanmates, so tries to stay as natural as possible. Having a strong sense of duty to each, but when pushed, he's willing to sacrifice others, including himself, if he deems it necessary to protect those he loves.
Story:
While growing up in Riverclan, Panterkit/paw kept like a nobody, only seen for his parents and not himself. This lead to him always having a distance relationship with Leopardstar and refusing Tigerstar's offer for training without hesitation, claiming he wanted nothing to do with his father. Hearing the stories of his father while growing up, Panterpaw always felt great sympathy for Windclan as his father's greatest victims, feeling like it was his duty to make up for his father's evil actions. And when on the forest was being destroyed, that desire could finally meet. When Riverclan had refused to give the starving Windclan aid, Panterpaw finally had enough, sneaking prey across the border. When caught, he was got into a world of trouble, but he didn't care, it was worth it, feeling like he'd done a great service.
After discovering he had half-siblings, he was relatively curious and wanted to get to know them, but he was satisfied with his littermates, so wasn't overly fussed about it at first. Simply being polite and occianally greeting them at gatherings, but not much then that. But when Hawkforst started to favor Brambleclaw, Panter-- started to drift apart from him, instead of hanging around his sisters, Mothwing and Tawnypelt. Still not aware yet that his brothers' have acceptance of their father's offer for training.
During the journey, many Windclan warriors displayed their gratitude towards him. So he started to spend time with the Windclan cats, even more then his own clanmates, finally feeling like his own person. Eventually, he kept more connected with Windclan then his own birth Clan, sad that he was forced to become their enemy again after setting at the Lake. Riverclan cat begin to get suspicious, spreading rumors about him, making him feel even more isolated. This leads him to try and reconnect with Hawkfrost, which is where he reveals to him, that he's training in the Dark Forest. Immediately, the brothers began to argue, Panter-- disgusting Hawkfrost after he claims he wants to undo their father's work.
Worried, he goes to Mothwing and asks her if she is visited too. Though she writes the whole thing off, claiming it's impossible. Confident that Mothwing's disbelief in Starclan will keep her safe from Tigerstar, Panter-- finally feels more pushed away from Riverclan then ever, now his own littermate against him. When Tawnypelt reveals her own story about leaving Thunderclan to join Shadowclan, Panter-- finally decides to join Windclan. Mothwing is understanding, but Hawkfrost feels betrayed, but reluctantly promises to protect his sister while Panter-- was away.
In fact, it was also partly an act of defiance against Tigerstar, he purposefully joined Windclan, knowing they were largest victims of his father. It took some nagging but with his previous good deeds for the Clan, Tallstar allowed him to join. As expected, many Windclan warriors didn't trust him, especially as Tigerstar's son. But due to him mostly favoring Leopardstar's looks, many eventually able to accept him for himself, not contrasting reminding them of Tigerstar like Hawkfrost did. His lean build allowed to him to adapt to Windclan life quite quickly, running surprisingly not too different to swimming.
Though he left to get away from his parents' shadows, he felt guilty for leaving his siblings, so tried to keep close contact with Mothwing and Hawkfrost, constantly talking to them at gatherings. Suspiciously, Hawkfrost seemed to have forgiven Panter-- rather quickly, acting friendly with him again. Yet this turned out to be a trick, Tigerstar using Hawkfrost to try and get to
Panter-- again, seeing him joining Windclan as an opportunity to take over it. When Tigerstar visited Panter-- a second time, he still refused, him disliking of his father sparking to hatred, blaming him for Hawkfrost's corruption. So desperately tries to reconnect to Hawkfrost one last time, so save him. He begins to value Kin and Clan equally, commonly trespassing on Riverclan territory to speak to Mothwing and Hawkfrost. His loyalty to his Clan being called into question once again.
Taking advantage of this, Hawkfrost/Tigerstar set up the Windclan civil war, to test Panter--, knowing he can't keep this balancing act forever. He tries at first, but eventually, he's forced to pick a side. Which naturally was Onestar's, not because he thought he should of been leader, honestly he couldn't care less, but because of it the opposing side to Tigerstar's/Hawkfrost's. To push him to his limits, when Panter-- and a fellow Onestar follower finds Hawkfrost trespassing on Windclan territory, he provokes the Windclan warrior into killing him. Now Panter--'s hand is forced, he must choose, kin or Clan. And he chooses kin, killing his clanmate to save his brother in a split second decision.
Hawkfrost congrats Panter--, claiming he's proven his loyalty to him and their father. Panter--'s vague hope of saving his brother shatters as he stumbles away from his victim. He claims Hawkfrost will pay for this, before rushing away. In a desperate attempt to prove his loyalty to Onestar's side, he fights Mudclaw's followers more ruthlessly than anyone, killing serval of them, including Mudclaw himself. After the civil war ends and the dust settles, his clanmates are finally able to relieve he killed more clanmates then anyone else, so is exiled. Panter-- is disgusted with himself as he joined Windclan to help them from his father's raff, but ended up doing his father's work for him.
Feeling like Hawkfrost and by extension, Brambleclaw were lost causes, wanting to protect his last siblings from corruption as well. So Panter-- made it his mission to wipe out Tigerstar's legacy out for good. So he pretended to be on Hawkfrost's side, helping to lure Firestar into the foxtrap. But when the three brothers are standing over Firestar, Panter-- suddenly betrays Hawkfrost, grabbing the stake of the foxtrap and stabbing him in the chest. Panter-- then turns to Brambleclaw, claiming he needs to die as well, before plucking the stake from Hawkfrost's body and lunging at the brown tom. But Brambleclaw manages to swipe it from Panter--'s grasp, forced to use it on him instead. Panter-- stumbles back, collapsing next to Hawkfrost's body, their blood mixing in the water.
When he sent to the Dark Forest, Panter-- become much more cold and emotionless, bitter that all his efforts had gone to waste. Him, Hawkfrost and Tigerstar attempted to keep away from each other for as long as possible. But after many seasons, their feelings of betrayal eventually soften. Soon Panter-- kept pressured into joining them when other Dark Forest cats started to question why Tigerstar's son wasn't joining them. Despite how he tries to hate his father and brother, he can't. They're the only family he had left, knowing the rest of his kin would be going to Starclan, isolated from them forever. Though now they act uncontactable around each other, only together out necessity. Specially him and Hawkfrost. Their relationship is now more business-like then family.
Compared to the Dark Forest residents, he's much more humble, not too fussed about getting revenge on anyone, only blaming himself for ending up in the Dark Forest . He wanders around with a stern expression, never taking pleasure/pride when he has to. Rarely does he show emotions, much calmer and calculating. For example, when the other Dark Forest cats are yowling to show their approval to someone's speech, Panter-- will remain silent, simply nodding.
He only talks when he needs to, usually liking to pretend he's somewhere else. He hates being there but never let anyone know it, constantly reassuring his loyalty. Some of the Dark Forest cat don't trust him, the smarter sensing his hidden remorse. Though due to being Tigerstar's son, they don't dare to say anything against him.
He much more patient with the trainees, but that doesn't mean he's soft with them, being hard on them when necessary, so they won't considered weak and killed, trying to protect them. During the Great Battle, he didn't bother fighting, instantly going into hiding to avoid needing to fight anyone. When he came across the traitorous trainees, he didn't bother attacking them, only wishing them luck, before letting them go. Not blaming them for betraying them, even happy that they didn't make the same mistakes he did. When Tigerstar and Hawkfrost are killed, he's deeply saddened, now being alone but ultimately slightly relieved, his mission was finally complete, Tigerstar's legacy was gone.
Design:
To make him fit more with his mother, he'll have his mother's spots but in black form and will have her build: Tall, lean, long legs and sleek fur. Built for speed, rather than strength like his bulker siblings, Mothwing and Hawkfrost. As eye colour, since both parents had amber eyes, he will also have amber eyes, leading more to the pale side, looking almost yellow. Modeled after a Black 'Black Smoke Savannah cat' like this: