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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 13:22:35 GMT -5
So I think we're all familiar with Mapleshade and her victims' debate by now: Did they deserve it, who's reasonable for the death of the kits (*Ahem* Oakstar and Nature *Adem*) and which afterlife should they all be in. A lot of people having rather strong options on it. Since some people will say Appledusk, Ravenwing etc should go to the Dark Forest, without technically killing anyone. So I'm slightly surprised people don't go after the one who actually killed, Perchpaw. Why is no one going him for being the one who murdered Mapleshade?
I know it sounds like a silly question, since Mapleshade had just tried to kill a Pregnant Queen and his mentor, so it was only self-defense. But there are some pretty strong views in the Fandom, so much, I've even seen some people say Squirrelflight should go to the Dark Forest. So why is Perchpaw spared the wrath of the fans?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 13:36:21 GMT -5
The only thing I didn't like about Perchpaw was how Mapleshade was killed off so easily like she was prey. She was described as this tough, scary she-cat, only to be killed off by a younger cat who wasn't afraid of her.
I mean, one can argue that Mapleshade was already distracted from killing Appledusk, but I honestly thing the whole situation in the book was just handled poorly. Imo, Mapleshade should've had support, then I might've at least been able to tolerate the book. The fact that absolutely NO ONE cared about Mapleshade is what bothered me. Darkstar didn't even let her grieve over her kits, not even for one night.
It frustrates me how some fans say she was "blinded by rage" and try to defend her from killing Reedshine, a pregnant queen. It also frustrates me how fans feel bad for her and try to defend her just cause she had a bad past. But what people don't realize is that, a BAD PAST EXCUSES NOTHING! Being "blinded by rage" excuses nothing. Reedshine was a pregnant queen, period. She was just as much of a victim as Mapleshade when Appledusk cheated on her. She was a disastrous of a character, I'll give fans that much, but I can't believe I see all these people defending Mapleshade!
I dislike how the book made her look like the victim. Mapleshade blamed everyone for her problems, when she alone broke the code, lying to her clan, using a highly respected warrior to save her own hide. People don't realize that she's hurt other cats too, especially Frecklewish, whose depression became worse after the truth came out.
Well, that's my two cents anyways, about this whole thing. I just wish MV was handled better.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 6, 2018 15:48:08 GMT -5
Mapleshade is sympathized with because if she'd just quietly accepted the punishment, she legitimately would have been the only victim. Appledusk doesn't give a single care about the whole thing, Reedshine seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly, Ravenwing would be unaffected, and the two leaders obviously didn't care. The only one that seems to have been affected maybe is Frecklewish but Frecklewish was also an aggressive tool whose first reaction to seeing a now kitless Mapleshade insult her was to attack her.
She's a victim because when basically every other cat in the series breaks the code, the punishment is a light slap on the wrist. None of what she did deserved the crap that happened to her. It doesn't justify her kills but given how the other characters are utter jerks who screwed her over, there's also an element of dark revenge fantasy in there. Anyway, Perchpaw gets spared fandom wrath because, unlike every other cat, he did not personally screw over Mapleshade. His kill was purely defensive.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 6, 2018 17:52:33 GMT -5
Mapleshade is sympathized with because if she'd just quietly accepted the punishment, she legitimately would have been the only victim. Appledusk doesn't give a single care about the whole thing, Reedshine seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly, Ravenwing would be unaffected, and the two leaders obviously didn't care. The only one that seems to have been affected maybe is Frecklewish but Frecklewish was also an aggressive tool whose first reaction to seeing a now kitless Mapleshade insult her was to attack her. She's a victim because when basically every other cat in the series breaks the code, the punishment is a light slap on the wrist. None of what she did deserved the crap that happened to her. It doesn't justify her kills but given how the other characters are utter jerks who screwed her over, there's also an element of dark revenge fantasy in there. Anyway, Perchpaw gets spared fandom wrath because, unlike every other cat, he did not personally screw over Mapleshade. His kill was purely defensive. The first thing that came to mind was the Count of Monte Cristo, haha.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 6, 2018 20:48:15 GMT -5
Mapleshade is sympathized with because if she'd just quietly accepted the punishment, she legitimately would have been the only victim. Appledusk doesn't give a single care about the whole thing, Reedshine seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly, Ravenwing would be unaffected, and the two leaders obviously didn't care. The only one that seems to have been affected maybe is Frecklewish but Frecklewish was also an aggressive tool whose first reaction to seeing a now kitless Mapleshade insult her was to attack her. She's a victim because when basically every other cat in the series breaks the code, the punishment is a light slap on the wrist. None of what she did deserved the crap that happened to her. It doesn't justify her kills but given how the other characters are utter jerks who screwed her over, there's also an element of dark revenge fantasy in there. Anyway, Perchpaw gets spared fandom wrath because, unlike every other cat, he did not personally screw over Mapleshade. His kill was purely defensive. The first thing that came to mind was the Count of Monte Cristo, haha. The revenge fantasy drama is super common. Batman is a more mild one, Monte Cristo is kind of in the middle, and the million generic "tough guy kills criminals who hurt his family" action movies that are around are kind of around Mapleshade(maybe a little less). Absolutely there's a similarity in the sense that while the victims may or may not deserve the horrific suffering inflicted on them down to the letter, you still want to see these b**tards fall and enjoy seeing them get taken down a peg. At the same time, you can feel bad for Mapleshade being consumed by her hatred, going too far and becoming as bad and worse compared to her tormentors. It's not a zero sum game like some people make it and it really bothers me when people try to counter the rabid Mapleshade fanboyism with this idea that her victims were all totally okay. Let's face it, there's at least some schadenfreude to seeing these scummy cats get hit hard. Maybe not with Ravenwing and Reedshine, but when Frecklewish and Appledusk bit the dust? Yeah, they may not deserve to die but at the same time, Frecklewish basically killed herself and Appledusk could have avoided his own death by just exercising the barest of courtesies to the cat that he manipulated and treated like spit. Also, now I want to see Mapleshade doing Hell to Your Doorstep lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 23:13:39 GMT -5
I honestly don't feel like I've seen enough of all the actors in the fiasco to come to a positive conclusion. If I were I'd just be blindly going off of emotions. Whether you love or hate the book, it's an emotional rollercoaster that makes no logical sense. You're doomed to either be banging your head against the wall at how stupid Mapleshade is or raging at how horrible other cats treated her. Yeah no, I'm staying clear of any of that mess.
However, with what little information we do have, and with very little confidence, I think that Mapleshade was a good character who made incredibly unsmart decisions. She might have been insane in her murders but she definitely wasn't the brightest even before the whole meltdown. Ravenwing was incredibly superstitious and regardless of his intentions he should have never let his imagination potentially endanger innocent lives. Oakstar and Frecklewish shouldn't have let their pain harm others, and it was foolish of them to judge someone rashly based on emotions. Appledusk needed to be more faithful, and Darkstar and Reedshine needed to be more sympathetic.
Overal, everyone in the book were a bunch of angry brats lashing out at each other for one pain or another. This wasn't Mapleshade's Vengeance, this was Everyone's Vengeance, and to pit the blame mostly on one party or another is pretty dumb in my opinion, because if just one- one character in the whole craziness- didn't do what they did, most likely everything else along the line wouldn't have happened. But nope, one by one, each character that had a part in the disaster chose to do what they did and it got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 7, 2018 6:30:51 GMT -5
Admittedly part of me wanted Mapleshade to live a new and better life with Myler.
But at the same time, the other part of me wanted her to get back at the cats that did her wrong.
It's strange.
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Feb 13, 2018 19:41:38 GMT -5
Mapleshade is sympathized with because if she'd just quietly accepted the punishment, she legitimately would have been the only victim. Appledusk doesn't give a single care about the whole thing, Reedshine seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly, Ravenwing would be unaffected, and the two leaders obviously didn't care. The only one that seems to have been affected maybe is Frecklewish but Frecklewish was also an aggressive tool whose first reaction to seeing a now kitless Mapleshade insult her was to attack her. She's a victim because when basically every other cat in the series breaks the code, the punishment is a light slap on the wrist. None of what she did deserved the crap that happened to her. It doesn't justify her kills but given how the other characters are utter jerks who screwed her over, there's also an element of dark revenge fantasy in there. Anyway, Perchpaw gets spared fandom wrath because, unlike every other cat, he did not personally screw over Mapleshade. His kill was purely defensive. Honestly I think it's unfair that Mapleshade is the only one in the whole series that was exiled for having kits with a cat from another clan. As you said everyone else like Leafpool and Graystripe got a little slap on the wrist and everyone forgot everything. And I don't get why after Mapleshade's Vengeance no one cared about the code any more, only a handful of cats.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 4:14:22 GMT -5
Mapleshade is sympathized with because if she'd just quietly accepted the punishment, she legitimately would have been the only victim. Appledusk doesn't give a single care about the whole thing, Reedshine seems to have gotten over it pretty quickly, Ravenwing would be unaffected, and the two leaders obviously didn't care. The only one that seems to have been affected maybe is Frecklewish but Frecklewish was also an aggressive tool whose first reaction to seeing a now kitless Mapleshade insult her was to attack her. She's a victim because when basically every other cat in the series breaks the code, the punishment is a light slap on the wrist. None of what she did deserved the crap that happened to her. It doesn't justify her kills but given how the other characters are utter jerks who screwed her over, there's also an element of dark revenge fantasy in there. Anyway, Perchpaw gets spared fandom wrath because, unlike every other cat, he did not personally screw over Mapleshade. His kill was purely defensive. Honestly I think it's unfair that Mapleshade is the only one in the whole series that was exiled for having kits with a cat from another clan. As you said everyone else like Leafpool and Graystripe got a little slap on the wrist and everyone forgot everything. And I don't get why after Mapleshade's Vengeance no one cared about the code any more, only a handful of cats. Mapleshade and her kits were exiled while others not, because she came from a much stricter and harsher time. Over time the Clans attitudes have changed, compare Into the Wild and Omen of the Stars. In the first book, when Tigerclaw claimed he killed Oakheart to avenge Redtail, Thunderclan honored him for it, no one yelled "Murderer!" in his face, it was something he could even brag about at Gatherings. While in Omen of the Stars, Lionblaze accidentally killed Russetfur while defending his leader, but even Cats from other clans will hate him, not letting it go for moons.
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