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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 2, 2018 15:22:19 GMT -5
Who do you think really had the most clout of all the Dark Forest cats? Evidence seems to lean in many ways.
On the one hand, Mapleshade is remarked as being feared by all in the Dark Forest at least a little. However, when she flees the battle, the other Dark Forest cats don't seem to care much. She's not really in a commanding position unlike other prominent Dark Forest cats in the attack either.
Brokenstar is another candidate because it was only when he was killed that the Dark Forest cats completely break down and flee along with Firestar's mention to Tigerstar of Brokenstar's death being a key factor in the defeat of the Dark Forest cats. Counter example would be that he takes guff from Tigerstar after the debacle with Breezepelt and doesn't raise a particularly strong protest.
Tigerstar could be leader because he's the one who talks the most, but again, he's unable to rally the Dark Forest when Brokenstar is killed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 15:23:37 GMT -5
Brokenstar makes the most sense reading from that
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Post by Basement Cat on Jan 2, 2018 16:00:51 GMT -5
Mapleshade never acted as the Dark Forest leader. Sure, they feared her, but it's probably because she was psychotic. You don't mess with crazy. She was either manipulating cats in order to achieve her revenge, or acting like a boogieman and not really ever doing anything with it.
Brokenstar, while also poorly written like Mapleshade, actually acted like he was in charge of something. Yes, he was one-dimensional, but his sole role seemed to be ordering the DF cats around, even Tigerstar. I'm pretty sure Tigerstar took over when he saw his chance to. Yellowfang mentioned Brokenstar had a silver tongue that could charm cats. Maybe he was more respected by the DF denizens than Tigerstar.
Also, I find it curious that instead of Tigerstar, Hawkfrost seemed to be acting as unofficial deputy. I wonder if being slaughtered by a small cat they DF would find weak is the reason why he wasn't leader.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 2, 2018 17:00:49 GMT -5
Mapleshade never acted as the Dark Forest leader. Sure, they feared her, but it's probably because she was psychotic. You don't mess with crazy. She was either manipulating cats in order to achieve her revenge, or acting like a boogieman and not really ever doing anything with it. Brokenstar, while also poorly written like Mapleshade, actually acted like he was in charge of something. Yes, he was one-dimensional, but his sole role seemed to be ordering the DF cats around, even Tigerstar. I'm pretty sure Tigerstar took over when he saw his chance to. Yellowfang mentioned Brokenstar had a silver tongue that could charm cats. Maybe he was more respected by the DF denizens than Tigerstar. Also, I find it curious that instead of Tigerstar, Hawkfrost seemed to be acting as unofficial deputy. I wonder if being slaughtered by a small cat they DF would find weak is the reason why he wasn't leader. Could also be that Tigerstar knows the deputy's head is next on the block if the leader gets ticked off and so having his kid there is a good way to have both influence and security from being blamed for something. Also, Hawkfrost was far more sane than Tigerstar who by OOTS had essentially become completely obsessed with killing Firestar and nothing else. Hawkfrost took it all less personally.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 2, 2018 20:46:25 GMT -5
Brokenstar, simply for the reason that he literally was destined from day one to be evil, a punishment/test for the clans. There was never light in him. He embodies pure evil, and that's the kind of cat I can see leading the Dark Forest.
Mapleshade and Tigerstar both had moments of genuine care and dedication to others, in my opinion. Brokenstar, for me, was incapable of such feelings.
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Post by Tas on Jan 2, 2018 21:03:37 GMT -5
Brokenstar but I have nothing original with which to validate my choice so I'll just like everyone else's posts.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 3, 2018 5:36:36 GMT -5
Mapleshade but in status only, while Brokenstar seems to have taken command. Mapleshade was the one that planted the seeds and manipulated things far longer until Brokenstar died. Maple also seems to have more of a personal vendetta going on while Broken is just...basically a fuhrer.
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wildclantheclan
"Flowers die but still they find new light" Blixemi I'll Be Complete
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Post by wildclantheclan on Jan 3, 2018 19:37:42 GMT -5
Honestly I think it's like starclan but they brutally fight eachother for power in Dark Forest!
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Post by mothsnap on Jan 14, 2018 15:43:35 GMT -5
Mapleshade was the original leader. Brokenstar and Thistleclaw both died before Tigerstar so they also might have been leaders longer. However Tigerstar is obvious the main guy. Brokenstar was still a big for and assuming a lot of the Dark Forest cats were ShadowClan it's understandable some of the more cowardly ones would start to flee.
Also remember that it's the dark forest so I think having an actually leader is assuming too much especially since the dark forest has obviously been around a LOT longer than mapleshade even.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 14, 2018 15:57:50 GMT -5
I remember in The Last Hope, Dovewing said that the Dark Forest had no leader because Brokenstar and Hawkfrost were dead. And earlier in the battle, Ivypool asks Applefur is she really wanted to fight for Brokenstar's sake. This makes me think that Brokenstar and (for some reason) Hawkfrost were the leaders of the Dark Forest, although Mapleshade seemed to be the original leader, considering she seemed to be the catalyst when it comes to the Great Battle and organized training in the Dark Forest.
One Eye might be the Dark Forest's first leader though, since he was the first Dark Forest cat, even if the Dark Forest wasn't as organized back then.
Either way, it doesn't seem to be Tigerstar, no matter how many times the narrative lets us believe it, yet he still had a lot of say in the Dark Forest anyway.
Despite this, I don't think there's an actual leader of the Dark Forest. Some cats might just be more vocal and active than others.
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Post by mothsnap on Jan 14, 2018 16:05:23 GMT -5
I remember in The Last Hope, Dovewing said that the Dark Forest had no leader because Brokenstar and Hawkfrost were dead. And earlier in the battle, Ivypool asks Applefur is she really wanted to fight for Brokenstar's sake. This makes me think that Brokenstar and (for some reason) Hawkfrost were the leaders of the Dark Forest, although Mapleshade seemed to be the original leader, considering she seemed to be the catalyst when it comes to the Great Battle and organized training in the Dark Forest. One Eye might be the Dark Forest's first leader though, since he was the first Dark Forest cat, even if the Dark Forest wasn't as organized back then. Either way, it doesn't seem to be Tigerstar, no matter how many times the narrative lets us believe it, yet he still had a lot of say in the Dark Forest anyway. Despite this, I don't think there's an actual leader of the Dark Forest. Some cats might just be more vocal and active than others. Hmm... seems convincing, but that's super weird. Brokenstar fine, but Hawkfrost? I guess I can understand that, but wasn't he just doing whatever his dad said? Idk. He was the one interacting with Ivypool the most. I guess Tigerstar just cared about his kin. Ah wells.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 14, 2018 16:10:24 GMT -5
I remember in The Last Hope, Dovewing said that the Dark Forest had no leader because Brokenstar and Hawkfrost were dead. And earlier in the battle, Ivypool asks Applefur is she really wanted to fight for Brokenstar's sake. This makes me think that Brokenstar and (for some reason) Hawkfrost were the leaders of the Dark Forest, although Mapleshade seemed to be the original leader, considering she seemed to be the catalyst when it comes to the Great Battle and organized training in the Dark Forest. One Eye might be the Dark Forest's first leader though, since he was the first Dark Forest cat, even if the Dark Forest wasn't as organized back then. Either way, it doesn't seem to be Tigerstar, no matter how many times the narrative lets us believe it, yet he still had a lot of say in the Dark Forest anyway. Despite this, I don't think there's an actual leader of the Dark Forest. Some cats might just be more vocal and active than others. Hmm... seems convincing, but that's super weird. Brokenstar fine, but Hawkfrost? I guess I can understand that, but wasn't he just doing whatever his dad said? Idk. He was the one interacting with Ivypool the most. I guess Tigerstar just cared about his kin. Ah wells. I never understood that, either. Then again, Hawkfrost died young, so maybe Brokenstar had him be his "deputy" because he thought Hawkfrost was attractive and manipulative enough to lure cats like Ivypool and Blossomfall to recruit as trainees.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 14, 2018 17:27:32 GMT -5
Yeah, interestingly Tigerstar is always subordinate to Hawkfrost in the Dark Forest. There's an off hand mention of Tigerstar being part of Hawkfrost's patrol, meaning that he was actually taking orders from Hawkfrost. On the other hand, Mapleshade does get on Ivypool's case for "not cheering for our leader" while Tigerstar was talking, so there's that. He's also at the front of the invasion force though I guess that changed once Hawkfrost caught up.
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nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
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Post by nightfrost1211 on Jan 14, 2018 18:07:38 GMT -5
When i read Omen of the Stars, it almost seemed like Tigerstar was trying to become a type of leader in the Dark Forest and/or would say he was to Ivypool and the clan recruits, but in reality he wasn't. Kinda like Alpha in Survivors, where Alpha was an omega (lowest rank) in Blade's pack, but would act all high-and-mighty around other dogs and be aggressive behind his pack's back, pretending he was a higher rank than he really was
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dal
Pronouns: he/him; they/them
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Post by dal on Jan 14, 2018 18:20:05 GMT -5
to me, it always seemed like brokenstar was the leader. he was the only one that actually acted like it, as well. i would choose him.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 14, 2018 18:53:16 GMT -5
When i read Omen of the Stars, it almost seemed like Tigerstar was trying to become a type of leader in the Dark Forest and/or would say he was to Ivypool and the clan recruits, but in reality he wasn't. Kinda like Alpha in Survivors, where Alpha was an omega (lowest rank) in Blade's pack, but would act all high-and-mighty around other dogs and be aggressive behind his pack's back, pretending he was a higher rank than he really was Mapleshade at least seemed to buy into it, but she's not too smart/might be trolling Ivypool too.
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Post by Chocolate-Fawn on Feb 15, 2018 20:46:14 GMT -5
I honestly imagined Mapleshade as the queen of the Dark Forest. It was said even Tigerstar feared her.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 15, 2018 21:06:59 GMT -5
I honestly imagined Mapleshade as the queen of the Dark Forest. It was said even Tigerstar feared her. Scary she might have been, but she wasn't making any real decisions. She offered her input in the Dark Forest meetings, but she never made plans wholesale like Brokenstar did nor really changed them like Tigerstar did.
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