#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 10:12:44 GMT -5
I wonder, do any of you think that Sandstorm becoming friends and later falling for Fireheart was too rushed?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 12:37:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't say it's as rushed as rushed as Silver x Gray or Crow x Leaf, but it was a little bit rushed, yes. But at least it had some development, I don't think they got together until one of the last few books in the OS. Can't remember, been a while.
|
|
Bisexual
Snowfire
Pronouns: She/Her or They/Them
|
Post by Snowfire on Jul 9, 2017 12:51:43 GMT -5
A little bit, when I think about it, but it did have some good developement, unlike most other couples. That's why I really like SandxFire.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 12:59:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't say it's as rushed as rushed as Silver x Gray or Crow x Leaf, but it was a little bit rushed, yes. But at least it had some development, I don't think they got together until one of the last few books in the OS. Can't remember, been a while. Yeah, they developed a friendship after Sandstorm stopped bullying him in Fire and Ice, fell for each other by the time of Rising Storm, confessed their feelings for each other towards the end of A Dangerous Path, became mates in The Darkest Hour, and didn't even have kits together until after they rebuilt SkyClan in Firestar's Quest. That's about three years in total, and even then, they had their arguments.
|
|
|
Post by kinkajou on Jul 9, 2017 14:36:08 GMT -5
Yes
|
|
|
Post by snowfoot on Jul 9, 2017 21:26:01 GMT -5
Its probably the most developed relationship in the whole series after maybe squirrelxbramble, I actually am nearly finished my OS reread currently, and I found the relationship to be more fleshed out than I remember. That said this is literally just being measured against other relationships in the series which are all MAJOR instalove
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 9, 2017 21:38:17 GMT -5
I remember I ranted about this before? The way Sandstorm falls for Firestar, and the way Firestar realizes she has feelings for him always bugged me. The Erins used the common Knight in Shining Armor trope, where as this can work on pairings that developed off screen like Silver and Gray, it's poor writing for a long term relationship on screen, like Sand and Fire. There's so many other possible ways they could have executed it, but they chose the quickest one, despite all the time in the world they had. Also it takes several cats giving huge hints to make Fire realize Sand likes him, and it's annoying to see how oblivious he is. I mean...he can't be that dumb right? His taste in romance is strange, he loved Spotted who he only knew for a few moons, he didn't even notice Cinder, and wouldn't have noticed Sand if Cinder hadn't out right told him because she recognized her feelings immediately. Meaning he really is that oblivious....?? Also did Sandstorm ever apologize for bullying Firestar? That's another thing that bugged me....when you're doing the trope, bully to lover, I mean they could have at least do it right like Koe no Katachi style.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 21:49:48 GMT -5
I remember I ranted about this before? The way Sandstorm falls for Firestar, and the way Firestar realizes she has feelings for him always bugged me. The Erins used the common Knight in Shining Armor trope, where as this can work on pairings that developed off screen like Silver and Gray, it's poor writing for a long term relationship on screen, like Sand and Fire. There's so many other possible ways they could have executed it, but they chose the quickest one, despite all the time in the world they had. Also it takes several cats giving huge hints to make Fire realize Sand likes him, and it's annoying to see how oblivious he is. I mean...he can't be that dumb right? His taste in romance is strange, he loved Spotted who he only knew for a few moons, he didn't even notice Cinder, and wouldn't have noticed Sand if Cinder hand't out right told him. Meaning he really is that oblivious....?? Also did Sandstorm ever apologize for bullying Firestar? That's another thing that bugged me....when you're doing the trope, bully to lover, I mean they could have at least do it right like Koe no Katachi style. I like FirexSand, and even I agree with this. That's the thing that always bothered me about this pairing—Fire's extreme cluelessness (this is the same problem I had with Gray x Turtle), Sand never actually verbally apologizing (and neither did any of Fire's other bullies, for that matter, and I guess the actions do the talking anyway), as well as using the Knight in Shining Armor trope, but executing it rather poorly. I get it was supposed to be the moment Sandpaw realized Fireheart was more than just a kittypet, but it still felt poorly executed to me. It's still one of my favorites, but it's not without it's glaring problems. The Erins just don't know how to write romance.
|
|
|
Post by Alpha on Jul 9, 2017 21:56:03 GMT -5
I'm rereading Fire and Ice.
yes. I feel like Sandstorm just took a heel-turn towards Firestar in a rather odd way.
Dustpaw's and Fireheart's reactions towards it are gold though.
|
|
|
Post by kinkajou on Jul 9, 2017 21:58:06 GMT -5
I remember I ranted about this before? The way Sandstorm falls for Firestar, and the way Firestar realizes she has feelings for him always bugged me. The Erins used the common Knight in Shining Armor trope, where as this can work on pairings that developed off screen like Silver and Gray, it's poor writing for a long term relationship on screen, like Sand and Fire. There's so many other possible ways they could have executed it, but they chose the quickest one, despite all the time in the world they had. Also it takes several cats giving huge hints to make Fire realize Sand likes him, and it's annoying to see how oblivious he is. I mean...he can't be that dumb right? His taste in romance is strange, he loved Spotted who he only knew for a few moons, he didn't even notice Cinder, and wouldn't have noticed Sand if Cinder hadn't out right told him because she recognized her feelings immediately. Meaning he really is that oblivious....?? Also did Sandstorm ever apologize for bullying Firestar? That's another thing that bugged me....when you're doing the trope, bully to lover, I mean they could have at least do it right like Koe no Katachi style. I hate the hate-to-love cliche, especially when they never apologize I usually love childhood friends romances, which is why I like SandxDust I wouldn't mind Sand and Fire becoming friends though...if she started respecting him because he was a good warrior or something instead of out of obligation for saving her
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 9, 2017 22:00:51 GMT -5
I remember I ranted about this before? The way Sandstorm falls for Firestar, and the way Firestar realizes she has feelings for him always bugged me. The Erins used the common Knight in Shining Armor trope, where as this can work on pairings that developed off screen like Silver and Gray, it's poor writing for a long term relationship on screen, like Sand and Fire. There's so many other possible ways they could have executed it, but they chose the quickest one, despite all the time in the world they had. Also it takes several cats giving huge hints to make Fire realize Sand likes him, and it's annoying to see how oblivious he is. I mean...he can't be that dumb right? His taste in romance is strange, he loved Spotted who he only knew for a few moons, he didn't even notice Cinder, and wouldn't have noticed Sand if Cinder hand't out right told him. Meaning he really is that oblivious....?? Also did Sandstorm ever apologize for bullying Firestar? That's another thing that bugged me....when you're doing the trope, bully to lover, I mean they could have at least do it right like Koe no Katachi style. I like FirexSand, and even I agree with this. That's the thing that always bothered me about this pairing—Fire's extreme cluelessness (this is the same problem I had with Gray x Turtle), Sand never verbally actually apologizing (and neither did any of Fire's other bullies, for that matter), as well as using the Knight in Shining Armor trope, but executing it rather poorly. I get it was supposed to be the moment Sandpaw realized Fireheart was more than just a kittypet, but it still felt poorly executed to me. It's still one of my favorites, but it's not without it's glaring problems. The Erins just don't know how to write romance. Don't even get me started, jeez. I may prefer certain pairings over others, but it's mostly because they had potential and were wasted, and compared to canon see more appealing. There are some canon pairings I will accept, like Fire and Sand, but I have criticism toward because it wasn't executed better, despite having the widest range of possibilities to explore due to it being the most developed pairing in the series tbh. How do the Erins manage to even screw that up....then turn around and say they don't want Firestar to choose when he goes to StarClan, between Sand and Spotted, w-what?? I have so much issues with a lot of canon pairings, and there's only a handful of canon ones that are actually "okay" in terms of how they're handled.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 9, 2017 22:10:44 GMT -5
I remember I ranted about this before? The way Sandstorm falls for Firestar, and the way Firestar realizes she has feelings for him always bugged me. The Erins used the common Knight in Shining Armor trope, where as this can work on pairings that developed off screen like Silver and Gray, it's poor writing for a long term relationship on screen, like Sand and Fire. There's so many other possible ways they could have executed it, but they chose the quickest one, despite all the time in the world they had. Also it takes several cats giving huge hints to make Fire realize Sand likes him, and it's annoying to see how oblivious he is. I mean...he can't be that dumb right? His taste in romance is strange, he loved Spotted who he only knew for a few moons, he didn't even notice Cinder, and wouldn't have noticed Sand if Cinder hadn't out right told him because she recognized her feelings immediately. Meaning he really is that oblivious....?? Also did Sandstorm ever apologize for bullying Firestar? That's another thing that bugged me....when you're doing the trope, bully to lover, I mean they could have at least do it right like Koe no Katachi style. I hate the hate-to-love cliche, especially when they never apologize I usually love childhood friends romances, which is why I like SandxDust I wouldn't mind Sand and Fire becoming friends though...if she started respecting him because he was a good warrior or something instead of out of obligation for saving her Same, and I don't want to get personal about it, but I'm really critical on this type of writing, this trope and how it's handled because it's a real life issue, and many people have experienced it themselves. So trust me, it still bugs me to know that Sandstorm, nor any other bully of Firestar, ever apologized for what they did to him. It's like they let it gloss over, and that was that, a forgotten point that could have really developed their characters and relationships, tossed aside. Great opportunity and wasted potential. I guess this is why I was more akin to Dust and Sand, cause they seemed like two peas in a pod, one was probably following the other's lead because they had a crush on them, etc. So by hazing, it's a way to get that person's approval, this is why I brought up Koe no Katachi, manga, recently became a movie that executes the bully to lover trope very exceptionally. In the story, a girl is deaf, and she's bullied by a guy at school, along with the rest of the class. Another girl student likes the bullying boy that started the hazing, and joins in to get his approval. This reminds me of Sand and Dust, and their behavior towards Firestar. However, later on, when the boy is punished and everyone uses him as a scapegoat, and bullies him too, years later he found the deaf girl again, and apologizes to her. This time in sign language, it learned it for her. But he isn't forgiven just like that, his character goes through many trials and tribulations, trying to gain her forgiveness but also becoming her friend. The issue of him bullying her as a child is still here, it was forgiven, not forgotten, but they're able to develop to a point where the girl has feelings for the guy. It does become mutual, and shows the internal struggle of both characters, emotionally and mentally. Along with their relationships with others, like their family, and new friends, etc. It's a very good movie, but I suggest reading the manga, which is complete, and in fully english. With that beings said, the Erins had a lot of potential for Sand and Fire's relationship, but neglected it, and poorly wrote them instead. I think it just got to the point that because it's one of the longest running on screen relationships in the series, is why it's the most developed. But it doesn't mean it's developed probably, or that it's executed in the right manner.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 22:23:34 GMT -5
I like FirexSand, and even I agree with this. That's the thing that always bothered me about this pairing—Fire's extreme cluelessness (this is the same problem I had with Gray x Turtle), Sand never verbally actually apologizing (and neither did any of Fire's other bullies, for that matter), as well as using the Knight in Shining Armor trope, but executing it rather poorly. I get it was supposed to be the moment Sandpaw realized Fireheart was more than just a kittypet, but it still felt poorly executed to me. It's still one of my favorites, but it's not without it's glaring problems. The Erins just don't know how to write romance. Don't even get me started, jeez. I may prefer certain pairings over others, but it's mostly because they had potential and were wasted, and compared to canon see more appealing. There are some canon pairings I will accept, like Fire and Sand, but I have criticism toward because it wasn't executed better, despite having the widest range of possibilities to explore due to it being the most developed pairing in the series tbh. How do the Erins manage to even screw that up....then turn around and say they don't want Firestar to choose when he goes to StarClan, between Sand and Spotted, w-what?? I have so much issues with a lot of canon pairings, and there's only a handful of canon ones that are actually "okay" in terms of how they're handled. Well, Vicky said that the Spottedleaf thing wasn't the main reason they killed her off, but yeah, I get what you mean. This is exactly why I want to rewrite the series as a whole. The Erins just aren't great writers (even if I am enjoying AVoS). They're not bad, but they're not great either. Even in DotC—an arc I have long claimed to be my favorite arc, has its problems. Really, the only character I care about in that arc is Clear Sky. He's why I enjoyed the arc so much. Even Star Flower, for much as I argue for her, has her problems. I think DotC had it the worst when it came to romance, especially Clear Sky x Storm. I can understand how certain pairings are the way they are, but many of them—even the ones I'm okay with—could be written better. I think the only pairings I actually love are: Crooked x Willow, because I thought it was really cute. Jay x Half, but more because of the concept than the actual pairing itself. And Crow x Leaf, but more because of all the trouble it caused, plus it helped give the infamous Gathering scene with Hollyleaf, which still remains one of my favorite scenes in the series. And this is coming from someone who isn't even that fond of drama anyway. XD
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 9, 2017 22:36:29 GMT -5
Don't even get me started, jeez. I may prefer certain pairings over others, but it's mostly because they had potential and were wasted, and compared to canon see more appealing. There are some canon pairings I will accept, like Fire and Sand, but I have criticism toward because it wasn't executed better, despite having the widest range of possibilities to explore due to it being the most developed pairing in the series tbh. How do the Erins manage to even screw that up....then turn around and say they don't want Firestar to choose when he goes to StarClan, between Sand and Spotted, w-what?? I have so much issues with a lot of canon pairings, and there's only a handful of canon ones that are actually "okay" in terms of how they're handled. Well, Vicky said that the Spottedleaf thing wasn't the main reason they killed her off, but yeah, I get what you mean. This is exactly why I want to rewrite the series as a whole. The Erins just aren't great writers (even if I am enjoying AVoS). They're not bad, but they're not great either. Even in DotC—an arc I have long claimed to be my favorite arc, has its problems. Really, the only character I care about in that arc is Clear Sky. He's why I enjoyed the arc so much. Even Star Flower, for much as I argue for her, has her problems. I think DotC had it the worst when it came to romance, especially Clear Sky x Storm. I can understand how certain pairings are the way they are, but many of them—even the ones I'm okay with—could be written better. I think the only pairings I actually love are: Crooked x Willow, because I thought it was really cute. Jay x Half, but more because of the concept than the actual pairing itself. And Crow x Leaf, but more because of all the trouble it caused, plus it helped give the infamous Gathering scene with Hollyleaf, which still remains one of my favorite scenes in the series. And this is coming from someone who isn't even that fond of drama anyway. XD Even if I hate certain pairings, I think some should stay, for plot drama, but should be handled differently. Like CrowLeaf, great drama, and that infamous Hollyleaf gathering scene is great. But in the end it could have been handled better, especially consequence wise, for Leaf and Squirrel.
|
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 22:39:19 GMT -5
Well, Vicky said that the Spottedleaf thing wasn't the main reason they killed her off, but yeah, I get what you mean. This is exactly why I want to rewrite the series as a whole. The Erins just aren't great writers (even if I am enjoying AVoS). They're not bad, but they're not great either. Even in DotC—an arc I have long claimed to be my favorite arc, has its problems. Really, the only character I care about in that arc is Clear Sky. He's why I enjoyed the arc so much. Even Star Flower, for much as I argue for her, has her problems. I think DotC had it the worst when it came to romance, especially Clear Sky x Storm. I can understand how certain pairings are the way they are, but many of them—even the ones I'm okay with—could be written better. I think the only pairings I actually love are: Crooked x Willow, because I thought it was really cute. Jay x Half, but more because of the concept than the actual pairing itself. And Crow x Leaf, but more because of all the trouble it caused, plus it helped give the infamous Gathering scene with Hollyleaf, which still remains one of my favorite scenes in the series. And this is coming from someone who isn't even that fond of drama anyway. XD Even if I hate certain pairings, I think some should stay, for plot drama, but should be handled differently. Like CrowLeaf, great drama, and that infamous Hollyleaf gathering scene is great. But in the end it could have been handled better, especially consequence wise, for Leaf and Squirrel. Exactly! It's really the aftermath of the revelation that's always sort of bothered me.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 9, 2017 22:40:43 GMT -5
Romance isn't a necessity to a book's plot as proven in other series written by the Erins', but they like to shove rushed or just downright random ships down our throats in Warriors. I probably shouldn't be saying anything. I ship DovexTiger after all. Personally, I always thought DovexTiger in particular was completely unnecessary, along with a few other pairings.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 23:16:15 GMT -5
Yes it was a little but it was a well built realtionship. Not like Crow x Leaf which kinda moved too fast for my taste and just became a mess.
|
|
me
Why did I name Me ?
|
Post by me on Jul 10, 2017 2:37:19 GMT -5
When I think , I say yes .But in the same time , I'm happy how her relation with Firestar developed in time : She hated him because he was kittypet , they became friends after Firestar saved her ( showed to her that he deserves to be a warrior ), they became best friends , then they became mates .
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 10, 2017 2:46:50 GMT -5
Yes it was a little but it was a well built realtionship. Not like Crow x Leaf which kinda moved too fast for my taste and just became a mess. True. Because the way the Erins made it, always comes back to most readers thinking Crowfeather only liked Leafpool because he saw Feathertail in similarity to her. Which in my opinion is an awful reasoning for someone to fall for another person when it comes to writing reasons. I get their relationships is forbidden, but the Erins really did seem like they were pushing for it to seem "healthy and desirable" when it's just the opposite. And when it didn't make shift with the plot, they twisted it until it became ugly and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Their development was very short, and the scene where Crow confesses always bothered me. He sees Feathertail when he rescues Leafpool, even chants her name after then suddenly grabs Leafpool's attention and confesses. She's dumbfounded by it, and isn't sure herself, but she never even considered it herself. I felt like she only did it because Crow apparently liked her, so she liked him back after. It wasn't even that deep...I wish the romances in Warriors focused more on what's the inside, and not the outside.
|
|