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Post by Owlmoon on Apr 14, 2017 7:55:55 GMT -5
I dislike him. His personality just grates on my nerves.
When he was growing up, I felt like he was just an immature character that was naturally arrogant and annoying. I totally agreed with Ivypool and Dovewing. It was the boasting, bragging, bossiness, and arrogance that caused this dislike.
I read Dovewing's Silence again yesterday, and absolutely despised the way that he and Poppyfrost were hating on the Dark Forest cats. It was unfair. They hurt cats' feelings without a second thought.
As parents, Berrynose & Poppyfrost were pretty good. They cared about their kits and greatly supported them. No one can deny that. But, they were quick to believe that Sol was good cat. The only thing I really disliked about their parenting. Even if he had saved their kits, how do they know that it isn't a plan just to get himself into camp for an attack or something? They could've been more suspicious, the way they were for Hollyleaf at first. Then it turns out that she was the one that saved their kits, they changed sides completely and were suddenly on their knees.
I know that some people say that people hate Berrynose because they think he hasn't matured. That's not true. He has matured. But not enough. He's still immature.
Why do you dislike Berrynose? Do you dislike Poppyfrost at all?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 8:48:46 GMT -5
In some ways I believe that he has matured. While he didn't handle the situation with Poppyfrost right, Honeyfern confirmed that he's just scared of losing her and that's why he's making her stay in the nursery. He wants to protect her.
And a few times he was even gentle with Ivypaw and Dovepaw, despite being obnoxious.
He was truly concerned for the Clan in BrS when no one had planned to have kits together.
However, like you said, I still believe that he is immature. It's not enough for him to be deputy. His growth is slow, and if he's going to be deputy, then he has lots of maturing to do. He's still obnoxious, worse than Squirrelpaw because he's older and should know better, so he's gonna have a very long time to develop if people want him to be deputy. Dare I say it, but it seems like Ivypool is the only one fitting to be deputy.
Berrynose is not my favorite, I am neutral, but I don't like or dislike him either.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 14, 2017 19:14:56 GMT -5
Berry and Poppy remind me of modern Holly and Jagged, and that's not a compliment.
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Post by perfectlypink♥ on Apr 14, 2017 21:03:21 GMT -5
Moonblazer , we have to prove Berrynose to them
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Apr 14, 2017 21:08:19 GMT -5
Berrynose had quite a few obnoxious moments in SS. He really hasn't changed very much tbh. I still can't stand him, but I adored Hazeltail.
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 14, 2017 21:30:36 GMT -5
Berrynose simply is a character that they wrote for the audience to dislike. Which I hate, as he's really no worse than some othet warriors and cats that many people tend to defend.
Obnoxious? Sure, there are times. Annoying? Totally. But so were plenty of other cats.
Berrynose never neglects his kits like some other warriors. He genuinely loved Honeyfern, but when she passed, he didn't spend moons moping and moved on. He clearly cares for Poppyfrost and his kits, and he clearly is dedicated to his clan.
I mean, when you spend your gatherings as an apprentice being called a kittypet and when a whole patrol of cats watch while your tail gets slowly torn apart by a fox trap, the excuse being "that he's not a real clan cat.", I'd feel he'd have an inner desire to want to prove that he is far better than what he's labeled as. This will surely lead to arrogance, yeah, but at this point I can go down a list of far more arrogant cats.
And him finding fault in the Dark Forest Trainees? Uhm. They chose to join cats who clearly had bad intentions in the past. They went off training with dead and evil cats at night, probably were less than ideal on actual clan duties, lied to their clanmates, and some even had the gaul to try and hide during a battle they helped bring to the clans. Do I hate the trainees? Heck no. They're not bad cats, they had their reasons to join for training, but to expect clanmates to just sit there and forgive them in a heartbeat is so unrealistic. Berrynose and everyone else surely feels betrayed. He'd feel lied to, that cats he trusted were so willing to be trained in the dark forest.
Of course he'd never be deputy, as much as I'd be interested to see an outcome of that, but he's certainly not as bad as people make him out to be.
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Post by Owlmoon on Apr 15, 2017 6:33:37 GMT -5
And him finding fault in the Dark Forest Trainees? Uhm. They chose to join cats who clearly had bad intentions in the past. They went off training with dead and evil cats at night, probably were less than ideal on actual clan duties, lied to their clanmates, and some even had the gaul to try and hide during a battle they helped bring to the clans. Do I hate the trainees? Heck no. They're not bad cats, they had their reasons to join for training, but to expect clanmates to just sit there and forgive them in a heartbeat is so unrealistic. Berrynose and everyone else surely feels betrayed. He'd feel lied to, that cats he trusted were so willing to be trained in the dark forest. Well, here I have to disagree. This was after they had sworn the new oath to loyalty. And he still disliked them! They literally had to swear a new oath in front of all of their Clanmates and he didn't believe one word of it. Bramblestar literally said, You shouldn't mistrust these cats anymore. Besides, all of ThunderClan's Dark Forest cats fought for the Clan, not against. In the end, they were so confused and didn't know what to do until Ivypool came and told them to fight for the Clan. They obeyed her.
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 15, 2017 6:54:14 GMT -5
Actions speak louder than words. Time will heal any wounds, and I'd think it'll just take time for some cats to fully forgive the trainees. They can verbally swear an oath all they want, but they also verbally agreed to train with Dark Forest cats, too. I mean, wasn't his own brother one of the ones who hid from the battle with some of the trainees? I'd be pretty angry too.
I understand your feelings on the matter, though, and can see why you'd feel Berrynose could be disliked for finding fault in the Dark Forest Trainees. I hope Berrynose gets some moments of development because I really do like this character.
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Post by perfectlypink♥ on Apr 15, 2017 7:09:45 GMT -5
I think Berrynose has matured, but not many people have noticed (it's been a slow progression, that's for sure), especially when compared to Bramblestar's Storm where it's actually pointed out in the book.
After he had kits, he started to care more about clan matters than he used to. I feel like I remember Jayfeather pointed out that becoming a father changed Berrynose, but I can't quite remember which book, maybe Fading Echoes? Aside from doing normal Clan duties like helping around camp and going on patrol around territory, Berrynose also helps Dovepaw and Ivypaw improve their hunting and general skills for the clan, which I consider mature, and something that a good clan-mate would do. There was scene where he helped Squirrelflight organize patrols in TAQ, and I feel like we've seen him being in general a lot more helpful and mature around camp.
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Post by Owlmoon on Apr 15, 2017 7:50:38 GMT -5
I think Berrynose has matured, but not many people have noticed (it's been a slow progression, that's for sure), especially when compared to Bramblestar's Storm where it's actually pointed out in the book. After he had kits, he started to care more about clan matters than he used to. I feel like I remember Jayfeather pointed out that becoming a father changed Berrynose, but I can't quite remember which book, maybe Fading Echoes? Aside from doing normal Clan duties like helping around camp and going on patrol around territory, Berrynose also helps Dovepaw and Ivypaw improve their hunting and general skills for the clan, which I consider mature, and something that a good clan-mate would do. There was scene where he helped Squirrelflight organize patrols in TAQ, and I feel like we've seen him being in general a lot more helpful and mature around camp. I did notice that he has matured. But, he still hasn't matured quite enough to be called a 'mature cat'.
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