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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 12:27:06 GMT -5
Since there's a couple of topics about her, why not? Anyways, I don't really like Nightcloud all that much because I feel like she's not exactly the greatest example a mother should give to her kits. She's shown to be very aggressive (like that one scene when she dragged Crowfeather off of Leafpool), she didn't even give Breezepelt a chance to prove himself. She's manipulative, especially around Crowfeather. I mean, I guess I understand why she's changed (because in The Sight she was very good and loving until the truth came out), but that doesn't mean that she should act the way she does around Breezepelt. Breezepelt's always been around negativity (except perhaps his kithood) and his parents should be the heroes he should look up to. But unfortunately, Crowfeather wasn't really there for him, and Nightcloud wasn't exactly the greatest mother, either.
I also believe that she used Crowfeather as well. She was afraid to not have kits, so she took this chance while Crowfeather was single to have kits with him.
While the reason why she changed is completely understandable, I can't exactly like her. Since Crowfeather wasn't around for Breezepelt, Nightcloud really should have been a positive example for her son, but she wasn't and let her anger get the best of herself about Crowfeather instead, which affected Breezepelt and I think he eventually took after his mother's behavior as well as the Dark Forest's training.
I'm not saying she doesn't love Breezepelt. I do believe that she does, but what she's doing to her son isn't exactly the greatest example.
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Post by owlbranch on Feb 18, 2017 12:30:04 GMT -5
how she acted to breezepelt wasn't great. yeah, she probably loved him - but she wasn't prepared for kits. she wanted to have kits, but she shouldn't of. not yet, anyway.
you're probably right about her and crowfeather. not the best. probably one of the worst. she just used him for kits.
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Bisexual
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Feb 18, 2017 13:57:43 GMT -5
I hate her so much. People want to throw down Crowfeather when it can be argued she's just as bad, if not worse than him. Arguing about her makes me hate her more. If she dies in the books, I hope it's something pathetic like off-screen greencough because I don't want her to get anymore screen time. I'm not going to debate about this, either for any Night-lovers. She's trash. Period.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 14:27:22 GMT -5
I hate her so much. People want to throw down Crowfeather when it can be argued she's just as bad, if not worse than him. Arguing about her makes me hate her more. If she dies in the books, I hope it's something pathetic like off-screen greencough because I don't want her to get anymore screen time. I'm not going to debate about this, either for any Night-lovers. She's trash. Period. Exactly. People pity her because they think she loved him so much and wanted to be his mate, she probably did love him once, but now she's just awful ever since the truth came out. I dislike it when people put the blame on one character for a situation.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
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Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Feb 18, 2017 14:39:58 GMT -5
I hate her so much. People want to throw down Crowfeather when it can be argued she's just as bad, if not worse than him. Arguing about her makes me hate her more. If she dies in the books, I hope it's something pathetic like off-screen greencough because I don't want her to get anymore screen time. I'm not going to debate about this, either for any Night-lovers. She's trash. Period. Exactly. People pity her because they think she loved him so much and wanted to be his mate, she probably did love him once, but now she's just awful ever since the truth came out. I dislike it when people put the blame on one character for a situation. Yep. I recognize Crowfeather has flaws and like Nightcloud, there are reasons for those flaws.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 14:47:34 GMT -5
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁i agree with what you said!! i hate nightcloud so much. when i was much younger, i made a youtube channel called TheNightcloudHATER (its still up,a nd its all trash now anyways). i cannot STAND when people defend nightcloud. nightcloud is at fault. crowfeather is at fault. breezepelt is at fault. the windclan attitude is at fault. EVERYONE IS AT FAULT FOR HOW THINGS ARE NOW. nightcloud isnt a victim. i still stand by my headcanon that nightcloud used crowfeather jsut as much as he used her, and there is absolutely NO romance involved in their relationship at all.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Feb 18, 2017 15:25:54 GMT -5
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁i agree with what you said!! i hate nightcloud so much. when i was much younger, i made a youtube channel called TheNightcloudHATER (its still up,a nd its all trash now anyways). i cannot STAND when people defend nightcloud. nightcloud is at fault. crowfeather is at fault. breezepelt is at fault. the windclan attitude is at fault. EVERYONE IS AT FAULT FOR HOW THINGS ARE NOW. nightcloud isnt a victim. i still stand by my headcanon that nightcloud used crowfeather jsut as much as he used her, and there is absolutely NO romance involved in their relationship at all. You tagged me and I got scared that I was going to get yelled at. I'm glad that wasn't the case.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 18, 2017 17:00:05 GMT -5
I don't even know if I wanna even bother anymore.
God....wanting to have children one day doesn't mean you're using your partner. Just because it's convienant doesn't mean you're using your partner. If you're going to say Nightcloud was using Crowfeather just for kits, then Dovewing is no better because she chose Bumblestripe out of convenience too.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to have children one day, there's nothing wrong with wanting someone to feel the same way you do, what is wrong is trying to forced them to feel the same way.
Considering this is WindClan the environment is already hostile. And the family issues revolving around these three stems from Crowfeather in the first place. If he wasn't such a neglectful mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't be a helicopter parent and Breezepelt wouldn't hate his father so much.
Also can you really blame her for behaving the way she did AFTER the truth came out? She suddenly finds out her mate had kits in another clan, their enemy number 1--ThunderClan, and with a medicine cat at that. He's shown to openly have bias for his other kits already, even before the secret was spilled. He used them just to make himself look loyal in the eye of his fellow clanmates, and they were the hot topic of rumors for moons. Nightcloud ended up being caught in the middle of all this drama brought on by Crowfeather's actions.
Crowfeather willingly offered to be her mate.
Crowfeather neglected her and their son.
Crowfeather is the one that is involved in the scandal.
It's not that deep.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:39:30 GMT -5
I don't even know if I wanna even bother anymore. God....wanting to have children one day doesn't mean you're using your partner. Just because it's convienant doesn't mean you're using your partner. If you're going to say Nightcloud was using Crowfeather just for kits, then Dovewing is no better because she chose Bumblestripe out of convenience too. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have children one day, there's nothing wrong with wanting someone to feel the same way you do, what is wrong is trying to forced them to feel the same way. Considering this is WindClan the environment is already hostile. And the family issues revolving around these three stems from Crowfeather in the first place. If he wasn't such a neglectful mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't be a helicopter parent and Breezepelt wouldn't hate his father so much. Also can you really blame her for behaving the way she did AFTER the truth came out? She suddenly finds out her mate had kits in another clan, their enemy number 1--ThunderClan, and with a medicine cat at that. He's shown to openly have bias for his other kits already, even before the secret was spilled. He used them just to make himself look loyal in the eye of his fellow clanmates, and they were the hot topic of rumors for moons. Nightcloud ended up being caught in the middle of all this drama brought on by Crowfeather's actions. Crowfeather willingly offered to be her mate. Crowfeather neglected her and their son. Crowfeather is the one that is involved in the scandal. It's not that deep. I'm saying she used him to have kits because she clearly knew that he didn't love her. If TUG was right for once, then she knew all along that he still loves Leafpool. And excuse me? Do you think I don't approve of what Dovewing has done? She was wrong to use Bumblestripe and I know that she used him, especially since she compared him to Tigerheart constantly. Why else do you think I don't ship Dove X Bumble? Dovewing doesn't love him, she tried to use him to move on from Tigerheart, and Bumblestripe is a total jerk to her, lol. And yeah, I can blame her, actually. Because her behavior just shows to Breezepelt that it's okay and she's partly the reason why he's negative. Notice how I say partly. You do realize that all parents are at fault? She's aggressive, possessive and constantly jealous of Leafpool. It's natural to dislike your mate's ex, but when you're a mother you're supposed to be the supportive and good example to your child, you're not supposed to be a total douchebag and show off negative examples. Nightcloud isn't all sunshine and rainbows. She's not a good mother. Yes, I know why she changed. But I do blame her. Because her change has affected Breezepelt's change, not just Crowfeather and the Dark Forest. Crowfeather isn't the only terrible parent. Never once did I say it's wrong to want children, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:42:03 GMT -5
Breezepelt didn't have a father growing up. Nightcloud should have been a good example to him. But she wasn't. She was all he had left besides Heathertail.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:54:17 GMT -5
I'm not blaming just Nightcloud. I am blaming the ENTIRE family.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 18, 2017 19:50:03 GMT -5
I don't even know if I wanna even bother anymore. God....wanting to have children one day doesn't mean you're using your partner. Just because it's convienant doesn't mean you're using your partner. If you're going to say Nightcloud was using Crowfeather just for kits, then Dovewing is no better because she chose Bumblestripe out of convenience too. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have children one day, there's nothing wrong with wanting someone to feel the same way you do, what is wrong is trying to forced them to feel the same way. Considering this is WindClan the environment is already hostile. And the family issues revolving around these three stems from Crowfeather in the first place. If he wasn't such a neglectful mate and father, Nightcloud wouldn't be a helicopter parent and Breezepelt wouldn't hate his father so much. Also can you really blame her for behaving the way she did AFTER the truth came out? She suddenly finds out her mate had kits in another clan, their enemy number 1--ThunderClan, and with a medicine cat at that. He's shown to openly have bias for his other kits already, even before the secret was spilled. He used them just to make himself look loyal in the eye of his fellow clanmates, and they were the hot topic of rumors for moons. Nightcloud ended up being caught in the middle of all this drama brought on by Crowfeather's actions. Crowfeather willingly offered to be her mate. Crowfeather neglected her and their son. Crowfeather is the one that is involved in the scandal. It's not that deep. I'm saying she used him to have kits because she clearly knew that he didn't love her. If TUG was right for once, then she knew all along that he still loves Leafpool. And excuse me? Do you think I don't approve of what Dovewing has done? She was wrong to use Bumblestripe and I know that she used him, especially since she compared him to Tigerheart constantly. Why else do you think I don't ship Dove X Bumble? Dovewing doesn't love him, she tried to use him to move on from Tigerheart, and Bumblestripe is a total jerk to her, lol. And yeah, I can blame her, actually. Because her behavior just shows to Breezepelt that it's okay and she's partly the reason why he's negative. Notice how I say partly. You do realize that all parents are at fault? She's aggressive, possessive and constantly jealous of Leafpool. It's natural to dislike your mate's ex, but when you're a mother you're supposed to be the supportive and good example to your child, you're not supposed to be a total douchebag and show off negative examples. Nightcloud isn't all sunshine and rainbows. She's not a good mother. Yes, I know why she changed. But I do blame her. Because her change has affected Breezepelt's change, not just Crowfeather and the Dark Forest. Crowfeather isn't the only terrible parent. Never once did I say it's wrong to want children, lol. I used Dovewing as a general example. I'm not saying Nightcloud is 100% innocent. What I'm trying to point out is that Crowfeather is literally the cause for all of this from the start. It's cause and effect. Crowfeather's actions led to the other actions. And even Nightcloud knew Crowfeather had a thing with Leafpool before, how is she supposed to think he still loved her if he chose his clan over her, and wanted to be her mate. If anything it's mixed feelings and the wrong signals. Nightcloud is a helicopter parent. But not as bad as a parent as Crowfeather. And I was referring to the other comments when I mentioned the children. If this was a direct reply to you I would have just replied to your op.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:15:02 GMT -5
I'm saying she used him to have kits because she clearly knew that he didn't love her. If TUG was right for once, then she knew all along that he still loves Leafpool. And excuse me? Do you think I don't approve of what Dovewing has done? She was wrong to use Bumblestripe and I know that she used him, especially since she compared him to Tigerheart constantly. Why else do you think I don't ship Dove X Bumble? Dovewing doesn't love him, she tried to use him to move on from Tigerheart, and Bumblestripe is a total jerk to her, lol. And yeah, I can blame her, actually. Because her behavior just shows to Breezepelt that it's okay and she's partly the reason why he's negative. Notice how I say partly. You do realize that all parents are at fault? She's aggressive, possessive and constantly jealous of Leafpool. It's natural to dislike your mate's ex, but when you're a mother you're supposed to be the supportive and good example to your child, you're not supposed to be a total douchebag and show off negative examples. Nightcloud isn't all sunshine and rainbows. She's not a good mother. Yes, I know why she changed. But I do blame her. Because her change has affected Breezepelt's change, not just Crowfeather and the Dark Forest. Crowfeather isn't the only terrible parent. Never once did I say it's wrong to want children, lol. I used Dovewing as a general example. I'm not saying Nightcloud is 100% innocent. What I'm trying to point out is that Crowfeather is literally the cause for all of this from the start. It's cause and effect. Crowfeather's actions led to the other actions. And even Nightcloud knew Crowfeather had a thing with Leafpool before, how is she supposed to think he still loved her if he chose his clan over her, and wanted to be her mate. If anything it's mixed feelings and the wrong signals. Nightcloud is a helicopter parent. But not as bad as a parent as Crowfeather. And I was referring to the other comments when I mentioned the children. If this was a direct reply to you I would have just replied to your op. It was a topic I created, though, so I hope that the reason why I thought that was understandable. Sorry for coming off as fiesty there, I was very offended when I thought you meant that was directed at me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:20:09 GMT -5
I'm saying she used him to have kits because she clearly knew that he didn't love her. If TUG was right for once, then she knew all along that he still loves Leafpool. And excuse me? Do you think I don't approve of what Dovewing has done? She was wrong to use Bumblestripe and I know that she used him, especially since she compared him to Tigerheart constantly. Why else do you think I don't ship Dove X Bumble? Dovewing doesn't love him, she tried to use him to move on from Tigerheart, and Bumblestripe is a total jerk to her, lol. And yeah, I can blame her, actually. Because her behavior just shows to Breezepelt that it's okay and she's partly the reason why he's negative. Notice how I say partly. You do realize that all parents are at fault? She's aggressive, possessive and constantly jealous of Leafpool. It's natural to dislike your mate's ex, but when you're a mother you're supposed to be the supportive and good example to your child, you're not supposed to be a total douchebag and show off negative examples. Nightcloud isn't all sunshine and rainbows. She's not a good mother. Yes, I know why she changed. But I do blame her. Because her change has affected Breezepelt's change, not just Crowfeather and the Dark Forest. Crowfeather isn't the only terrible parent. Never once did I say it's wrong to want children, lol. I used Dovewing as a general example. I'm not saying Nightcloud is 100% innocent. What I'm trying to point out is that Crowfeather is literally the cause for all of this from the start. It's cause and effect. Crowfeather's actions led to the other actions. And even Nightcloud knew Crowfeather had a thing with Leafpool before, how is she supposed to think he still loved her if he chose his clan over her, and wanted to be her mate. If anything it's mixed feelings and the wrong signals. Nightcloud is a helicopter parent. But not as bad as a parent as Crowfeather. And I was referring to the other comments when I mentioned the children. If this was a direct reply to you I would have just replied to your op. You did say "you're" multiple times to me, so do understand why I thought it was directed at me. I apologize nonetheless, though.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 18, 2017 21:27:26 GMT -5
I used Dovewing as a general example. I'm not saying Nightcloud is 100% innocent. What I'm trying to point out is that Crowfeather is literally the cause for all of this from the start. It's cause and effect. Crowfeather's actions led to the other actions. And even Nightcloud knew Crowfeather had a thing with Leafpool before, how is she supposed to think he still loved her if he chose his clan over her, and wanted to be her mate. If anything it's mixed feelings and the wrong signals. Nightcloud is a helicopter parent. But not as bad as a parent as Crowfeather. And I was referring to the other comments when I mentioned the children. If this was a direct reply to you I would have just replied to your op. It was a topic I created, though, so I hope that the reason why I thought that was understandable. Sorry for coming off as fiesty there, I was very offended when I thought you meant that was directed at me. It's okay, it wasn't directed at you. But don't worry, tl;dr, I know both Nightcloud and Crowfeather were wrong with their actions. But I've noticed the fandom seems to put more blame on Nightcloud, even though Crowfeather is the source of drama, which confuses me a lot. Personally, I'm neutral on Nightcloud. When it comes to parenting, I think she did a better job than Crowfeather, she just wasn't the best mother either, she's a helicopter parent. A parent that tries to make up 2x as much for a child, because the other parent doesn't or because they died, like Shellheart and Mudfur. Whether it's with good intentions or not, sometimes it can lead to other behaviors like being spoiled, brattish, and arrogant. The other parent, has more blame, because of the cause and effect. If this parent didn't neglect the child >> It wouldn't lead the other parent to become a helicopter parent, and being over protective. Even though Nightcloud realized Crowfeather was using her, and didn't feel the same way, she stayed with him because they had a child. On the other hand, I hope they're not together anymore, Breezepelt is old enough. And the only reason they'd still be together is because Crowfeather still needs Nightcloud for his image. With the case of Bumblestripe and Dovewing, part of me feels that if they had continued their relationship they would have ended up like Stormtail and Moonflower. Where the relationship is just there for the sake of kits, there's not much of a spark, and one cat seems to be in love with another cat; Dovewing would be Stormtail, Dappletail is to Tigerheart, and Moonflower would be probably be Bumblestripe. It's saddening some relationships are like this, but I also find it to be realistic. I hope this wasn't too off topic, and I hope I've explained it properly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:33:48 GMT -5
It was a topic I created, though, so I hope that the reason why I thought that was understandable. Sorry for coming off as fiesty there, I was very offended when I thought you meant that was directed at me. It's okay, it wasn't directed at you. But don't worry, tl;dr, I know both Nightcloud and Crowfeather were wrong with their actions. But I've noticed the fandom seems to put more blame on Nightcloud, even though Crowfeather is the source of drama, which confuses me a lot. Personally, I'm neutral on Nightcloud. When it comes to parenting, I think she did a better job than Crowfeather, she just wasn't the best mother either, she's a helicopter parent. A parent that tries to make up 2x as much for a child, because the other parent doesn't or because they died, like Shellheart and Mudfur. Whether it's with good intentions or not, sometimes it can lead to other behaviors like being spoiled, brattish, and arrogant. The other parent, has more blame, because of the cause and effect. If this parent didn't neglect the child >> It wouldn't lead the other parent to become a helicopter parent, and being over protective. Even though Nightcloud realized Crowfeather was using her, and didn't feel the same way, she stayed with him because they had a child. On the other hand, I hope they're not together anymore, Breezepelt is old enough. And the only reason they'd still be together is because Crowfeather still needs Nightcloud for his image. With the case of Bumblestripe and Dovewing, part of me feels that if they had continued their relationship they would have ended up like Stormtail and Moonflower. Where the relationship is just there for the sake of kits, there's not much of a spark, and one cat seems to be in love with another cat; Dovewing would be Stormtail, Dappletail is to Tigerheart, and Moonflower would be probably be Bumblestripe. It's saddening some relationships are like this, but I also find it to be realistic. I hope this wasn't too off topic, and I hope I've explained it properly. It's a fine topic, but let's just agree to disagree, I don't wanna lose my temper again. ^^;; The Ashfur topics were horrible; we don't need another one of those again.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 18, 2017 21:42:09 GMT -5
It's okay, it wasn't directed at you. But don't worry, tl;dr, I know both Nightcloud and Crowfeather were wrong with their actions. But I've noticed the fandom seems to put more blame on Nightcloud, even though Crowfeather is the source of drama, which confuses me a lot. Personally, I'm neutral on Nightcloud. When it comes to parenting, I think she did a better job than Crowfeather, she just wasn't the best mother either, she's a helicopter parent. A parent that tries to make up 2x as much for a child, because the other parent doesn't or because they died, like Shellheart and Mudfur. Whether it's with good intentions or not, sometimes it can lead to other behaviors like being spoiled, brattish, and arrogant. The other parent, has more blame, because of the cause and effect. If this parent didn't neglect the child >> It wouldn't lead the other parent to become a helicopter parent, and being over protective. Even though Nightcloud realized Crowfeather was using her, and didn't feel the same way, she stayed with him because they had a child. On the other hand, I hope they're not together anymore, Breezepelt is old enough. And the only reason they'd still be together is because Crowfeather still needs Nightcloud for his image. With the case of Bumblestripe and Dovewing, part of me feels that if they had continued their relationship they would have ended up like Stormtail and Moonflower. Where the relationship is just there for the sake of kits, there's not much of a spark, and one cat seems to be in love with another cat; Dovewing would be Stormtail, Dappletail is to Tigerheart, and Moonflower would be probably be Bumblestripe. It's saddening some relationships are like this, but I also find it to be realistic. I hope this wasn't too off topic, and I hope I've explained it properly. It's a fine topic, but let's just agree to disagree, I don't wanna lose my temper again. ^^;; The Ashfur topics were horrible; we don't need another one of those again. True, but I do understand by what you mean when you blame both sides. And yeah those Ashfur topics are a whole different level, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:46:23 GMT -5
It's a fine topic, but let's just agree to disagree, I don't wanna lose my temper again. ^^;; The Ashfur topics were horrible; we don't need another one of those again. True, but I do understand by what you mean when you blame both sides. And yeah those Ashfur topics are a whole different level, lol. Yep. I would never insult anyone like they did in the Ashfur topics (not calling names), that was just horrible, and bullying, and unforgivable. I do have a temper, but never would I call names on someone. Deposits the disagreements we might have had in the past or will in the future, I wouldn't ever insult you like that. It's horrible and even dishonorable. I could never forgive people - or myself - to behave like that. Because they control their own actions. They chose to act like that. I might take a break from the forums, it's been so heated lately and I don't need more negativity. I just got a new leopard gecko, I am more focused on taking care of him and finding myself a job. So catchya later!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:47:05 GMT -5
*despite.. really phone?? Wow
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