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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 19:24:28 GMT -5
I might be a bit too overprotective, despite her being a fictional character, but it bothers me how people say that she doesn't deserve StarClan.
Sure, back in Sunrise she wasn't right in the mind and killed Ashfur in cold blood.. but keep in mind, Hollyleaf was going through a lot of stress back then. I mean, think about it:
Both Leafpool and Squirrelflight lied to her, and she looked up to both of these cats, one as her former mentor, and one as her mother
She wanted her father, Crowfeather, to be proud of them. But in the end, he wanted nothing to do with the Three.
Ashfur tried to burn her and her brothers alive.
She discovered that she is half-Clan.
Ashfur threatened to ruin their reputation.
People forget that she's so attached to the warrior code. Now, this isn't exactly healthy.. but it does explain why this lie had hurt her so much. She felt as though Leafpool had abandoned her. She was hurt that Squirrelflight, someone she saw as her mother, lied to her from the moment she was born.
Of course this news of the medicine cat and a WindClan cat being her parents would break her heart. Her own birth had broken the warrior code. She thought that she wasn't even supposed to exist!
All her life, Hollyleaf stood for the warrior code and tried to keep it alive. Can you imagine how she must have felt after learning the truth?
She knew she was wrong to kill Ashfur. She regrets it. Even shortly after she left in the tunnels, she missed Squirrelflight's company. She even missed Leafpool. This shows that she always cared about them. She never truly hated them, despite what she said.
She was overwhelmed with stress.
And let's face it, Ashfur freaking deserved what he got. It bugs me when people defend that jerk over her. He only got into StarClan because of author favoritism. He didn't earn it. And he had his chances. Did he try to make it up to the Clan? Did he try to move on? Did he try to talk to others about his tantrum? No. He kept hold of his grudge. He had warnings from the Three, even threats, but he still wanted to tell the truth at the Gathering. He could have talked to his sister. He could have just remained friends with Squirrelflight. But he threw a tantrum like a baby and left her.
Ashfur doesn't deserve StarClan. He wasn't even freaking insane! He hated Squirrelflight. Oh, he definitely knew what he was doing. He even said that he had a quarrel with Squirrelflight.. which must mean that he's had a quarrel against her for a very long time.
I really dislike it when people say that he went "insane". He wasn't insane. No, this freak was angry. He was so angry that Squirrelflight didn't want him, he wanted to kill her family.
Tell me, how in the hell, can this cat be justified at all? Do people just forget that he's held in a grudge for Squirrelflight for months? He didn't snap up until Squirrelflight yelled at him.
Ashfur doesn't deserve StarClan. His place belongs in the Dark Forest. I truly believe that Hollyleaf has redeemed herself enough, proved that she was sorry, by giving up her own life to Ivypool, a cat she barely knew.
Now, I am not justifying Hollyleaf, but it bothers me when people defend Ashfur, an obsessive, disrespectful freak, over her and excuse his actions, whereas Hollyleaf has actually gone through stress in her life and redeemed herself in the end, while Ashfur didn't. He had his chances to change, but he chose not to and stayed angry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 19:38:09 GMT -5
Why would she go to the Dark Forest ? She only killed Ashfur to save her Mothers secret. Plus she saved Ivypool and followed the warrior code all her life until she was in the tunnels.
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Post by Owlmoon on Feb 6, 2017 21:09:18 GMT -5
Why would she go to the Dark Forest ? She only killed Ashfur to save her Mothers secret. Plus she saved Ivypool and followed the warrior code all her life until she was in the tunnels. Exactly. Long live Hollyleaf! She never really broke the code. It was super stressful for her and she had to keep the knowledge of knowing that she was half Clan. In the end, she gave her life for Ivypool's. How could anyone ever say she belonged to the DF?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 21:24:12 GMT -5
Why would she go to the Dark Forest ? She only killed Ashfur to save her Mothers secret. Plus she saved Ivypool and followed the warrior code all her life until she was in the tunnels. Exactly. Long live Hollyleaf! She never really broke the code. It was super stressful for her and she had to keep the knowledge of knowing that she was half Clan. In the end, she gave her life for Ivypool's. How could anyone ever say she belonged to the DF? Eh, she did break the code. I'm not excusing what she's done. But I never understood why people think that she's a monster.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Feb 6, 2017 22:38:44 GMT -5
Yes, she showed remorse and redeemed herself.
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Post by whiteflight on Feb 7, 2017 9:51:58 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if I pissed off anyone, but I still wonder why she told the secret? She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't say it, but in the end she said it herself. So I'm just confused on why she did it.
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Post by Winterstorm on Feb 7, 2017 12:04:56 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if I pissed off anyone, but I still wonder why she told the secret? She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't say it, but in the end she said it herself. So I'm just confused on why she did it. She killed Ashfur before she knew about the whole secret. At the time she only knew that squirrelflight was not her mother.
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Post by whiteflight on Feb 7, 2017 12:22:59 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if I pissed off anyone, but I still wonder why she told the secret? She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't say it, but in the end she said it herself. So I'm just confused on why she did it. She killed Ashfur before she knew about the whole secret. At the time she only knew that squirrelflight was not her mother. Ohhhhh ok thanks now I understand why
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 13:15:32 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if I pissed off anyone, but I still wonder why she told the secret? She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't say it, but in the end she said it herself. So I'm just confused on why she did it. Eh, don't be sorry for questioning about a fictional character. If they get mad, then that's their problem. Also, sorry for removing you on Skype. ^^;; We never talk, so if I have accounts on there that I don't talk to, I tend to remove them.
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Post by whiteflight on Feb 7, 2017 13:17:09 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry if I pissed off anyone, but I still wonder why she told the secret? She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't say it, but in the end she said it herself. So I'm just confused on why she did it. Eh, don't be sorry for questioning about a fictional character. If they get mad, then that's their problem. Also, sorry for removing you on Skype. ^^;; We never talk, so if I have accounts on there that I don't talk to, I tend to remove them. XD it's alright
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 14:08:50 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 1:53:53 GMT -5
Pastybihyou're not that bright. im sorry ,but ur posts on the ashfur thread has me NOT liking people like you. hollyleaf made up for her actions by spending the rest of her short life being a loyal warrior again, proving herself by doing her duties, helping her clan with the tunnels, and even dying to protect ivypool. WHERE does ashfur ever deserve to be starclan? did he ever move on? no. he didnt KILL anyone, but he indirectly killed firestar (HIS LEADER, MIND YOU). he also ATTEMPTED DIRECT MURDER by holding the three in the smoke and fire. and did he EVER make up for it? no. he has been bitter for YEARS up til that point. what in ur skull makes u think that if hollyleaf DIDNT kill him, would he ever make up for all of this? after years of already not doing anything to try and be respectful of squirrelflights decisions? you're a joke if you think ashfur deserves starclan where hollyleaf, someone who actually ACTIVELY ATONED for her wrongs, deserves the dark forest. get your morals straight before you come argue with me. i don't like people who side with crazy characters. it shows ur flawed logic as a person.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:00:05 GMT -5
She broke the warrior code numerous times, in ways that are silly to justify. I believe she should go to the darkforest, but at the same time, Ashfur got a second chance, therefore she should as well possibly. Why compare Ashfur to Hollyleaf, when these cats have gone through completely different situations? Ashfur simply threw a tantrum, whereas Hollyleaf was overwhelmed with stressed.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Feb 16, 2017 2:00:17 GMT -5
I also love how people try and villianize Hollyleaf when she killed Ashfur. Saying how it was pointless for her to kill him, as she revealed it herself.
Firstly, when she killed Ashfur it was before she knew her actual parents. All she knew at this point was that Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw weren't her parents. She had no idea who her real parents were. She had the intention of keeping her family safe from Ashfur. Then when she learned of her actual heritage, she snapped under the pressure and hence revealed the secret.
So honestly her killing Ashfur was kind of justifiable. Yes, it was still wrong, but this cat did just try to burn her and her brothers alive. It's not like she did it just because. She did it to protect herself and her brothers. He was a dangerous threat to her actual existence. In my opinion it will always be seen as self-defense.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:00:57 GMT -5
And honestly, Ashfur deserved what he got. He was an a$$hole. I HATE him
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:18:58 GMT -5
She broke the warrior code numerous times, in ways that are silly to justify. I believe she should go to the darkforest, but at the same time, Ashfur got a second chance, therefore she should as well possibly. I said in the thread that I was not justifying her. I even said I knew she killed Ashfur in cold blood. I may love Hollyleaf, but I would never justify what she has done.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 16, 2017 2:57:19 GMT -5
She deserves it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 7:40:48 GMT -5
I see your side, I respect your opinions!! Im not trying to be salty or mean. But maybe bringing up Ashfur into topics might not be the smartest idea. Hes not very liked here and I get you're a fangirl. But Ashfur isnt a liked charecter here and I would suggest maybe flying away from that topic.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 16, 2017 8:00:45 GMT -5
Well, if we want to be technical about it, on whether she broke the code. The answer is yes, but not really in the sense of killing Ashfur. Ashfur, at that point in the story, committed treason, and is a traitor to his clan. If he was found out, there would have been possibly two scenarios. He'd be exiled like Tigerstar, but we all know how much problems that caused later lol. Or he'd be killed, like how Blackstar killed Redwillow for being a traitor. Hollyleaf killing Ashfur was a type of justice, not lawful justice, but vigilante justice.
On the other hand, threatening to kill a Medicine cat, is probably different. But again, if you wanna be technically, lol Leafpool was no longer a medicine cat at the time. And I mean hey, she broke two major warrior codes anyways. I'm just saying.
Morally, I'm not saying what she did was right, I find her actions understandable.
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Pastybih
step on my jordans n ill dance on yo grave ya hear
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Post by Pastybih on Feb 22, 2017 18:14:13 GMT -5
I see your side, I respect your opinions!! Im not trying to be salty or mean. But maybe bringing up Ashfur into topics might not be the smartest idea. Hes not very liked here and I get you're a fangirl. But Ashfur isnt a liked charecter here and I would suggest maybe flying away from that topic. I understand, and I wouldn't say I'm a fan girl, I just have an emotional connection to that character. And yah, I'll scoot away from the ashfur topic
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Pastybih
step on my jordans n ill dance on yo grave ya hear
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Post by Pastybih on Feb 22, 2017 18:15:06 GMT -5
Well, if we want to be technical about it, on whether she broke the code. The answer is yes, but not really in the sense of killing Ashfur. Ashfur, at that point in the story, committed treason, and is a traitor to his clan. If he was found out, there would have been possibly two scenarios. He'd be exiled like Tigerstar, but we all know how much problems that caused later lol. Or he'd be killed, like how Blackstar killed Redwillow for being a traitor. Hollyleaf killing Ashfur was a type of justice, not lawful justice, but vigilante justice. On the other hand, threatening to kill a Medicine cat, is probably different. But again, if you wanna be technically, lol Leafpool was no longer a medicine cat at the time. And I mean hey, she broke two major warrior codes anyways. I'm just saying. Morally, I'm not saying what she did was right, I find her actions understandable. That honestly makes allot of sense!
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Post by Aku on Feb 22, 2017 19:42:05 GMT -5
I'm not gonna bother reading the previous comments, just wanna put my opinion down so this may or may not have been said already.
Coming from a person who is neutral on Hollyleaf, I think she should go to the DF. Regardless of her actions being 'justifiable/understandable' or not, doesn't mean she didn't do it. She killed someone all because she didn't want a secret to be revealed but then later revealed it anyway? I'm not going to touch up on Ashfur being in SC and not DF, this is just my opinion on why she belongs in the DF.
She willingly and knowingly broke the code, a major one at that. I think that because of that, she deserves the DF. She may have also saved someone's life, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she killed a Clanmate in cold blood and also threatened to kill her own biological mother who is also another Clanmate (I forgot why she wanted to kill her, but it still doesn't excuse that).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 20:15:25 GMT -5
I'm not gonna bother reading the previous comments, just wanna put my opinion down so this may or may not have been said already. Coming from a person who is neutral on Hollyleaf, I think she should go to the DF. Regardless of her actions being 'justifiable/understandable' or not, doesn't mean she didn't do it. She killed someone all because she didn't want a secret to be revealed but then later revealed it anyway? I'm not going to touch up on Ashfur being in SC and not DF, this is just my opinion on why she belongs in the DF. She willingly and knowingly broke the code, a major one at that. I think that because of that, she deserves the DF. She may have also saved someone's life, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she killed a Clanmate in cold blood and also threatened to kill her own biological mother who is also another Clanmate (I forgot why she wanted to kill her, but it still doesn't excuse that). But she's not evil. She felt remorse for her crimes and made it up, in the end. If you've read Hollyleaf's Story, you'll see that she feels bad and still cares about her Clan, despite what she's done. She didn't even want to kill Sol. Really though, there should be an "in between" realm, between the Dark Forest and StarClan. Ashfur would fit that one more rather than Vicky sympathizing with the jerk.
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Post by Aku on Feb 22, 2017 20:50:00 GMT -5
I'm not gonna bother reading the previous comments, just wanna put my opinion down so this may or may not have been said already. Coming from a person who is neutral on Hollyleaf, I think she should go to the DF. Regardless of her actions being 'justifiable/understandable' or not, doesn't mean she didn't do it. She killed someone all because she didn't want a secret to be revealed but then later revealed it anyway? I'm not going to touch up on Ashfur being in SC and not DF, this is just my opinion on why she belongs in the DF. She willingly and knowingly broke the code, a major one at that. I think that because of that, she deserves the DF. She may have also saved someone's life, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she killed a Clanmate in cold blood and also threatened to kill her own biological mother who is also another Clanmate (I forgot why she wanted to kill her, but it still doesn't excuse that). But she's not evil. She felt remorse for her crimes and made it up, in the end. If you've read Hollyleaf's Story, you'll see that she feels bad and still cares about her Clan, despite what she's done. She didn't even want to kill Sol. Really though, there should be an "in between" realm, between the Dark Forest and StarClan. Ashfur would fit that one more rather than Vicky sympathizing with the jerk. I did read Hollyleaf's story, and regardless of her feeling remorse on it or not won't erase the fact that she had done those things. I don't think anyone can really make up for killing a Clanmate, regardless if they 'deserved it' or not. Just because she didn't want to kill one cat, didn't mean that she didn't want to kill another. She should have brought everything up with Firestar rather than killing him, but instead, she had selfishly ended Ashfur's life (for what I believe to be a worthless reason as she ended up announcing everything that Ashfur was going to do at the gathering). Also, I don't think that it ever mentioned her feeling remorse to what she had tried to do to Leafpool or mentioned her apologizing for that, but I could be wrong. I think an in-between area would work nice for a lot of characters, Ashfur and Hollyleaf included (I wonder what it would be called?)
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 23, 2017 0:02:11 GMT -5
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dark Forest is a place for certain cats.
I'm not going to include Ashfur because it was already confirmed he's only in StarClan due to bias, and because he's already written as a resident, there's no turning back now like they did with Thistleclaw, throwing him from one place to another before he was official written in canon as a DF cat.
"The Place of No Stars (informally known as the Dark Forest) is the opposite of StarClan's hunting grounds. It is a place where cats that have committed great crimes against their Clans and against the Warrior Code go when they die. However, cats who commit crimes but believe they are following the Warrior Code by doing them can usually join the ranks of StarClan instead, like Mudclaw or Ashfur."
Again, not counting Ashfur, because he did commit treason, did try to kill his own leader, frame his deputy, and tried to burn three innocent cats, of of which was a medicine cat. None of his actions can be justify.
However vise versa, Hollyleaf's can, because Ashfur threatened her, her family, made an attempt on her life, and wasn't even going to stop at that.
Thistleclaw, in canon, hasn't killed any cat. This is probably one of the reasons why the Erins found it so difficult to figure out where to send him.
"Vicky says that Thistleclaw was originally in StarClan and gave Tigerstar one of his nine lives, but when Bluestar joined StarClan, "she must have chased Thistleclaw to the Dark Forest." However, in The Ultimate Guide, Thistleclaw is not shown anywhere during Tigerstar's leadership ceremony. Vicky has since then contradicted her original statement, saying that Thistleclaw went to the Dark Forest right away."
There is at least four ways to end up in the Dark Forest, 5 if you count the trainees.
1. You can suddenly appear there, like Darkstripe after death, due to crimes 2. You can earn your way in, like Mapleshade,choosing your own residence 3. You can be chased from SC to the DF, like Vicky initially thought for Thistleclaw 4. You can accidently wonder into DF, after death or from SC, like Flametail 5. You can be lured into the DF, even in your dreams, like Ivypool and the other trainees
With that beings said, let's talk about Mudclaw. Mudclaw didn't go to the Dark Forest because he wasn't truley evil. He went there because he believed what he was doing was justified, imo I agree with him too. The deputy is supposed to succeed the Leader, Onestar never served as deputy. The only witnesses to the apparent change was Firestar, the former kittypet, Brambleclaw, the son of Tigerstar, and Onewhisker, who is best buds with the ThunderClan cats and that's no secret. So of course Mudclaw and the majority of WC saw it was supicious. No signs were given to the Medicine cat either, and the tree that fell on Mudclaw just was confirmed not to be a sign either. Tallstar's dream about an evil cat, wasn't Mudclaw, and it was just a dream. And the ones that encouraged Mudclaw to lead the rebellion in the first place were his own clanmates, Mudclaw had every right to challenge Onewhisker's supposed claim to leadership. And also gave him a clear warning to step down, when he didn't he took action.
We all know how it ended, but to this day I still believe Mudclaw was the rightful leader, in the end Mudclaw also went to StarClan. And if some of you didn't notice, he was in the last series, helping prepare for the final battle against the Dark Forest. Which shouldn't be surprising since Mudclaw strives to not be like corrupted cats such as Tigerstar and Brokenstar. The Dark Forest would not be suitable for a cat like him just like how it wouldn't be for Hollyleaf.
Now lets get to the newest additions to the Dark Forest: Brightflower, Lilywhisker, Marshcloud, Deerfoot, and Tangleburr.
I know there was a lot of discussion about these cats, and how a lot of people disagree with their residence. But from me, I have no complaints.
Which brings me to the 6th possible reason why cats might go to the Dark Forest. Because they believed they deserved it. Remember when Blossomfall said she deserved to be the Dark Forest because of how she felt toward her sister? Well the same can be said about some of these listed cats above. Also cats that CHOSE the Dark Forest, like Mapleshade did, doesn't really make Brightflower's residence so farfetched. She could have blamed StarClan for what happened to her kits, or was just too unstable in the head, filled with hatred that she found the Dark Forest more appealing. Or maybe she still blamed her daughter for what happened, and didn't want to in StarClan with her?
What's my point? Basically there could have been a chance Hollyleaf ended up in the Dark Forest, before her redemption, yes.
Before her redemption, Hollyleaf could have went for a number of reasons. Because she killed Ashfur, because she felt guilt and might think she deserved the Dark Forest, because she felt that StarClan betrayed her, etc. But after her isolation, and her clearing her mind, she realized what she did. Imo Hollyleaf wasn't exactly sane when everything went down, but in the end she ended up punishing herself. She didn't even want to be seen, or return, it's Lion and Jay that dragged her back. She also was about to tell the truth when Bramblestar intervened. Like I pointed out before, half of what Bramble said was true tbh, Ashfur was threatening her family.
So basically, to summarize it, there's a number of reasons cats can end up in the Dark Forest, even now a cat can simply cross it's borders and end up in the Dark Forest, just as easily as a cat in the Dark Forest can go to StarClan, possibly Ashfur's case? What I'm saying is that there's no clear cut answer for Hollyleaf either way. The only thing that best summarizes her residency is because of her redemption, which makes no sense for her to be in the DF afterward. She fought for her clans, and StarClan, choosing her side, and dying to say another warrior.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 12:01:21 GMT -5
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dark Forest is a place for certain cats. I'm not going to include Ashfur because it was already confirmed he's only in StarClan due to bias, and because he's already written as a resident, there's no turning back now like they did with Thistleclaw, throwing him from one place to another before he was official written in canon as a DF cat. "The Place of No Stars (informally known as the Dark Forest) is the opposite of StarClan's hunting grounds. It is a place where cats that have committed great crimes against their Clans and against the Warrior Code go when they die. However, cats who commit crimes but believe they are following the Warrior Code by doing them can usually join the ranks of StarClan instead, like Mudclaw or Ashfur." Again, not counting Ashfur, because he did commit treason, did try to kill his own leader, frame his deputy, and tried to burn three innocent cats, of of which was a medicine cat. None of his actions can be justify. However vise versa, Hollyleaf's can, because Ashfur threatened her, her family, made an attempt on her life, and wasn't even going to stop at that. Thistleclaw, in canon, hasn't killed any cat. This is probably one of the reasons why the Erins found it so difficult to figure out where to send him. "Vicky says that Thistleclaw was originally in StarClan and gave Tigerstar one of his nine lives, but when Bluestar joined StarClan, "she must have chased Thistleclaw to the Dark Forest." However, in The Ultimate Guide, Thistleclaw is not shown anywhere during Tigerstar's leadership ceremony. Vicky has since then contradicted her original statement, saying that Thistleclaw went to the Dark Forest right away." There is at least four ways to end up in the Dark Forest, 5 if you count the trainees. 1. You can suddenly appear there, like Darkstripe after death, due to crimes 2. You can earn your way in, like Mapleshade,choosing your own residence 3. You can be chased from SC to the DF, like Vicky initially thought for Thistleclaw 4. You can accidently wonder into DF, after death or from SC, like Flametail 5. You can be lured into the DF, even in your dreams, like Ivypool and the other trainees With that beings said, let's talk about Mudclaw. Mudclaw didn't go to the Dark Forest because he wasn't truley evil. He went there because he believed what he was doing was justified, imo I agree with him too. The deputy is supposed to succeed the Leader, Onestar never served as deputy. The only witnesses to the apparent change was Firestar, the former kittypet, Brambleclaw, the son of Tigerstar, and Onewhisker, who is best buds with the ThunderClan cats and that's no secret. So of course Mudclaw and the majority of WC saw it was supicious. No signs were given to the Medicine cat either, and the tree that fell on Mudclaw just was confirmed not to be a sign either. Tallstar's dream about an evil cat, wasn't Mudclaw, and it was just a dream. And the ones that encouraged Mudclaw to lead the rebellion in the first place were his own clanmates, Mudclaw had every right to challenge Onewhisker's supposed claim to leadership. And also gave him a clear warning to step down, when he didn't he took action. We all know how it ended, but to this day I still believe Mudclaw was the rightful leader, in the end Mudclaw also went to StarClan. And if some of you didn't notice, he was in the last series, helping prepare for the final battle against the Dark Forest. Which shouldn't be surprising since Mudclaw strives to not be like corrupted cats such as Tigerstar and Brokenstar. The Dark Forest would not be suitable for a cat like him just like how it wouldn't be for Hollyleaf. Now lets get to the newest additions to the Dark Forest: Brightflower, Lilywhisker, Marshcloud, Deerfoot, and Tangleburr. I know there was a lot of discussion about these cats, and how a lot of people disagree with their residence. But from me, I have no complaints. Which brings me to the 6th possible reason why cats might go to the Dark Forest. Because they believed they deserved it. Remember when Blossomfall said she deserved to be the Dark Forest because of how she felt toward her sister? Well the same can be said about some of these listed cats above. Also cats that CHOSE the Dark Forest, like Mapleshade did, doesn't really make Brightflower's residence so farfetched. She could have blamed StarClan for what happened to her kits, or was just too unstable in the head, filled with hatred that she found the Dark Forest more appealing. Or maybe she still blamed her daughter for what happened, and didn't want to in StarClan with her? What's my point? Basically there could have been a chance Hollyleaf ended up in the Dark Forest, before her redemption, yes. Before her redemption, Hollyleaf could have went for a number of reasons. Because she killed Ashfur, because she felt guilt and might think she deserved the Dark Forest, because she felt that StarClan betrayed her, etc. But after her isolation, and her clearing her mind, she realized what she did. Imo Hollyleaf wasn't exactly sane when everything went down, but in the end she ended up punishing herself. She didn't even want to be seen, or return, it's Lion and Jay that dragged her back. She also was about to tell the truth when Bramblestar intervened. Like I pointed out before, half of what Bramble said was true tbh, Ashfur was threatening her family. So basically, to summarize it, there's a number of reasons cats can end up in the Dark Forest, even now a cat can simply cross it's borders and end up in the Dark Forest, just as easily as a cat in the Dark Forest can go to StarClan, possibly Ashfur's case? What I'm saying is that there's no clear cut answer for Hollyleaf either way. The only thing that best summarizes her residency is because of her redemption, which makes no sense for her to be in the DF afterward. She fought for her clans, and StarClan, choosing her side, and dying to say another warrior. I think the Dark Forest has been changed a bit by Vicky. I mean, they did put Brightflower in there. So honestly I don't even know how cats can get into the Dark Forest anymore. But yeah, Ashfur was definitely out of author favoritism.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Feb 23, 2017 18:23:54 GMT -5
Yes she does.
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