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Post by kinkajou on Aug 2, 2016 6:57:34 GMT -5
Okay I'm not saying he's a bad leader or anything. I'm just saying he's not the "best in history" or whatever
I feel like the cats in the books give him too much praise. Honestly, he was average. He did what he was supposed to, he took care of his clan, but he just never did anything deserving of being called the Best Leader Ever
So what makes him so great?
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❆αυяσяα
remember that scene from up with the old man? Yeah. Sad.
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Post by ❆αυяσяα on Aug 2, 2016 7:14:09 GMT -5
he's the main character, apparently he needs no flaws so :/
the Erin's need to make him great so we can pray to him and worship him like the Erin's want us to yet we actually just make rants about him ..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 7:15:03 GMT -5
I think just saving the whole forest from BloodClan since he was the one who united all the Clans to stop them, But otherwise he didn't really do anything so special.
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 8:18:21 GMT -5
Nah. He died by a tree like," Kills cat in a simple battle the entire series had led up to. Simple death, oh look at that nice tree, OH MY GOD LIGHTNING FIRE DEATH, DEATTHHHH"
I was so freaking angry at his death, but as a character, he was horrid, I felt as if he were mary sue, oh i'm sorry, he's a he, so 'gary sue'.
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Post by Winterstorm on Aug 2, 2016 13:05:49 GMT -5
Nah. He died by a tree like," Kills cat in a simple battle the entire series had led up to. Simple death, oh look at that nice tree, OH MY GOD LIGHTNING FIRE DEATH, DEATTHHHH" I was so freaking angry at his death, but as a character, he was horrid, I felt as if he were mary sue, oh i'm sorry, he's a he, so 'gary sue'. He actually died of wounds. But it shows that his death was not well written. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 13:15:15 GMT -5
i've always thought that it would have been a lot more interesting to see in the newer arcs cats not being fond of him being so generous. like there's mentions from other clans, but thunderclan always has seen him as a wonderful and generous leader - it just would have been much more interesting to see him have actual flaws presented within his clan instead of the other clans.
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Post by whiteflight on Aug 2, 2016 13:22:49 GMT -5
My guess is the reason why he's a great leader is just like what Mouse said he united the clans to defeat Bloodclan. He was also the first Kittypet to become leader, but mostly in Thunderclan's eyes the reason why they find him a great leader is because he saw the evil in Tigerstar and brought him down. He also saved the clan from the dog pack and he also saved them all from burning to death from the fire. I think that's why the clans always call him a great leader.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 14:05:04 GMT -5
I think he is regaurded as a great leader, because he always did what was right, regardless of whether or not the majority of cats would agree with him. Most leaders do the opposite. They only help out if it's somehow convient for them. Firestar was always the one to try and convince the others to help out, and he was always the one making plans.
But with that said, do I think he's the best leader of all time? No. He's a very good leader, though. I am not sure any cat can claim the title best leader ever. They all make mistakes, some more than others.
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Post by Cheyenne on Aug 2, 2016 15:58:23 GMT -5
I like fireHEART...but FireSTAR? No thank you
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 16:06:55 GMT -5
I can see Firestar having flaws though. Like the entire "being too soft" deal is a huge reason why he's not a good leader. He's not aggressive or assertive. He imposes on the other clans, always butting into their business (which is where dumb old brambleSTAR gets it from. seriously, brambleclaw was great but once he became leader he's now firestar 2.0). Firestar also forced onewhisker to listen to dying tallstar even though it was against the code. Firestar's not the best but clearly not the worse. he's mediocre.
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Post by Yoshimi on Aug 2, 2016 16:09:41 GMT -5
firestar is such a mary sue  |
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Aug 2, 2016 16:10:34 GMT -5
Well, ThunderClan's population increased by about 10 cats under his reign so I'll say he was a pretty good leader.
In all seriousness, though, although he could be a little nosy at times, he always tried to do the right thing. Maybe he wasn't the best leader, but he was certainly up there.
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 16:52:33 GMT -5
Nah. He died by a tree like," Kills cat in a simple battle the entire series had led up to. Simple death, oh look at that nice tree, OH MY GOD LIGHTNING FIRE DEATH, DEATTHHHH" I was so freaking angry at his death, but as a character, he was horrid, I felt as if he were mary sue, oh i'm sorry, he's a he, so 'gary sue'. He actually died of wounds. But it shows that his death was not well written. Wow. I thought he died of a firey tree. .-. Interesting. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 21:22:10 GMT -5
Maybe because ThunderClan grew under him. In the first series ThunderClan was one of the smaller Clans, It became on of the larger ones under his rule. He also didn't cause a lot of senseless death.
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 21:23:31 GMT -5
He actually died of wounds. But it shows that his death was not well written. Wow. I thought he died of a firey tree. .-. Interesting. The tree that caught fire was the fallen tree that killed Longtail and injured Briarlight. |
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 21:27:18 GMT -5
Wow. I thought he died of a firey tree. .-. Interesting. The tree that caught fire was the fallen tree that killed Longtail and injured Briarlight. I know that, dude, not stupid. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 22:19:06 GMT -5
The tree that caught fire was the fallen tree that killed Longtail and injured Briarlight. I know that, dude, not stupid. in the post you said that you thought he died to a fiery tree. Most people who mention the tree think it fell on him. That's why I said the tree that caught fire was a tree that had already fallen. |
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 22:22:05 GMT -5
I know that, dude, not stupid. in the post you said that you thought he died to a fiery tree. Most people who mention the tree think it fell on him. That's why I said the tree that caught fire was a tree that had already fallen. False, I do not think the same tree that LongTail and Briar [Heart? Tail? I forgot,] killed him, it's true a tree fell, but it did not strike him, I was wrong, yes, but mostly right about a tree catching fire and him dying at that time. The tree was most likely a sign. Anyways my time is being wasted on an argument when I could be drawing, or writing, or anything of the sort. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 22:31:38 GMT -5
in the post you said that you thought he died to a fiery tree. Most people who mention the tree think it fell on him. That's why I said the tree that caught fire was a tree that had already fallen. False, I do not think the same tree that LongTail and Briar [Heart? Tail? I forgot,] killed him, it's true a tree fell, but it did not strike him, I was wrong, yes, but mostly right about a tree catching fire and him dying at that time. The tree was most likely a sign. Anyways my time is being wasted on an argument when I could be drawing, or writing, or anything of the sort. I think you miss read my post. I said usually the people who say that Firestar died due to the tree think it fell on him and killed him. I was pointing out that the tree that caught fire was the one that killed Longtail and crippled Briarlight and that it couldn't have fallen on Firestar because it was already a fallen tree. I know a tree didn't fall on him he died from his wounds, from fighting Tigerstar. Here is the Quote from the Last Hope Th tree didn't kill him. |
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 22:33:30 GMT -5
False, I do not think the same tree that LongTail and Briar [Heart? Tail? I forgot,] killed him, it's true a tree fell, but it did not strike him, I was wrong, yes, but mostly right about a tree catching fire and him dying at that time. The tree was most likely a sign. Anyways my time is being wasted on an argument when I could be drawing, or writing, or anything of the sort. I think you miss read my post. I said usually the people who say that Firestar died due to the tree think it fell on him and killed him. I was pointing out that the tree that caught fire was the one that killed Longtail and crippled Briarlight and that it couldn't have fallen on Firestar because it was already a fallen tree. I know a tree didn't fall on him he died from his wounds, from fighting Tigerstar. Here is the Quote from the Last Hope Th tree didn't kill him. And I think you misread mine. We both are obviously going no where, so leave it. Stop wasting your life trying to prove someone wrong when they've already admitted they were wrong before you even poked your nose where you didn't have to. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on Aug 2, 2016 22:41:41 GMT -5
I think you miss read my post. I said usually the people who say that Firestar died due to the tree think it fell on him and killed him. I was pointing out that the tree that caught fire was the one that killed Longtail and crippled Briarlight and that it couldn't have fallen on Firestar because it was already a fallen tree. I know a tree didn't fall on him he died from his wounds, from fighting Tigerstar. Here is the Quote from the Last Hope Th tree didn't kill him. And I think you misread mine. We both are obviously going no where, so leave it. Stop wasting your life trying to prove someone wrong when they've already admitted they were wrong before you even poked your nose where you didn't have to. Well you don't need to be rude about it. I just responded to the other post that was made. You didn't need to respond to mine if you already had your answer. The only reason I responded was because you made it sound like I was calling you stupid by pointing out something I thought you might have missed. Then I responded again because I thought you misunderstood what I had posted. That's all I wasn't trying to prove myself better than anyone just pointing out information...whatever sorry for wasting my time trying to be helpful. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 22:55:29 GMT -5
The tree that caught fire was the fallen tree that killed Longtail and injured Briarlight. I know that, dude, not stupid. Come on. This place is so much better than the original forums with no quarrels. Liger never called you stupid nor did she ever hint that you were stupid. Debating is completely normal for warriors, especially if you were on the original forums. Let's try to avoid fights, okay? |
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Post by ʀʜʏᴇʟʟᴀ on Aug 2, 2016 23:02:51 GMT -5
Definitely not the best leader ever (but he was a good and very influential leader), and it seems like only ThunderClan holds that opinion. The other Clans mock him. But it does make sense as to why ThunderClan thinks he was amazing. Firestar's united the Clans, he outed Tigerstar, he killed Scourge, he's the subject of prophecies, he died killing Tigerstar, and makes a good success story. ThunderClan is often criticized for bringing in outsiders. Now, all they have to do is point to Firestar. Where would you be without him, naysayers? It's easy to gloss over Firestar's not-so-good traits (except to encourage apprentices, ThunderClan will never forget Firepaw/heart's antics) with everything else he's done. Also, there aren't many legendary leaders to compare him to. All ThunderClan knows well are Bluestar, Firestar, and Bramblestar. There aren't as many stories to tell about the older leaders.
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Post by Archie [Formerly FerretFang] on Aug 2, 2016 23:15:16 GMT -5
I know that, dude, not stupid. Come on. This place is so much better than the original forums with no quarrels. Liger never called you stupid nor did she ever hint that you were stupid. Debating is completely normal for warriors, especially if you were on the original forums. Let's try to avoid fights, okay? It was never a debate. I already admitted I was wrong before they even commented, I never admitted anything actually. I simply stated that I was surprised that I hadn't known it wasn't the tree that killed FireStar, Liger could've avoided this 'debate' that never actually existed. As I said before. It was never a 'debate'. But ill try and avoid fights. Even though i'm literally the saltest salt storm you'll ever meet. |
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