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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 15:27:38 GMT -5
So I'm lurking around the forums and I see that people actually loathe Leafstar. But what's so bad about her? Sure, she doesn't make the greatest decisions, but keep in mind that SkyClan is still new. Leafstar is the first leader the Clan has had for decades! Leafstar wasn't the first one to make mistakes, and she certainly won't be the last.
Besides, is it really fair to judge her so much for letting in the daylight Warriors? She respects Firestar and wants to keep the Clan going for him. If she didn't let the daylight Warriors in, then SkyClan would be driven apart.
SkyClan is still new and it's not going to be perfect. And the names? Firestar and Sandstorm never told her they didn't need to not sound right. Yes, Sandstorm told Firestar that certain names weren't right, but she didn't tell Leafstar when she was leader. They left after their job was done.
I can understand why the SkyClan books are boring for people, but I personally think everyone is overreacting when they say they "loathe" Leafstar. She's just a leader who makes mistakes. There's nothing really to hate that much about her.
Leafstar is still a new leader and the Clan itself is still new. I can understand how it's boring for some people, but those who actually hate the Clan for not being perfect like the modern Clans just feels like they are overreacting to me.
And keep in mind they don't exactly live by the lake with the other Clans. So of course things will be different.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 15:54:55 GMT -5
Yeah. I actually kinda like Skyclan. And to be fair. As you said.
Skyclan is new and no one told Leafstar how to name her cats. Also , If kits are born in Skyclan the parents usually name them.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jan 2, 2017 17:25:35 GMT -5
And those same people will complain about Mary Sues in the same breath.
SkyClan doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets. It's a new Clan. Of course things are not going to be perfect! Everyone is still learning how to be a Clan, nevermind learning how to hunt and fight at the same time.
These people also forget that Leafstar never changes the prefix of the names. That'd why so many of them have unusual names.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 3, 2017 9:30:40 GMT -5
To me, she's always gave off female Firestar vibes. Also the daylight warriors, I called it from a long time back and said it would be their down fall, and I was right. It even happened how I said it would, they'd be attacked when half their clan isn't even there to defend it, smh.
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Post by whiteflight on Jan 3, 2017 11:09:36 GMT -5
She's ok imo since I don't care about Skyclan sadly
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Post by Owlmoon on Jan 3, 2017 16:38:46 GMT -5
SkyClan gets so much hate because other people think that they were just randomly thrown in by Erins to make the warrior world better. Jeez people cut them some slack. Leafstar isn't a bad leader either.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jan 3, 2017 17:50:21 GMT -5
shes just too stupid. If you asked me if I thought I could lead better than her, the answer is yes. However she is still a better leader than Half Moon. How is she stupid? Young and inexperienced certainly, but stupid? Not even close. A stupid character doesn't learn from their mistakes. Leafstar does.
The daylight warriors were necessary. SkyClan had what, four warriors when Firestar left? The Clan that size didn't stand a chance unless they grew rapidly. And they did. Five cats joined them permanently, two of which as elders. So that's only three more cats to protect the Clan and one of them became a queen almost immediately. So without the daylight warriors, the Clan would only have six warriors. Better, but still very vulnerable. Six cats joined as daylight warriors. That nearly doubles the Clan population. Sure they aren't much use during a night ambush, but they still helped protect and feed the Clan during the day. And what did you expect Leafstar to do? Make an ultimatum like Firestar and risk driving away six potential warriors? That was a sacrifice SkyClan couldn't afford. Don't forget that three of them joined permanently. One of them became a medicine cat and one fathered three kits with a SkyClan cat. That's a pretty big contribution to the Clan.
As for the cases of Stick, Sol, and Darktail, all of them came from inexperience. Stick and his gang joined the Clan when it was still very vulberable. Would Leafstar really turn away four permanent warriors? Of course not. How was she supposed to know they had ulterior motives? It wasn't like she was completely blind the situation either. She noticed how close Stick and Sharpclaw were getting and investigated. She got to the bottom of it pretty quickly.
Sol and Darktail were both different. They were charming and used the circumstances in the Clan to their advantage. Sol saved Leafstar and her kits. Any Clan would welcome him in after that. ThunderClan did after he "rescued" Molepaw and Cherrypaw. He wormed his way in and then started the chaos. He got past Firestar and Blackstar later on as well. Every cat was tricked by him, not just Leafstar.
Darktail joined because of the prophecy plain and simple. If he hadn't been found near the fire, then he would never have been welcomed into the Clan. He was once again very charismatic and tricked everyone. Leafstar was not at fault for that.
SkyClan is not perfect by any means. But it is not the abomination that everyone tries to make it out as.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jan 3, 2017 21:14:47 GMT -5
I don't like the way Leafstar reaches conclusions or makes decisions. I don't hate the concept of daylight warriors I hate what Leafstar does with them. Daylight Warriors are good as a temporary status. It allows for new members to get introduced to clan life and figure out whether they want to stay and t allows for leaders to analyze whether the members are trustworthy. It is not good as a permanent feature. Allowing most of the clan to be gone a lot leaves the clan vulnerable to attack and natural disaster. It creates a disproportionate balance of who is doing the work. The full time warriors naturally had to do more and this created animosity towards the daylight warriors. An animosity Leafstar never addressed. She often leeched of this attitude of "everyone is just being xenophobic" when that wasn't what the clan was saying. They were complaining about the daylight warriors not doing as much work because they weren't there all the time. Making daylight warriors a temporary position and then having them choose whether they want to stay after some time was a better solution and yet for some reason Leafstar never thought of that. When she started her romance with Billystorm she assumed everyone just didn't want her to have kits when everyone was more annoyed with the fact she was ignoring everybody's complaints. As for stick and all the other troublesome outsiders, this is where temporary warrior status would have been helpful, rather than just letting them in full warrior she could discern whether they were trustworthy before giving them full trust. Their problems may have been avoided if Leafstar was a bit more cautious. I just don't understand why none of this occurred to Leafstar. She knew there were problems and people were dissatisfied yet she didn't try to fix the problems with even a compromise. She didn't even really think about the problems. She just sort of thought "everything will blow over...." which is kind of frustrating because the problems weren't a scrape that heals. They were ongoing. I do agree that letting them remain daylight warriors long term was a bad idea. But at the same time, I do understand why she didn't force them to choose. Convincing kittypets to give up their soft lives and live in a dangerous gorge takes a lot of time and delicate steps. Ebonyclaw was an excellent warrior, but she is also too smart for her own good. She understood the risks that SkyClan was taking by leaving the gorge and probably viewed it as a suicide mission. If there wasn't that ultimatum after the battle, then she would probably have joined full time. Harveymoon wouldn't have joined regardless of the circumstances.
As for her ignoring the problem, I don't think that's the case at all. She just didn't know how to handle it. When the problem initially started, the Clan was still very new and she was a very new leader with zero prior experience. There was no precedent, no example to follow. This was very new territory and it was understandable that she wasn't too keen to deal with it. She had a very difficult decision to make. She could either appease the full timers and issue an ultimatum and risk driving away several budding warriors. Or she could patch it up a little while not pressuring the daylight warriors into a decision. She chose the latter and it was the right decision at the time. Two of the cats joined full time soon after and both were invaluable to the Clan. The Clan was so small and she couldn't take the risk of driving half of its warriors. But I will admit that by RF, it was worth risking the loss of three warriors by making them choose.
The situation with Stick started the temporary status of new members she implemented at the end of SD. We see this in SATS as well. She does make changes after each bad member. New members were restricted after Stick, no new members without being thoroughly vetted after Sol. We saw how xenophobic they had become by RF. They did learn, but it took tragedies and chaos to do it like with everything else. SkyClan really isn't that different from the other Clans in that sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 22:24:03 GMT -5
I don't hate her. I just didn't really like her leadership policies and her personality rubbed me the wrong way. But I think she's a genuinely good cat.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Jan 4, 2017 3:26:24 GMT -5
I don't like the way Leafstar reaches conclusions or makes decisions. I don't hate the concept of daylight warriors I hate what Leafstar does with them. Daylight Warriors are good as a temporary status. It allows for new members to get introduced to clan life and figure out whether they want to stay and t allows for leaders to analyze whether the members are trustworthy. It is not good as a permanent feature. Allowing most of the clan to be gone a lot leaves the clan vulnerable to attack and natural disaster. It creates a disproportionate balance of who is doing the work. The full time warriors naturally had to do more and this created animosity towards the daylight warriors. An animosity Leafstar never addressed. She often leeched of this attitude of "everyone is just being xenophobic" when that wasn't what the clan was saying. They were complaining about the daylight warriors not doing as much work because they weren't there all the time. Making daylight warriors a temporary position and then having them choose whether they want to stay after some time was a better solution and yet for some reason Leafstar never thought of that. When she started her romance with Billystorm she assumed everyone just didn't want her to have kits when everyone was more annoyed with the fact she was ignoring everybody's complaints. As for stick and all the other troublesome outsiders, this is where temporary warrior status would have been helpful, rather than just letting them in full warrior she could discern whether they were trustworthy before giving them full trust. Their problems may have been avoided if Leafstar was a bit more cautious. I just don't understand why none of this occurred to Leafstar. She knew there were problems and people were dissatisfied yet she didn't try to fix the problems with even a compromise. She didn't even really think about the problems. She just sort of thought "everything will blow over...." which is kind of frustrating because the problems weren't a scrape that heals. They were ongoing. I do agree that letting them remain daylight warriors long term was a bad idea. But at the same time, I do understand why she didn't force them to choose. Convincing kittypets to give up their soft lives and live in a dangerous gorge takes a lot of time and delicate steps. Ebonyclaw was an excellent warrior, but she is also too smart for her own good. She understood the risks that SkyClan was taking by leaving the gorge and probably viewed it as a suicide mission. If there wasn't that ultimatum after the battle, then she would probably have joined full time. Harveymoon wouldn't have joined regardless of the circumstances.
As for her ignoring the problem, I don't think that's the case at all. She just didn't know how to handle it. When the problem initially started, the Clan was still very new and she was a very new leader with zero prior experience. There was no precedent, no example to follow. This was very new territory and it was understandable that she wasn't too keen to deal with it. She had a very difficult decision to make. She could either appease the full timers and issue an ultimatum and risk driving away several budding warriors. Or she could patch it up a little while not pressuring the daylight warriors into a decision. She chose the latter and it was the right decision at the time. Two of the cats joined full time soon after and both were invaluable to the Clan. The Clan was so small and she couldn't take the risk of driving half of its warriors. But I will admit that by RF, it was worth risking the loss of three warriors by making them choose.
The situation with Stick started the temporary status of new members she implemented at the end of SD. We see this in SATS as well. She does make changes after each bad member. New members were restricted after Stick, no new members without being thoroughly vetted after Sol. We saw how xenophobic they had become by RF. They did learn, but it took tragedies and chaos to do it like with everything else. SkyClan really isn't that different from the other Clans in that sense.
oh she did do that. I didn't read the later books.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jan 4, 2017 11:58:19 GMT -5
I do agree that letting them remain daylight warriors long term was a bad idea. But at the same time, I do understand why she didn't force them to choose. Convincing kittypets to give up their soft lives and live in a dangerous gorge takes a lot of time and delicate steps. Ebonyclaw was an excellent warrior, but she is also too smart for her own good. She understood the risks that SkyClan was taking by leaving the gorge and probably viewed it as a suicide mission. If there wasn't that ultimatum after the battle, then she would probably have joined full time. Harveymoon wouldn't have joined regardless of the circumstances.
As for her ignoring the problem, I don't think that's the case at all. She just didn't know how to handle it. When the problem initially started, the Clan was still very new and she was a very new leader with zero prior experience. There was no precedent, no example to follow. This was very new territory and it was understandable that she wasn't too keen to deal with it. She had a very difficult decision to make. She could either appease the full timers and issue an ultimatum and risk driving away several budding warriors. Or she could patch it up a little while not pressuring the daylight warriors into a decision. She chose the latter and it was the right decision at the time. Two of the cats joined full time soon after and both were invaluable to the Clan. The Clan was so small and she couldn't take the risk of driving half of its warriors. But I will admit that by RF, it was worth risking the loss of three warriors by making them choose.
The situation with Stick started the temporary status of new members she implemented at the end of SD. We see this in SATS as well. She does make changes after each bad member. New members were restricted after Stick, no new members without being thoroughly vetted after Sol. We saw how xenophobic they had become by RF. They did learn, but it took tragedies and chaos to do it like with everything else. SkyClan really isn't that different from the other Clans in that sense.
oh she did do that. I didn't read the later books. Read the later books. Leafstar and SkyClan as a whole greatly mature, especially after SATS.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Jan 4, 2017 15:40:56 GMT -5
oh she did do that. I didn't read the later books. Read the later books. Leafstar and SkyClan as a whole greatly mature, especially after SATS. thats problematic considering I'm highly uninterested in warriors now
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Post by tiger beetle on Jan 4, 2017 16:16:08 GMT -5
I don't hate Leafstar, but I don't really like her either.
I mean, I kind of generally don't care for her? She was kind of boring to read about. But that's not really a reason to dislike her…
The daylight warriors made sense, but I do think she should have…at least strongly encouraged them to make a decision…if not outright made them choose. I can understand why she used the system, but it didn't seem the best idea. Also, I don't think she ever actually resolved the Clan drama surrounding it?
Also, when the full-time apprentices accept food from the old lady, Leafstar lectures and punishes them. This would be standard in any other Clan, but half of SkyClan's warriors went home to eat cat food every night. It's a plot point (I felt like it was in SD but it fits more in the plot of the manga?) that the daylight warriors hunt for the Clan but only eat cat food, so that way they increase the Clan's resources without consuming them. So…while warning them to be careful is a good idea, as long as they're also doing their duties, why does she have such a problem with SkyClan cats eating cat food?
Like I said, I don't hate Leafstar, but there are things about her leadership that get on my nerves.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jan 4, 2017 16:57:22 GMT -5
Read the later books. Leafstar and SkyClan as a whole greatly mature, especially after SATS. thats problematic considering I'm highly uninterested in warriors now When did you stop? From DOTC and on the writing quality has gone up exponentially.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Jan 4, 2017 17:34:22 GMT -5
thats problematic considering I'm highly uninterested in warriors now When did you stop? From DOTC and on the writing quality has gone up exponentially. I lost interest after yellowfang's secret. My friends talked me into reading dotc but they somehow made me even less interested.
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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Feb 13, 2022 22:28:59 GMT -5
Sand 🎃This thread is many years old and hasn’t been posted on in years, please lock it. Sorry if this is an inconvenience :’)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2022 22:32:25 GMT -5
Please don't necropost this thread is 5 years old
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