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Rant
Aug 1, 2016 19:16:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 19:16:24 GMT -5
(DEEP BREATH)
I honestly cannot take any interest in Sandstorm. It's not that I hate her, per say, but Sandstorm is typically sort of. . . .uninteresting. Apart from being Firestar's mate and having goaded him during the past, nothing really. . . . distinguishes Sandstorm.
I would have enjoyed her having some significant flaws, like perhaps being impulsive or imprudent or argumentative or something. I wouldn't've enjoyed Sandstorm having a peppy, 'sassy' personality like Squirrelflight, but perhaps more thoughtful, patient, maybe quieter. . . .? Or maybe they could have taken another approach. Sandstorm could've been dismissive or could have been very grounded, to the point of being unpleasant to some degree. The point is, the possibilities are endless, but the Erins seem kind of oblivious to that fact.
Same with Jayfeather. I certainly enjoy having a cranky, blind little gremlin to read about, but sometimes the Erins go a bit overboard with his crankiness. In AVoS, for example, he's seen being harsh to Alderpaw for no apparent reason. I wish they could give Jayfeather a '3-D', intriguing personality. Perhaps the Erins could've given him a soft spot for kits, or something, a little something else to tone down his constant disdain.
I also can't really say anything good about Alderpaw, or Sparkpaw. I could go on and on and on. Their personalities just seem very typical of the Erins. There was potential for them to create two very interesting young cats, but instead they went with their typical 'perky she-cat' approach with Sparkpaw.
Sparkpaw seems like something of a duplicate of Squirrelflight, but she's actually kind of worse. For one thing, her being almost identical to her mother just makes her more unpleasant in general. Secondly, she actually seems worse than Squirrelflight. I don't particularly dislike Squirrelflight. Sure, she has flaws, and she's not my favorite, but she's likeable, at least. But with Sparkpaw, there's something simply dislikeable about her that I can't place.
And Alderpaw reminds me of many other nervous toms before, I just can't place who, exactly. I can say Alderpaw isn't as bad, though.
Needlepaw and her cronies are actually interesting, I could say. I don't think I've seen many cats similar to them. However, they just seem to make ShadowClan look worse; Rowanstar isn't helping. Is that what the Erins want?
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 1, 2016 19:32:55 GMT -5
I don't see Sandstorm as uninteresting and plain. As a young cat she was feisty, quick tempered and sometimes stubborn but also had a gentler and understanding side. After she had kits she mellowed out a bit and became more of that gentler side. We also didn't see much of her later on in the series so it's harder to establish what she's like now. I don't have any books on me to supply quotes, so this is just going off my memory and feelings towards her.
I haven't read AVoS so I can't comment on the others. I think with Jayfeather the only way he was made likable was by having his POV. If we just observed him from another characters POV (as with Alderpaw as you said) we wouldn't see much past the short tempered grouch he acts as. With his POV we saw his thoughts and his internal struggles which made him more relatable and allowed us to understand the cat he really is. I love Jayfeather but if we hadn't had his POV I most likely would have disliked him.
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Rant
Aug 1, 2016 19:43:12 GMT -5
Post by Bluebell on Aug 1, 2016 19:43:12 GMT -5
"And Alderpaw reminds me of many other nervous toms before, I just can't place who, exactly. I can say Alderpaw isn't as bad, though."
Ravenpaw?
"Needlepaw and her cronies are actually interesting, I could say. I don't think I've seen many cats similar to them. However, they just seem to make ShadowClan look worse; Rowanstar isn't helping. Is that what the Erins want?"
Yeah, Needlepaw is interesting as well as Sleekpaw(I can't remember but I think there was some subtlety on her not believing in StarClan.) But I think Kate said we would see a softer side to Rowanstar in Thunder and Shadow.
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Rant
Aug 1, 2016 19:49:29 GMT -5
Post by nem on Aug 1, 2016 19:49:29 GMT -5
Jayfeather is as nice as Eight.
It's there, but it is only for those he is close with. It is mostly showing concern over them and being polite.
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Rant
Aug 1, 2016 19:53:14 GMT -5
Post by Bluebell on Aug 1, 2016 19:53:14 GMT -5
But in regards to the rest of the rant, I do see how it could be hard to distinguish Sandstorm's significance outside of being Firestar's mate but that's probably because I haven't read that book in a while. But I do remember that she is noted to be an exceptional hunter and takes pride in it which is mentioned in Firestar's Quest when she misses prey. She's the kind of she-cat who doesn't want defending or cats fighting her battles. Like when she took offense when Firestar was afraid to give her Tawnypaw as an apprentice in fear that she'll be Tigerstar's target. And when she saw the frozen river as a an oppurtunity to attack RiverClan in Fire and Ice coud show that early on she wasn't hesitate to fight other Clans unlike Firestar. And she showed quite a bit of strong loyalty to her Clan over her love interest when she didn't want to disobey Bluestar's order to attack WindClan despite her mental state and false claims of prey-stealing.
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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Aug 1, 2016 20:29:32 GMT -5
In regards to Sparkpaw and Alderpaw... as Lzrd Wzrd states:
"[The Apprentice's Quest] focuses on Alderpaw and his sister Sparkpaw. The siblings play off of each other hilariously, as the eager and confident Sparkpaw constantly exhibits her prodigious acumen for learning warrior skills, while Alderpaw is constantly riddled with anxiety and misfortune. Pretty common stuff, but the reason I find myself so attached to these characters already is because the authors constantly inject these two with subtle bits of characterization. For example, in the opening ceremony, Alderpaw is apprehensive to the point that he gets lost in his own worries about possibly having to prove himself in order to become an apprentice. While this does seem to be a natural part of his personality, the writers expanded this trait further by linking it to a strong desire to please his father Bramblestar. Right off the bat, Alderpaw’s relationship with ThunderClan’s leader has some real weight to it and even more interesting is that it’s not entirely tied to his father’s high status. Early on Alderpaw thinks about how he and the rest of his siblings were born pretty late to be his parent’s first litter. He recognizes that they are the only ones who can carry on Bramblestar and Squirrelflight’s legacy, a burden which is multiplied further by the fact that two of their weaker siblings have already died. Knowing all of this, Alderpaw’s primary initiative is to prove his worth to his father and make him proud. Alderpaw’s ability to reflect and empathize with adults at such a young age not only serves to amplify a naturally endowed weakness, but it also seems to indicate that he’s really smart. Not many kids are capable of this level of analysis, yet it seems to come naturally to Alderpaw. This is further exemplified in future scenes, such as when Alderpaw reasons that the moor territory belongs to WindClan via process of elimination. Then when they head to the gathering, he’s told that all of the Owls around the lake are too small to carry off cats — a comment which he extrapolates to mean that somewhere there are owls that are big enough to do so and immediately he begins worrying about it and wonders why none of the other cats seem to care. These thought processes are such a perfect portrayal of a kid his age, especially his fear of these hypothetical owls. I don’t know about you, but as a kid I was always having thoughts like this. When you grow up, you gain perspective and learn how to properly assess such threats. However as a kid, you don’t quite have the ability to give a rational scale to things like that. Moments like this don’t necessarily have a large impact on their own, but they all contribute to thoroughly defining Alderpaw’s character. Based off of only a few chapters, I can already tell you tons of things about him just by examining the way he responds to the world around him. There’s never a moment where the author lists off a series of traits to the reader. None of the characters ever have to spell out any of his characteristics in a way that would feel unnatural. As is so often the case in this series, everything we learn feels organic, like we’re quiet observers of very real characters and events."
"I also want to briefly touch on Sparkpaw, who serves as perfect counterpart to her brother. Now I can see how some people might dismiss her as a Mary Sue, but I actually like what I’ve seen so far. While she is far ahead of the curve with regards to hunting skills, she isn’t perfect by any means. One scene in particular stands out, where Alderpaw is learning how to hunt and Sparkpaw condescendingly chimes in with a lot of basic advice that Alderpaw already knows. This is another characteristic that really resonates with me — you have the golden child who excels at everything they do, so they assume that they know everything and can teach others just as well as experienced adults. It’s a nice little touch to round out Sparkpaw’s character. This one moment immediately transforms her from a trope into someone who I can relate to people I know in real life. Later on, Sparkpaw recklessly races across the tree bridge to the gathering island in an almost show-boat fashion. This one-sentence event shows us that Sparkpaw isn’t just confident, but that she’s also developed a potentially dangerous sense of invincibility. The writers don’t linger on it though — it’s short enough so you might just forget about it until it becomes a problem later on — which knowing this series it definitely will."
It does become a problem, specifically, when Sparkpaw dislocates her shoulder while attempting to walk on a narrow branch to reach a bird. But that's not the point.
The point is, these two characters are brand new. They still have a minimum of five books of development to go (assuming they both survive that long, which they almost certainly will). Even now, you can see that their personalities aren't bland, or based off of a single trait each. It looks like the author has finished building the foundation of their personalities, and is ready to start developing them. Because of this, we shouldn't be so quick to judge Alderpaw and Sparkpaw. The same goes for Needlepaw and the other new characters.
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Post by ʀʜʏᴇʟʟᴀ on Aug 2, 2016 0:59:40 GMT -5
I honestly cannot take any interest in Sandstorm. It's not that I hate her, per say, but Sandstorm is typically sort of. . . .uninteresting. Apart from being Firestar's mate and having goaded him during the past, nothing really. . . . distinguishes Sandstorm.
I would have enjoyed her having some significant flaws, like perhaps being impulsive or imprudent or argumentative or something. I wouldn't've enjoyed Sandstorm having a peppy, 'sassy' personality like Squirrelflight, but perhaps more thoughtful, patient, maybe quieter. . . .? Or maybe they could have taken another approach. Sandstorm could've been dismissive or could have been very grounded, to the point of being unpleasant to some degree. The point is, the possibilities are endless, but the Erins seem kind of oblivious to that fact.
Huh? Impulsive, imprudent, and especially argumentative describe Sandstorm. Impulsive: Here, Sandpaw impulsively turns on Fireheart before thinking about it. A much nicer Sandpaw than before, but still spontaneous. Frozen river? RAID Imprudent: Argumentative:
Thoughtful: Patient: Come on, any cat who would stick by Firestar's side, waiting for him to figure out that they liked him, has the patience of a saint. He's..not the sharpest when it comes to love. And don't forget that she's Squirrelflight's mother and Sorreltail's mentor. Dismissive: "Hi" "bye loser, ew" Grounded: ..and so they journey on to the river. oh, a flood, what a surprise. whoops, both almost drowned—wait, where's Sandstorm? swept away, leaving Firestar to angst about how he should have listened to her, then "waste" two days looking for her. These are just the examples I could think of from the earlier series. (with a few exceptions) I'm certain there are dozens more (and many better quotes I didn't think of), but it's past midnight and I'm getting tired. tldr; Sandstorm is a very complex and developed character and rhyella needs to sleep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 0:26:40 GMT -5
I can hardly remember Sandstorm’s pre-motherhood behavior, so my commentary about her was simply prejudiced. I admit, I misjudged her. After reading the arguments provided, I understand that she is a well-written character when viewed from an educated perspective. I primarily discussed her behavior during her most recent years, when she became more of a bystander. Honestly, now that I’m viewing her from another angle, I think I’ve gained a tidbit of respect for her gradual development throughout the books—from immature apprentice, all the way to a gentle mother, eventually a seasoned counselor. I can’t say she’s my absolute favorite, but I think my past viewpoint was one-sided.
As for Sparkpaw and Alderpaw, it was wrong of me to judge them while their personalities are in the process of taking form. Hopefully the Erins actually meant to include the subtleties LZRD WZRD mentioned; I pray they'll use those as platforms atop of which to build complex characters and relationships. Really, whether that will happen, I don't know.
Sparkpaw and Alderpaw are still adolescents, far from adulthood, so I suppose we'll just have to observe their gradual completion as characters. Who knows who they'll become? Personally, I'm hoping Sparkpaw will actually grow up more mature than her brother, the opposite of what everyone would expect.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 13:24:56 GMT -5
Sandpaw- Aggressive, stubborn, feisty/fiery, a tiny bit arrogant, jealous, immature. Maybe a bit ignorant because she was only mean to firepaw because he's a kittypet.
After being rescued by Fireheart- She learned to respect him and that's why she's nicer to him from this point on. She learned that fireheart is a true warrior despite having been a kittypet. he proved himself to her and his act of rescuing her was a selfless act. She now thinks a bit highly of him and isn't mean anymore.
Sandstorm- she's a bit nicer in general now, but she definitely still has her outgoing and fiery personality. She is outspoken about her opinions, openly challenges fireheart when he does something dumb or if he ignores her or something. She's still stubborn and doesn't give up on her friends. She is shown to have a more gentle side and is very understanding of her peers.
Sandstorm as Fireheart's mate- very, VERY supportive. She is very kind and understanding towards fireheart. She was there for him when he was at his lowest low and didn't know what to do. She supported him through thick and thin. Without her, he wouldn't have been able to go against bloodclan because she was his rock.
As a mother- Her hidden gentle side is now more dominant after becoming a mother. She is much more gentle. She is still stubborn at times though. She is also not afraid to scold her kits (well mostly Squirrelpaw i think). Just like any good mother, she shows a lot of concern and worry when her kits are gone or are missing (squirrelpaw on the journey, leafpool in Twilight ). She also helped Squirrelflight with tom cat issues and helped her sort out her relationships as any good mom would.
As Firestar's support- she's always been his support, no matter what. She's not his deputy, but she still gives her opinion and thoughts and Firestar listens because he trusts her and thinks highly of her. Sandstorm in turn trusts firestar's judgement because she also trusts him and thinks highly of him. Their relationship is very solid and even, which is why imo they are the best ship in the entire series as a whole.
As a grandmother- Sandstorm is even more stubborn now that she's an elder. she is very kind to her grandkits (alder and dpark). She is very strong despite losing firestar in the final battle, but she is very happy talking to spark and alder, being their support from the elders den.
RIP sandstorm
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