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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Nov 6, 2016 16:23:15 GMT -5
In Into the Wild, Firestar has very few interactions with Spottedleaf. Even saying that they had a friendship would be a stretch. However, Firestar was an adolescent at the time, so it makes sense for him to develop a crush on her. An unrequited crush. Spottedleaf liking him back, on the other hand . . . that makes no sense. She barely knew him, and never showed any signs of falling in love. Yet, we're supposed to buy that they had some kind of tragic love story. Plus, she was a medicine cat.
Once she became Firestar's spirit advisor, the Erins tried too much hard to make her appear godlike; they tried to make her appear beautiful, wise, all-knowing, serene, and mysterious. She also had a "sweet scent". This isn't a case of Firestar being an unreliable narrator, because she's described in this way by other characters, such as Leafpool. Some might call her a Mary Sue. While she may come close, Spottedleaf does have one major flaw. (Though this is probably unintentional on the Erin's part), and it's that she can't let go. Spottedleaf had no relationship with Firestar, yet she refused to leave him alone. Simply put, Spottedleaf was obsessed. She couldn't move on, couldn't accept that Sandstorm was his rightful mate. Spottedleaf's Honest Answer is proof of this:
The first bit shows Spottedleaf's stalker behavior. She spent all of her walking hours searching for Firestar, when she surely had better things to do. Why couldn't she move on from a guy she barely interacted with? Not even StarClan knows.
The second part shows how immature Spottedleaf was. Firestar explicitly said that he wanted to move on, "that he couldn't be in love with a memory". She claims not to be a memory . . . which isn't true. In OoTS, Rock states that StarClan and the Dark Forest were born of memories. Clearly, Spottedleaf has forgotten that she is dead. Firestar was a living, breathing cat who deserved a happy life and a legitimate mate. But no, Spottedleaf wouldn't let him move on from a puppy crush. Spottedleaf also wanted to complain and whine about it, despite the obvious circumstances. She even says earlier in the narrative that she wants Sandstorm to "vanish like the dew". Let Firestar live his own life, for goodness sake!
This, combined with her Sue tendencies, makes her an unbearable character. She hardly qualifies as a love interest, and the Erins shouldn't have made her one.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 6, 2016 16:36:36 GMT -5
I completely agree with this! Spottedleaf really isn't as great as she's made out to be and it's made worse by the fact that even as she was dying a second time she couldn't let Firestar go. Even in SkyClan's Destiny she was shown to be upset when she was telling Leafstar about Squirrelkit and Leafkit.
It's kind of clear in Into the Wild that Firepaw does have a crush on her, but it's never clear with Spottedleaf until either The Darkest Hour or the second arc. According to Spottedleaf's Honest Answer, she began to develop feelings for him when he was taking care of Yellowfang, but there's never any indication of this at all in the books.
I liked how she was a sort of guardian to Firestar And his family, but it got annoying after awhile, especially after it became clear that she had an obsessive love for Firestar. However, besides Firestar's family, she also helped Leafstar and Ravenpaw. Now, whether this was because of their connection to Firestar is questionable.
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Post by Gяαч Sкч on Nov 6, 2016 17:13:02 GMT -5
Even though she is my favorite character I agree she has poor characterization. Firestar is her only driving force. She has no interests or character outside of him and those are weak characters. But I blame the Erins for this, not her. They could have done a lot with Spottedleaf but they didn't. They did the same thing with Feathertail.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 18:05:35 GMT -5
This. I don't understand why people don't like Sandstorm for yelling at Firestar when she found out that he was talking to Spottedleaf in his dreams. Firstly, Sandstorm and Firestar were together. Second, Spottedleaf is still obsessed with Firestar. And Sandstorm knew that they both had feelings for each other once. So of course Sandstorm is going to be suspicious about this. Thirdly, Spottedleaf just.. isn't the right cat for him. She's proven in Spottedleaf's Honest Answer that she will not respect his space, since she apparently tried to search for hours to watch over him, and stay by his side. Spottedleaf really should have just tried to move on. I would have been fine if she was just a regular StarClan guardian, but no, the Erins had to put in that Spottedleaf "fell in love" with Firestar.
This is why I like Silverstream more than Spottedleaf. Silverstream is probably one of the most helpful StarClan members and she actually let Graystripe go. Spottedleaf, on the other hand, never did. She even went as far as saying "My love" to Firestar just before she died twice.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 18:43:17 GMT -5
Even though she is my favorite character I agree she has poor characterization. Firestar is her only driving force. She has no interests or character outside of him and those are weak characters. But I blame the Erins for this, not her. They could have done a lot with Spottedleaf but they didn't. They did the same thing with Feathertail. i dont wanna be rude, but how is she ur favorite character? someone as f---ed up as spottedleaf shouldnt be anyone's favorite (just my opinion because i HATE spottedleaf with a burning passion). |
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Nov 6, 2016 19:13:58 GMT -5
The thing about Spottedleaf that I don't think a lot of people realize that she's supposed to be creepy… She's supposed to be similar to a stalker who never got over her first love, and people probably like her because she was pretty and defined by her tragic death… She could be considered a guardian to Firestar’s line, but since she's not shown many interests outside of him, this is doubtful. That, and they continue to receive more prophecies after she can no longer communicate with them…
She might have developed other traits or let go had she lived, but since she died so quickly (the first time, not the second), we have no way of knowing if that would've happened and no chance to know now.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 6, 2016 19:23:04 GMT -5
The thing about Spottedleaf that I don't think a lot of people realize that she's supposed to be creepy… She's supposed to be similar to a stalker who never got over her first love, and people probably like her because she was pretty and defined by her tragic death… She could be considered a guardian to Firestar’s line, but since she's not shown many interests outside of him, this is doubtful. That, and they continue to receive more prophecies after she can no longer communicate with them… She might have developed other traits or let go had she lived, but since she died so quickly (the first time, not the second), we have no way of knowing if that would've happened and no chance to know now. I don't think Spottedleaf was supposed to be creepy though, at least not at first anyway and none of the other characters except Sandstorm for a brief time never seem to be bothered by this. If this were intentional all along and was treated as an actual flaw within the story, it might've made her character more interesting. But since it's not, she just comes off as a very weak character. |
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Post by Gяαч Sкч on Nov 6, 2016 19:37:25 GMT -5
Even though she is my favorite character I agree she has poor characterization. Firestar is her only driving force. She has no interests or character outside of him and those are weak characters. But I blame the Erins for this, not her. They could have done a lot with Spottedleaf but they didn't. They did the same thing with Feathertail. i dont wanna be rude, but how is she ur favorite character? someone as f---ed up as spottedleaf shouldnt be anyone's favorite (just my opinion because i HATE spottedleaf with a burning passion). I just always liked her. I like her design and I like her name. And I see potential in her that could have been reached if she had been written better. I also like how she gave up her entire existance just to make Firestar happy. She could have let Sandstorm die but she sacrificed herself for Firestar's happiness. She was also my favorite when I was a kid so I feel nostalgic about her. And I dont view her as creepy or a stalker like other people do. I just never saw it. I have read all the Spottedleaf hate rants before and they have just never been able to change my mind about her. No matter what people say about her I just can't help but like her. Do I think she is a good written character? Nope. But she's still my fav. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 19:53:56 GMT -5
Gяαч Sкчit's very obvious she's a creepy stalker in Spottedleaf's Honest Answer. Constantly thinks about him? Check. Gets angry/upset when she can't see him? Check. Always watches him? Check. Only concerns herself with his kin just because they're his kin? Check. Possessive thoughts about him? Check. Wanting his mate to disappear because she is bitter? Check. the list goes on and on. it's grade A stalker behavior and thoughts. and the whole "giving her second life to save sandstorm" just comes off as desperate and selfish. it's not a brave act to me. all that scene showed me was that spottedleaf knew sandstorm and firestar would die soon due to old age (or whatever, since firestar dies of battle wounds, but u know what i mean), so instead of dealing with firestar still not going to her side in his death, she chooses to cease to exist because even in death, firestar will never love her back. it's a pathetic act. it was a sad, pathetic, and stupid action that showed spottedleaf is an obsessive creep who chose to cease to exist instead of face the truth that firestar will always love sandstorm, even when they die and spottedleaf will further be "cast away."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 20:33:31 GMT -5
Gяαч Sкч it's very obvious she's a creepy stalker in Spottedleaf's Honest Answer. Constantly thinks about him? Check. Gets angry/upset when she can't see him? Check. Always watches him? Check. Only concerns herself with his kin just because they're his kin? Check. Possessive thoughts about him? Check. Wanting his mate to disappear because she is bitter? Check. the list goes on and on. it's grade A stalker behavior and thoughts. and the whole "giving her second life to save sandstorm" just comes off as desperate and selfish. it's not a brave act to me. all that scene showed me was that spottedleaf knew sandstorm and firestar would die soon due to old age (or whatever, since firestar dies of battle wounds, but u know what i mean), so instead of dealing with firestar still not going to her side in his death, she chooses to cease to exist because even in death, firestar will never love her back. it's a pathetic act. it was a sad, pathetic, and stupid action that showed spottedleaf is an obsessive creep who chose to cease to exist instead of face the truth that firestar will always love sandstorm, even when they die and spottedleaf will further be "cast away."
Funny enough, in Leafpool's Wish, Spottedleaf yelled at Leafpool for getting pregnant, even though Leafpool asked Spottedleaf for advice on what to do, and Spottedleaf just screams at her?? Like?? You barely helped, Spottedleaf, and let her believe that it was okay to see Crowfeather. What makes you think you have the right to yell at her??
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Post by Gяαч Sкч on Nov 7, 2016 5:40:19 GMT -5
Well that's ur opinion. *shrug*
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 7, 2016 6:35:21 GMT -5
Even though she is my favorite character I agree she has poor characterization. Firestar is her only driving force. She has no interests or character outside of him and those are weak characters. But I blame the Erins for this, not her. They could have done a lot with Spottedleaf but they didn't. They did the same thing with Feathertail. i dont wanna be rude, but how is she ur favorite character? someone as f---ed up as spottedleaf shouldnt be anyone's favorite (just my opinion because i HATE spottedleaf with a burning passion). You are pretty rude actually. There are Spottedleaf fans. I used to be one. Not everyone has to view her as "f----ed up". If you have problem with it, cool. Now you can go home. |
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 7, 2016 6:37:28 GMT -5
In my opinion Spottedleaf is a very bad written character. Erins dod terrible job at developing her imo.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 16:18:21 GMT -5
@risingwingbriarjay86
Woah, you are being rude for not respecting her/his opinion
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Post by Wicked Witch on Nov 7, 2016 16:24:50 GMT -5
Gяαч Sкч it's very obvious she's a creepy stalker in Spottedleaf's Honest Answer. Constantly thinks about him? Check. Gets angry/upset when she can't see him? Check. Always watches him? Check. Only concerns herself with his kin just because they're his kin? Check. Possessive thoughts about him? Check. Wanting his mate to disappear because she is bitter? Check. the list goes on and on. it's grade A stalker behavior and thoughts. and the whole "giving her second life to save sandstorm" just comes off as desperate and selfish. it's not a brave act to me. all that scene showed me was that spottedleaf knew sandstorm and firestar would die soon due to old age (or whatever, since firestar dies of battle wounds, but u know what i mean), so instead of dealing with firestar still not going to her side in his death, she chooses to cease to exist because even in death, firestar will never love her back. it's a pathetic act. it was a sad, pathetic, and stupid action that showed spottedleaf is an obsessive creep who chose to cease to exist instead of face the truth that firestar will always love sandstorm, even when they die and spottedleaf will further be "cast away."
Funny enough, in Leafpool's Wish, Spottedleaf yelled at Leafpool for getting pregnant, even though Leafpool asked Spottedleaf for advice on what to do, and Spottedleaf just screams at her?? Like?? You barely helped, Spottedleaf, and let her believe that it was okay to see Crowfeather. What makes you think you have the right to yell at her?? i think spottedleaf explained in twilight or something that leafpool needed to experience firsthand for herself where her heart truly lied. by going away with crowfeather and then being introduced with a possibility of a clan filled with injured cats, she is able to experience for herself what is her one and only priority and make the choice that will shape the rest of her life. she needed to see through her own eyes that she values the health of her clanmates over a forbidden relationship. if she was simply given the direct answer to her potential problem (which starclan tries to avoid) then she would be left wondering what would would happen if she did go with crowfeather and if she'd be happier in that scenario. i believe she even said something like "would you have learned anything if i did," referring to how if she just told her how to fix the problem, would she be able to really benefit from this? starclan can't just be there to tell the cats all the shortcuts in life. it also reminds her that she is indeed needed by her clan which she was questioning due to the whole brightheart-learning-herbs-and-replacing-leafpool thing. so yes, spottedleaf did let her believe that it was okay to see crow, as she did not advise otherwise, but letting her work out this dilemma for herself helped her know for sure what she wants more than the other. on the note of her yelling at her for being pregnant, spottedleaf was probably angered and stressed that leafpool had complicated this more than needed all in just one day of being away. if in an alternate scenario where leaf was away for moons then i guess that would've been kinda unfair? but even in that case she still would have to consider the fact that she could be doing something that could potentially disconnect her from the rules that she has been raised with and adhered to most of her life, in case she ever wanted to come back. |
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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Nov 7, 2016 18:19:45 GMT -5
Spottedleaf is essentially a satellite love interest, defined on this page. In brief, a satellite love interest is a character who hardly has any personality or purpose aside from being a love interest, and Spottedleaf fits this trope perfectly. She had little to no characterization aside from her supposed perfection, being whiny, and being in love with someone she barely knew. It's no wonder she's such an unbearable character. |
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Nov 7, 2016 21:03:46 GMT -5
I agree. As of now, she's probably one of the worst written characters, if not the worst. I'm glad that we're getting a novella on her so the Erins could add on to her character. Maybe then, she would be better.
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