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Post by Lightflame on Oct 31, 2016 21:43:52 GMT -5
Okay, I think it's time to pull out my list of predictions for A Vision of Shadows. Obviously there are spoilers for Hawkwing's Journey, so you may want to turn back now.
Darktail's Origins
Let's start out with a big one. Darktail's mysterious past has been built up for three books, so it's got to be a big deal. He seems to be connected to some past villain, although we can rule out Sol (based on Kate confirming he's not involved in the arc) and Dodge (although nobody would have thought Dodge anyway). I think Kate also said that Mapleshade isn't involved, so we can rule her out as well.
Of course, the answer seems to be BloodClan. When asked about a possible return for them, Kate said, "No spoilers!", despite being happy to confirm that characters like Sol wouldn't reappear. BloodClan doesn't explain everything, though, so I'm going to go a bit deeper.
Darktail was a Clan kit, who was somehow lost and left behind when the Clans left on the Great Journey. He would have died, but he was saved by BloodClan remnants, who raised him, alongside the "friend" he mentioned to Hawkwing in Chapter 10. He always hated the Clans for abandoning him, but it wasn't until his friend died and he learned about SkyClan that he united the BloodClan remnants and gathered together other rogues to destroy the Clans. He has a Clan name because he was Darkkit when he was lost, and changed it to Darktail after growing up. This would also create common ground with Needletail and Violetpaw, who were also abandoned, and would make him a foil to them if they can ultimately rise above their issues, and become heroes.
Violetpaw Kills Lilyheart
I don't know about evidence for this, but it's the most dramatic thing that could happen, so I'm hoping it does. Right now, Violetpaw hates Twigpaw, but Twigpaw still wants to help her sister. Their bond is broken, but not severed completely. The fourth and fifth arcs had reconciliations between feuding siblings in their third books, so it would be interesting if instead of them making amends, the sisters' connection is shattered completely. I mean, where would they go from there?
Alderheart Joins SkyClan
I think this one is the most likely. It fits Alderheart's storyline and character arc, and it fits thematically.
Hawkwing's Journey goes out of its way to make sure that SkyClan has no medicine cat. It leaves Frecklewish presumably dead, introduces a new medicine cat only to dramatically write him out, and kills Echosong off. The only reason for getting rid of all these medicine cats so deliberately is that someone is going to be moving to SkyClan. And who else but Alderheart? I was never a believer of the "Alderpaw goes to ShadowClan" theory, but Alderheart going to SkyClan is perfect.
In terms of Alderheart's storyline so far, it's all been centered around SkyClan. In The Apprentice's Quest, he sets out on a quest to SkyClan. In Thunder and Shadow, SkyClan is a major priority for him, and he's upset about not being able to do anything about it. Shattered Sky will presumably be about him bringing SkyClan back to the lake. Since his story is so connected to SkyClan, it makes the most sense for him to join SkyClan, so that they can continue to be important to his plot.
For his character arc, it's also important. Although he only just received his name, it's clear that several steps ahead into his character arc, he will have to be a solo medicine cat, to show that he can now manage on his own. However, he can't be a solo medicine cat without getting rid of Leafpool and Jayfeather. The new team chose not to kill or write off Leafpool in Thunder and Shadow, which suggests that they probably have a way to make Alderheart a solo medicine cat without needing to get rid of her. SkyClan seems like the easy choice.
Finally, it fits thematically, since the arc is about change, but also about restoration. Long ago, when SkyClan was driven from the forest, Cloudstar's mate Birdflight stayed behind with ThunderClan, and had two kits, Gorseclaw and Spottedpelt. Alderheart is descended from both Gorseclaw and Spottedpelt, and with SkyClan's return to the Clans, he joins SkyClan, bringing the blood of Cloudstar back to them. (If Cloudstar happens to be descended from Honey Pelt, this means that Alderheart joining SkyClan also restores one of the scattered petals.)
Also, this way, we could see Hawkwing's eventual nine lives ceremony through Alderheart's eyes, rather than in a Bonus Scene that nobody outside of America will get.
Dovewing/Hawkwing
It's a meme, it's a crack pairing, but I'm down for it. Pebbleshine is gone. That's something Hawkwing will have to face when he reaches the Clans. However, he's also shown himself to be interested in moving on, as demonstrated by his interactions with Plumwillow. I think he deserves to get a chance to raise his own kits, since he Twigpaw and Violetpaw grew up without him. And honestly, who better to help him than Dovewing? She understands loss, and has helped many cats deal with their grief before. She's also very compassionate, and would match up well with the fiery, but responsible Hawkwing. (She has an on-off thing with Tigerheart, but it's never going to work out, and she wants kits when he doesn't.) If Dovewing has to have a relationship this arc, then it might as well be Hawkwing. His relationship with Pebbleshine was also drama-free, which bodes well for the pairing. And if Alderheart is moving to SkyClan, it would be nice for there to be a familiar face to help him adjust.
Violetpaw and Twigpaw are a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
This one is pretty simple. Twigpaw and Violetpaw will become incredibly important to the fate of the Clans, but only because the Clans believed they were the prophecy cats. If Needletail hadn't said they were what was found in the shadows, and ThunderClan had just taken them in, they would have been completely ordinary warriors. I don't know what the prophecy refers to, but it would be a nice touch, since we haven't seen an explicit self-fulfilling prophecy yet.
Anyway, those are my theories. Tell me what you think, and feel free to share your own.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Oct 31, 2016 23:32:33 GMT -5
I can see some of those theories, but some of them, no.
Why would Darktail have a relationship to Bloodclan? There are group we haven't seen in almost four arcs, and they didn't play too much of a role in the arcs they were in. Not to mention we don't even know where they go when they die, so we don't know if there's a sort of spirit advisor thing going on, like with Tigerstar. So I think it's more likely that Darktail has some sort of connection to Sol (because remember, Sol hated Skyclan for exiling him, and was not very friendly to the Clans in general). Sol would be the perfect person to manipulate Darktail into hating the clans, and getting them enough power to make that manifest. And Darktail is shown to have very good powers of manipulation (how he manipulated Hawkwing into not realizing who he was until was too late, almost manipulating Alderheart into believing that he was the real Skyclan, and manipulating Shadowclan into splintering with just a single fight). I wouldn't be surprised if he picked that up from Sol. As for the story he tells, there's no confirmation that that's true, so his past is still a mystery.
I don't think Violetpaw killing Lilyheart is very likely. While it would be very dramatic, Violetpaw still has an attachment to Lilyheart, as shown in the beginning of Thunder and Shadow. I doubt she'd be willing to break the attachment so quickly.
I think Alderheart will go to Skyclan as well, mainly for the reasons you suggested. No argument here.
Dovewing and Hawkwing doesn't seem like it will happen. I know a lot of people think it will, but Pebbleshine isn't confirmed to be dead. The only thing that is confirmed about her is that she had her kits near the gorge. Twigpaw does see a golden cat while she's drowning, but there's no confirmation that that's Pebbleshine. Even if Hawkwing does find another mate, the books seem to be leaning towards pairing Dovewing with Tigerheart, so I doubt Hawkwing will choose her.
The idea of them being a self-fulfilling prophecy would be interesting, but it doesn't make any sense within the Warriors universe. Anyway, why would the plot focus on them if they weren't important?
I like to add a theory of my own, and that's that Skyclan will protect the other clans from something. Think about it. Why would the Erins need them to come back, other than plot convenience? They were perfectly happy in their home, and the other four clans were coexisting just fine as they were. Well, what better reason, than Skyclan needing to come back than helping protect the others from another foe. As for what the other foe is, I have no idea. However, we do know some major characters of the Dark Forest (e.g. Mapleshade) are still alive, and there has been talk about losing faith, so maybe there will be more battles against them, or they will be more successful in corrupting others. The warriors would need more cats to face them, and thus Skyclan returns.
I think Brightspirit and her family will return. She's confirmed to be from Skyclan, and is important to the Erins on a personal level. So I most definitely think we would see more of her. Plus, that would fit with the goal of immortalizing her in the books. As for what she does, maybe she's the cat that convinces the others that Skyclan exists? She's already appeared to cats in the other clans (namely Jayfeather) so it doesn't seem that out of place her to appear again.
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 1, 2016 0:00:54 GMT -5
The ones I disagree with are Alderheart joining SkyClan and Violetpaw killing Lilyheart. I just don't see it happening.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 1, 2016 0:10:41 GMT -5
Darktail being connected to BloodClan is likely tbh, more like plausible. We never got any real history on BloodClan and what happened to it post war with the Forest Clans. Also after the Clans lost there old home, did BloodClan every find out? However, I can't really think of any significant cat from BC that would hold a real grudge against the clans even now. And even if they did, they'd be pretty old wouldn't they?
Violetpaw killing Lilyheart seems more like a moment that would be accidental. I want to see Violet and Twig fight one day, and Lilyheart protects Twig and gets accidentally killed. I mean since ShadowClan got taken over, it's very likely that Darktail will start attacking the other clans at some point. A battle is inevitable.
I've been predicting that Leafpool would either stay in ShadowClan, close enough since she actually did stay there to train the next medicine cat, or that Alderheart would join SkyClan when they return to the lake. There's really nothing stopping him from joining them once they show up, but it's more like he has to realize that SkyClan needs him, that this is where he belongs.
Even if Pebbleshine isn't confirmed dead, the state Violet and Twig were in was horrible. They were skinny and close to death, still drinking off milk. This means that Pebbleshine was probably in no better of a position. She either abandoned her daughters so she herself had a chance of survival, or struggled to take care of them on her own and died trying. Either way it doesn't seem likely her and Hawk will be a thing again, since he's ready to move on. Another thing is that if Pebble really did abandon those kits I doubt Hawk would be so willing to be with her again. I think Dove and Hawk becoming a thing would be a "Fresh" start, and also help populate SkyClan again. They're going to need new members and new kits. This would also settle the drama with Tiger and Bumble.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that I remember one of the Erins saying that Dovewing would be getting a mate probably. And we're already two books in, with implications that FernIvy will be a thing, but nothing with Dovewing. Tigerheart is now deputy, and Dovewing has shown no interest in being with him, let alone going to ShadowClan. While her and Bumble are just friends on speaking terms, in TAS, she and Tiger just aren't getting along and Tiger seems to be more possessive.
I'm still holding out on the possibility that Twig and Violet are not the prophecy cats, and even if they were, they wouldn't be so eager to help the clans.
I agree with the idea of SkyClan protecting the other clans, I personally think it will be against Darktail and his cats. I think its inevitable tbh, since they'll both be by the lake.
My theories? I really....really hope the Erins don't make Violet x Darktail a thing....I feel like it'd end up being RaggedYellow 2.0 but worse. But I think it's obvious that Rain and Needle are going to be a thing regardless. And the possibility of Needletail joining SkyClan, I think it's up there, since she doesn't seem to have much of an attachment to ShadowClan.
It think another major cat will die. Probably Tawnypelt, or Squirrelflight. As much as I like the idea of killing off Leafpool, her death would give Alderheart a reason to stay in ThunderClan and I don't want that.
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 1, 2016 0:17:56 GMT -5
Darktail being connected to BloodClan is likely tbh, more like plausible. We never got any real history on BloodClan and what happened to it post war with the Forest Clans. Also after the Clans lost there old home, did BloodClan every find out? However, I can't really think of any significant cat from BC that would hold a real grudge against the clans even now. And even if they did, they'd be pretty old wouldn't they? Violetpaw killing Lilyheart seems more like a moment that would be accidental. I want to see Violet and Twig fight one day, and Lilyheart protects Twig and gets accidentally killed. I mean since ShadowClan got taken over, it's very likely that Darktail will start attacking the other clans at some point. A battle is inevitable. I've been predicting that Leafpool would either stay in ShadowClan, close enough since she actually did stay there to train the next medicine cat, or that Alderheart would join SkyClan when they return to the lake. There's really nothing stopping him from joining them once they show up, but it's more like he has to realize that SkyClan needs him, that this is where he belongs. Even if Pebbleshine isn't confirmed dead, the state Violet and Twig were in was horrible. They were skinny and close to death, still drinking off milk. This means that Pebbleshine was probably in no better of a position. She either abandoned her daughters so she herself had a chance of survival, or struggled to take care of them on her own and died trying. Either way it doesn't seem likely her and Hawk will be a thing again, since he's ready to move on. Another thing is that if Pebble really did abandon those kits I doubt Hawk would be so willing to be with her again. I think Dove and Hawk becoming a thing would be a "Fresh" start, and also help populate SkyClan again. They're going to need new members and new kits. This would also settle the drama with Tiger and Bumble. Another thing I'd like to point out is that I remember one of the Erins saying that Dovewing would be getting a mate probably. And we're already two books in, with implications that FernIvy will be a thing, but nothing with Dovewing. Tigerheart is now deputy, and Dovewing has shown no interest in being with him, let alone going to ShadowClan. While her and Bumble are just friends on speaking terms, in TAS, she and Tiger just aren't getting along and Tiger seems to be more possessive. I'm still holding out on the possibility that Twig and Violet are not the prophecy cats, and even if they were, they wouldn't be so eager to help the clans. I agree with the idea of SkyClan protecting the other clans, I personally think it will be against Darktail and his cats. I think its inevitable tbh, since they'll both be by the lake. My theories? I really....really hope the Erins don't make Violet x Darktail a thing....I feel like it'd end up being RaggedYellow 2.0 but worse. But I think it's obvious that Rain and Needle are going to be a thing regardless. And the possibility of Needletail joining SkyClan, I think it's up there, since she doesn't seem to have much of an attachment to ShadowClan. It think another major cat will die. Probably Tawnypelt, or Squirrelflight. As much as I like the idea of killing off Leafpool, her death would give Alderheart a reason to stay in ThunderClan and I don't want that. My theory always was that Needle and Alder found the kits while the mother was on search for food. And I don't think that just because he seemed to move on, that he won't get together with his mate if she is alive and will show up. To me the whole DoveXHawk thing is incredibly dumb. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 1, 2016 2:19:10 GMT -5
Darktail being connected to BloodClan is likely tbh, more like plausible. We never got any real history on BloodClan and what happened to it post war with the Forest Clans. Also after the Clans lost there old home, did BloodClan every find out? However, I can't really think of any significant cat from BC that would hold a real grudge against the clans even now. And even if they did, they'd be pretty old wouldn't they? Violetpaw killing Lilyheart seems more like a moment that would be accidental. I want to see Violet and Twig fight one day, and Lilyheart protects Twig and gets accidentally killed. I mean since ShadowClan got taken over, it's very likely that Darktail will start attacking the other clans at some point. A battle is inevitable. I've been predicting that Leafpool would either stay in ShadowClan, close enough since she actually did stay there to train the next medicine cat, or that Alderheart would join SkyClan when they return to the lake. There's really nothing stopping him from joining them once they show up, but it's more like he has to realize that SkyClan needs him, that this is where he belongs. Even if Pebbleshine isn't confirmed dead, the state Violet and Twig were in was horrible. They were skinny and close to death, still drinking off milk. This means that Pebbleshine was probably in no better of a position. She either abandoned her daughters so she herself had a chance of survival, or struggled to take care of them on her own and died trying. Either way it doesn't seem likely her and Hawk will be a thing again, since he's ready to move on. Another thing is that if Pebble really did abandon those kits I doubt Hawk would be so willing to be with her again. I think Dove and Hawk becoming a thing would be a "Fresh" start, and also help populate SkyClan again. They're going to need new members and new kits. This would also settle the drama with Tiger and Bumble. Another thing I'd like to point out is that I remember one of the Erins saying that Dovewing would be getting a mate probably. And we're already two books in, with implications that FernIvy will be a thing, but nothing with Dovewing. Tigerheart is now deputy, and Dovewing has shown no interest in being with him, let alone going to ShadowClan. While her and Bumble are just friends on speaking terms, in TAS, she and Tiger just aren't getting along and Tiger seems to be more possessive. I'm still holding out on the possibility that Twig and Violet are not the prophecy cats, and even if they were, they wouldn't be so eager to help the clans. I agree with the idea of SkyClan protecting the other clans, I personally think it will be against Darktail and his cats. I think its inevitable tbh, since they'll both be by the lake. My theories? I really....really hope the Erins don't make Violet x Darktail a thing....I feel like it'd end up being RaggedYellow 2.0 but worse. But I think it's obvious that Rain and Needle are going to be a thing regardless. And the possibility of Needletail joining SkyClan, I think it's up there, since she doesn't seem to have much of an attachment to ShadowClan. It think another major cat will die. Probably Tawnypelt, or Squirrelflight. As much as I like the idea of killing off Leafpool, her death would give Alderheart a reason to stay in ThunderClan and I don't want that. My theory always was that Needle and Alder found the kits while the mother was on search for food. And I don't think that just because he seemed to move on, that he won't get together with his mate if she is alive and will show up. To me the whole DoveXHawk thing is incredibly dumb. Like I said, given the states of the kits, she must have taken quite a while if she apparently went hunting. For one, as Needle noted, they were still surviving on milk, so they had to try and make them eat at least something, even if it's blood from prey. They were also really thin, and shivering, they weren't going to make it much longer if not for them showing up when they did. By that alone we know that Pebbleshine left them when they were still incredibly young, and since they were really skinny, this can mean she wasn't feeding them properly, or she was gone for a really long time for them to get in that state in the first place. To me the theory that she went out hunting doesn't fit, unless she herself decided to stay with them and starved herself until she got the courage to leave and hunt. But this wouldn't explain why the kits are still skinny when they're still surviving off of milk, milk that can be produced by Pebbleshine. Another thing is that Needletail easily, and quickly, caught prey to help feed the kits, meaning that there is prey nearby, and Pebbleshine wouldn't have had to go too far to find any. The only real explanations are: A) She died not long after giving birth to the kits, maybe on the Thunderpath
2) She got in an accident, hence the "drowning" Hawk envisioned, and she died or got lost
3) She abandoned the kits in order for herself to have a surviving chance Given these three explanations, Hawk and Pebble being a thing again is just as possible as Dove and him being a thing tbh. Two possibilities result in her death, and the other is just...pretty messed up, I doubt he'd want to get back with her if she abandoned their kits. The only slim chance is that she was injured somewhere, survived, and made it to the lake like Hawk did. But even then, who's to say Hawk doesn't already have a mate by then? Even if it's not Dovewing. |
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 1, 2016 2:27:43 GMT -5
My theory always was that Needle and Alder found the kits while the mother was on search for food. And I don't think that just because he seemed to move on, that he won't get together with his mate if she is alive and will show up. To me the whole DoveXHawk thing is incredibly dumb. Like I said, given the states of the kits, she must have taken quite a while if she apparently went hunting. For one, as Needle noted, they were still surviving on milk, so they had to try and make them eat at least something, even if it's blood from prey. They were also really thin, and shivering, they weren't going to make it much longer if not for them showing up when they did. By that alone we know that Pebbleshine left them when they were still incredibly young, and since they were really skinny, this can mean she wasn't feeding them properly, or she was gone for a really long time for them to get in that state in the first place. To me the theory that she went out hunting doesn't fit, unless she herself decided to stay with them and starved herself until she got the courage to leave and hunt. But this wouldn't explain why the kits are still skinny when they're still surviving off of milk, milk that can be produced by Pebbleshine. Another thing is that Needletail easily, and quickly, caught prey to help feed the kits, meaning that there is prey nearby, and Pebbleshine wouldn't have had to go too far to find any. The only real explanations are: A) She died not long after giving birth to the kits, maybe on the Thunderpath
2) She got in an accident, hence the "drowning" Hawk envisioned, and she died or got lost
3) She abandoned the kits in order for herself to have a surviving chance Given these three explanations, Hawk and Pebble being a thing again is just as possible as Dove and him being a thing tbh. Two possibilities result in her death, and the other is just...pretty messed up, I doubt he'd want to get back with her if she abandoned their kits. The only slim chance is that she was injured somewhere, survived, and made it to the lake like Hawk did. But even then, who's to say Hawk doesn't already have a mate by then? Even if it's not Dovewing. Im siding with 1 or 2 |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 1, 2016 4:41:11 GMT -5
Like I said, given the states of the kits, she must have taken quite a while if she apparently went hunting. For one, as Needle noted, they were still surviving on milk, so they had to try and make them eat at least something, even if it's blood from prey. They were also really thin, and shivering, they weren't going to make it much longer if not for them showing up when they did. By that alone we know that Pebbleshine left them when they were still incredibly young, and since they were really skinny, this can mean she wasn't feeding them properly, or she was gone for a really long time for them to get in that state in the first place. To me the theory that she went out hunting doesn't fit, unless she herself decided to stay with them and starved herself until she got the courage to leave and hunt. But this wouldn't explain why the kits are still skinny when they're still surviving off of milk, milk that can be produced by Pebbleshine. Another thing is that Needletail easily, and quickly, caught prey to help feed the kits, meaning that there is prey nearby, and Pebbleshine wouldn't have had to go too far to find any. The only real explanations are: A) She died not long after giving birth to the kits, maybe on the Thunderpath
2) She got in an accident, hence the "drowning" Hawk envisioned, and she died or got lost
3) She abandoned the kits in order for herself to have a surviving chance Given these three explanations, Hawk and Pebble being a thing again is just as possible as Dove and him being a thing tbh. Two possibilities result in her death, and the other is just...pretty messed up, I doubt he'd want to get back with her if she abandoned their kits. The only slim chance is that she was injured somewhere, survived, and made it to the lake like Hawk did. But even then, who's to say Hawk doesn't already have a mate by then? Even if it's not Dovewing. Im siding with 1 or 2 Lol, I said A instead of 1. But yeah, it seems quite likely that she's died already, which is honestly a bit sad, considering in TAS the kits were trying or at least planning to look for her. I feel like they wouldn't be abandoned, so I also agree with either 1 or 2. That she probably got injured and lost, or the more likely hood that she's dead. Maybe drowning from trying to find help? Maybe she was searching for the others? |
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Post by pastelpills on Nov 1, 2016 6:21:56 GMT -5
Lol, I said A instead of 1. But yeah, it seems quite likely that she's died already, which is honestly a bit sad, considering in TAS the kits were trying or at least planning to look for her. I feel like they wouldn't be abandoned, so I also agree with either 1 or 2. That she probably got injured and lost, or the more likely hood that she's dead. Maybe drowning from trying to find help? Maybe she was searching for the others? I might be wrong but I think that Alderpaw mentioned that he smelled fox by the thunderpath. |
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Post by *Faith* on Nov 1, 2016 14:30:46 GMT -5
Interesting theories. Here are my thoughts:
1. I don't really want to see BloodClan again. Hopefully Darktail isn't connected to them. But that's just me.
2. No...just no. I cannot see this happening. And I don't think the sisters will fight each other anyways. They'd probably help each other.
3. Hm, maybe. But I'm not sure. I can kind of see Violetpaw going to live with SkyClan, since I don't think she'll ever be happy in ShadowClan.
4. Well I do want Dovewing to become mates with a SkyClan cat. But I'm not sure she'll ever leave her sister behind.
5. Maybe, but who knows for sure.
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Post by Pyropelt on Nov 1, 2016 17:15:03 GMT -5
Those are good predictions Lightflame!
Some things that I think would be cool to see are:
• Hawkwing being able to see Twigpaw and Violetpaw, even maybe if nothing happens with that plot. I would really like for him to at least know that they're his kits.
• Dovewing x Hawkwing. To be honest, I don't like Pebbleshine, or the whole thing about how hating each other turns to friendship, then love. I think it will be interesting if Dovewing and Hawkwing got together.
• I hope that SkyClan will come to the lake, and that if they did they wouldn't be driven out again. I think they could be good for the Clans. Maybe even help with what Clear Sky, Cloudstar, and Brackenheart were saying about the prophecy. Though, if the Clans do try to see what Violetpaw and Twigpaw have to do with the prophecy, that they don't put unrealistic pressure on them too bad.
I think if SkyClan were to move back, that it would be cool if the Twolegs moved away and then SkyClan could settle in between ThunderClan and ShadowClan. I doubt it will happen, but still is what I would like to see.
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