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Post by vanished on Oct 25, 2016 11:44:53 GMT -5
i never said Clinton wasn't racist. I'm sure as hell she is. but to say "Clinton's racist af and Trump has never said anything like that in his Whole Entire Pure and Good Life" buddy do i have some news for u reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4r2yxs/a_final_response_to_the_tell_me_why_trump_is/?client=safari no I'm not saying Trump is completely innocent, I'm saying that they're both racist, so pulling the "he's racist" card is irrelevant. it's.... not irrelevant... considering the fact.. that a good portion of his campaign was built on racism and that a good majority of his supporters agree with his xenophobic/racist views...............
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:45:02 GMT -5
No I totally agree with you that we shouldn't vote just because someone is popular. I'm just saying that if someone votes third party because they think that person would make a better president than one of the majorities, I really don't see the problem. Or if you feel morally wrong voting for either Trump or Hillary, then voting third party is a suitable option. But building a wall isn't really a bad thing? Because there are tons of people waltzing through the border every day and nothing is done about it. Illegal immigrants are allowed to stay here with no repercussions. When you break the law, there are consequences, but why is it that illegals don't get that? I haven't heard about the apartment thing but I didn't watch the debates because it's usually the candidates just spouting insults at each other xD And he in fact doesn't want to deport all immigrants. Just the illegal ones. And he wants to make the system for becoming a citizen and getting int he country legally more sound. Because with all of the terrorist activity, we need to keep our country safe. What do you mean about the non-whites and the police? The small handful of cases where that happens is nothing. Of course there are going to be corrupt cops. You can't avoid that, unfortunately. But a lot of the cases where cops were supposedly "corrupt" were actually not the case. A lot of the cases were them actually trying to apprehend a criminal, not an innocent non-white. So as far as that, I don't really even see an issue there. Is that what you meant or was I interpreting that incorrectly? Both candidates have a lot of dirt, but to say one is racist and the other isn't while both of them has said racist things isn't correct. no you're fine I totally get that. It's good that you're passionate about it! Shows that you want to do something to make the world better and that's a good thing. Too many people are not doing anything. I just happen to think Hillary will make it worse than Trump. ok but in regards to the immigration thing: he wants to build a wall, but he wants to make immigration easier? so which is it?? wouldn't only one of those things be necessary w/o the other?? I never said easier I said more sound. Like background checks and more research to make sure that the people entering the country are safe while also making it harder for illegal immigrants to enter, if that makes sense?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:46:25 GMT -5
no I'm not saying Trump is completely innocent, I'm saying that they're both racist, so pulling the "he's racist" card is irrelevant. it's.... not irrelevant... considering the fact.. that a good portion of his campaign was built on racism and that a good majority of his supporters agree with his xenophobic/racist views............... what part of the campaign was built on racism tho? And what has he said that's xenophobic? Because I may have an idea of what you are talking about but I know that it's not xenophobic...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:46:52 GMT -5
ok but in regards to the immigration thing: he wants to build a wall, but he wants to make immigration easier? so which is it?? wouldn't only one of those things be necessary w/o the other?? I'm not even saying if I agree with disagree with building a wall. The wall is to keep out illegal immigration. Which is a great concept because it negatively impacts all of us. Including immigrants who put in the effort to go through the actual process to earn citizenship. If Trump has that goal in mind, he's probably talking about the tremendous amount of administrative crap that drags down the system and wastes time and money and resources. But that happens in like....everything ever involved with the government. How anyone can fix that is beyond me, I'd always take any "promises" of change and hope and prosperity a politician makes and frankly just....not believe it.
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 11:50:53 GMT -5
@spottedstar3137 I know and I respect your opinion which is why i didn't want to get into a huge argument about it. I don't want to make people angry either.
You do have some very valid points and I'll do more research on them when I can on... Thursday because I do need to become more educated on both sides. But I feel there's a difference between a Cyber attack and cyber bullying. Bullying is the whole "kill yourself" thing, where you are bullying someone because you can or you have a twisted reason for doing so (general you and specified) while a Cyber Attack has to do more with hacking and trying to get information or interrupt processes and events. Like the DDOS(I think that's what they were) attacks recently on social media or the constant attacks from other countries on each other and us. Warfare seems to have evolved from not just physical fighting to cyber attacks and people trying to hack and get important information from the US.
And I also personally think we should treat Cyber Bullying with police and stuff bc nobody should tell another person to "kill themselves" and it is a criminal offense. But anyways I understand what you are saying.
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Post by greene on Oct 25, 2016 11:50:59 GMT -5
i never said Clinton wasn't racist. I'm sure as hell she is. but to say "Clinton's racist af and Trump has never said anything like that in his Whole Entire Pure and Good Life" buddy do i have some news for u reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4r2yxs/a_final_response_to_the_tell_me_why_trump_is/?client=safari no I'm not saying Trump is completely innocent, I'm saying that they're both racist, so pulling the "he's racist" card is irrelevant. "What has Trump said that is racist?" and "I have not heard him say one racist thing" is a hella wrong way to make that point then, my dude
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 11:52:53 GMT -5
Okay guys let's get back to the topic at hand, Third Party Voting. We can discuss all we want on the two candidates but please don't do it on my thread, Do it in PM or make a different thread.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:55:11 GMT -5
Okay guys let's get back to the topic at hand, Third Party Voting. We can discuss all we want on the two candidates but please don't do it on my thread, Do it in PM or make a different thread. Roger that Mr. OP, sorry that dragged so far off course. Since I already threw my views in there, have you ever watched one of Johnson's commercials? Even if you don't vote for him the commercials are pretty funny.
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Post by greene on Oct 25, 2016 11:55:40 GMT -5
Okay guys let's get back to the topic at hand, Third Party Voting. We can discuss all we want on the two candidates but please don't do it on my thread, Do it in PM or make a different thread. lol my b I'll knock it off
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:56:30 GMT -5
@spottedstar3137 I know and I respect your opinion which is why i didn't want to get into a huge argument about it. I don't want to make people angry either. You do have some very valid points and I'll do more research on them when I can on... Thursday because I do need to become more educated on both sides. But I feel there's a difference between a Cyber attack and cyber bullying. Bullying is the whole "kill yourself" thing, where you are bullying someone because you can or you have a twisted reason for doing so (general you and specified) while a Cyber Attack has to do more with hacking and trying to get information or interrupt processes and events. Like the DDOS(I think that's what they were) attacks recently on social media or the constant attacks from other countries on each other and us. Warfare seems to have evolved from not just physical fighting to cyber attacks and people trying to hack and get important information from the US. And I also personally think we should treat Cyber Bullying with police and stuff bc nobody should tell another person to "kill themselves" and it is a criminal offense. But anyways I understand what you are saying. And I totally respect your opinion too. I really appreciate that you haven't started yelling, as things usually turn out that way haha. I don't like Trump either I just personally think Hillary is worse. Ahh okay that makes much more sense thank you! I agree, cyber bullying is awful, but if someone just makes an offhand comment like that, I don't think it should be taken to personally. If it's consistent, then I see where police should get involved, but having one person say something bad like that isn't imo, a call for police. If someone is getting consistently bullied, then yes I totally agree we should have the police intervene. I mean technically telling someone to do that doesn't actually make them do so. I agree it's an awful thing to say, but having offhand comments isn't necessarily criminal unless it's a threat. But yeah I see what you mean and agree that threats should be taken seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 11:58:56 GMT -5
no I'm not saying Trump is completely innocent, I'm saying that they're both racist, so pulling the "he's racist" card is irrelevant. "What has Trump said that is racist?" and "I have not heard him say one racist thing" is a hella wrong way to make that point then, my dude That's because I didn't know about the apartment thing that was brought up, I hadn't actually heard him say anything racist before than. okay agreed op, sorry we got off topic. I do like to hear other's views and find it an interesting learning experience. So yes back on topic my bad haha. But yes I think third party voting should personally be more considered? I honestly think parties are awful to begin with, it just segregates everyone and people vote for one person because they're part of their party
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 11:59:05 GMT -5
It's okay it was my fault too.
But no I haven't I'll look some up after I finish my math homework.
and Guys I do understand what you are saying about the whole "both candidates are equally as bad" in your opinions. I respect your opinions and I really really wish the system worked in favor of third party voting and I want to see how we can all change it. But also as I said before it isn't going to change before the election.
and I apologize for my rude wording. I shouldn't say that voting third party is throwing your vote away so I apologize for using that wording I'll go change that on the front page.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 12:01:58 GMT -5
I totally agree with you! Really wish there was something that could be changed about the system, but yeah for this election it's not gonna work haha no you're totally fine! You're just passionate about the subject and that's really good
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 12:20:23 GMT -5
Honestly omni I wasn't completely disagreeing with you about third party voting. I guess it just sucks that rather than arguing about which candidate is better, we have to argue about which one is the not worst one. It's literally taking any kind of high standards we may have once had and chainsawing it to pieces. It's why I'm still considering third party, but I still have yet to make a decision. I just skipped that part for now and went to admendments and whatnot. But one vote really doesn't make a difference. A bunch of votes will be miscounted by the counting machines anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 12:49:50 GMT -5
i actually thought that voting 3rd party was a god idea for a little bit, but after looking into the candidates, no thanks gary johnson's foreign policies are basically "eh we'll deal with it when it becomes a problem" and isnt very informed about things. jill stein doesnt have enough of a campaign (along with the other candidates) to win the election i'm letting my dad vote for gary johnson because he's a republican and he really doesnt want to vote trump, but cant vote hillary. that's fine with me. but, we need to join together and vote for the lesser of two evils
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 14:22:44 GMT -5
Honestly omni I wasn't completely disagreeing with you about third party voting. I guess it just sucks that rather than arguing about which candidate is better, we have to argue about which one is the not worst one. It's literally taking any kind of high standards we may have once had and chainsawing it to pieces. It's why I'm still considering third party, but I still have yet to make a decision. I just skipped that part for now and went to admendments and whatnot. But one vote really doesn't make a difference. A bunch of votes will be miscounted by the counting machines anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ With that mentality nothing is ever going to get changed. The reason Third Party voting is a good idea is because it let's your voice be heard. But unfortunatley just hearing your voice isn't going to change anything. Sitting back and going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nothing I can do about it doesn't help. We need to be active and loud and show everyone that we WANT to make a difference and the system isn't allowing it. Complaining about it but saying that we can't do anything just makes things worse. We need to think of ways to better the system because one day the world is going to belong to us and we need to start shaping it into what we want it to be now. Otherwise we're gonna get it and it's gonna be a mess and our children are gonna have to deal with it, or worse it will collapse before it even gets to our children. We can't rely on the older generations to fix their own mistakes because they aren't going to. We need to plan and think of ways to fix it ourselves so that way we can change it by the time we own the world. And I hope you guys know that my opinions on the matter of third party voting vary heavily. Some of what i've said probably sounds hypocritical but I just have so many thoughts on the subject and I can't figure out what I really feel about except that it isn't going to work on this election.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 25, 2016 16:02:29 GMT -5
all i know is that my trust for either clinton or trump is 0%. i have no faith in them at all.
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Post by Yoshimi on Oct 25, 2016 16:12:28 GMT -5
In this case, I'm withholding my vote. Both aren't fit for office.
I'm also tired of hearing "I'm voting for X because they're the lesser of 2 evils".... If you are basing your vote on that, why even vote? If you honestly don't think either candidates are good choices, why vote for one?
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 16:23:17 GMT -5
In this case, I'm withholding my vote. Both aren't fit for office. I'm also tired of hearing "I'm voting for X because they're the lesser of 2 evils".... If you are basing your vote on that, why even vote? If you honestly don't think either candidates are good choices, why vote for one? I think it's because since one is a worse evil we should still try to not let the worst of the evils in office, but you are right neither of them are good or ideal choices but there isn't much choice we have this late in the campaign.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 17:20:23 GMT -5
With that mentality nothing is ever going to get changed. The reason Third Party voting is a good idea is because it let's your voice be heard. But unfortunatley just hearing your voice isn't going to change anything. Sitting back and going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nothing I can do about it doesn't help. We need to be active and loud and show everyone that we WANT to make a difference and the system isn't allowing it. Complaining about it but saying that we can't do anything just makes things worse. We need to think of ways to better the system because one day the world is going to belong to us and we need to start shaping it into what we want it to be now. Otherwise we're gonna get it and it's gonna be a mess and our children are gonna have to deal with it, or worse it will collapse before it even gets to our children. We can't rely on the older generations to fix their own mistakes because they aren't going to. We need to plan and think of ways to fix it ourselves so that way we can change it by the time we own the world. And I hope you guys know that my opinions on the matter of third party voting vary heavily. Some of what i've said probably sounds hypocritical but I just have so many thoughts on the subject and I can't figure out what I really feel about except that it isn't going to work on this election. Sorry if my pessimism shows here, but I think it's already pretty obvious. But being "active and loud" provides a lot of people a false sense of importance, in my opinion. There are ways to make a difference, but it takes time and strategy. I feel a need to defend myself even though I know that you (especially you) don't mean anything like that. But I feel like I do more than complain and shrug my shoulders and give up, and I still think it doesn't make any kind of difference. I've asked myself, what would I change if I just could, and I'm not an expert but I think all the problems that I think of cannot, will not, and will never be fixed. We can vomit crap down on paper and make laws, amendments, regulations, new rights, whatever. But what's written and what's applied are 100% two difference things. And it's just how it is. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, I'm saying in the end, one person can't make a difference, one person doesn't have enough weight, which is both good and bad. When you paint a grand image of "our generation" coming together to solve problems and get to a better place, I literally shake my head and sigh. Not at you, but at the fact it just won't happen. We can make #movements, or go throw stuff in the streets, or those who have the time and money can go attend some big march in DC. And then we can tell ourselves we get an A for effort, but in the end it won't really make a difference. And in those rare cases a difference is made, or even more rarely, if a positive difference is made, it's more than likely that the next few decades will see that backwards progress is made. The only winning there is in the system is money and power for individuals.
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 17:44:08 GMT -5
Yeah I understand completely, I'm just really tired of my own pessimism bringing me down and I just have to try and do something to make things better. I don't know if what I do will ever make a difference but it doesn't hurt to try... right?
I didn't mean anything like that so I do apologize if I made is seem as if i was talking to you specifically about the whole shrugging shoulders thing. I took what you said and went off on a tangent not directed at you. But you do have some very good and valid points.
The world has just become so complicated these days and so set in it's ways its going to be very hard to change it. But I personally don't think it is impossible. I just wish I knew what to do to help.
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Oct 25, 2016 17:50:53 GMT -5
Just a question, it may be a bit off topic though. How should I vote if I don't like any of the candidates running and can't find (hardly) anything in their policies that I agree with? Sure, tossing my vote third party could work, but they usually get funding depending on the amount of votes they receive. I don't want to vote for anyone at this point, so-- say it's best I skip this election.
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Post by shortstop on Oct 25, 2016 17:50:59 GMT -5
I'm not even saying if I agree with disagree with building a wall. The wall is to keep out illegal immigration. Which is a great concept because it negatively impacts all of us. Including immigrants who put in the effort to go through the actual process to earn citizenship. as the daughter of a legal immigrant ty ty ty also, on my opinion- yes, the system should be fixed, but it's so hard, mainly i think because of the 15% poll rating to get into the presidential debate. that's waaay too high. but the thing is, if we want to fix the system, voting for one of the two main candidates who the system works perfectly fine for aren't going to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 18:09:58 GMT -5
while i will probably never vote third party due to the issues with our bipartisan system re: third parties, i don't mind if others do.
hell, i just want people to go out and vote.
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Post by ehela on Oct 25, 2016 18:29:24 GMT -5
ok but in regards to the immigration thing: he wants to build a wall, but he wants to make immigration easier? so which is it?? wouldn't only one of those things be necessary w/o the other?? I'm not even saying if I agree with disagree with building a wall. The wall is to keep out illegal immigration. Which is a great concept because it negatively impacts all of us. Including immigrants who put in the effort to go through the actual process to earn citizenship. If Trump has that goal in mind, he's probably talking about the tremendous amount of administrative crap that drags down the system and wastes time and money and resources. But that happens in like....everything ever involved with the government. How anyone can fix that is beyond me, I'd always take any "promises" of change and hope and prosperity a politician makes and frankly just....not believe it. You act as if this wall is gonna appear out of nowhere once he wins Its gonna take so much money, which could possibly raise taxes bc all of our tax money is already being wasted Say it does get made, ppl have to watch the wall, more money And what if they come from under? Yall gonna set up a brigade under the ground too? As if a wall will stop someone if they really wanted to get in lol And to say that he's gonna make Mexico pay for it too is hilarious, what he gonna do, force a country? Sure the USA is a super power but holy trying to make Mexico pay is gonna cause some global/international complication And I'd like to say that illegal immigrants help the us economy a lot, they pay payroll taxes and do jobs for cheap so businesses profit and if we're really gonna deport them all or whatever yall gotta look at the repercussions bc to say that these ppl have a 100% negative effect on the us is a bit ignorant imo I'm not for or against illegal immigration since I don't have a stance on it, but this whole wall this is trash If anyone wants to talk to have a mature discussion with me about this pm me
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Oct 25, 2016 18:30:18 GMT -5
Just a question, it may be a bit off topic though. How should I vote if I don't like any of the candidates running and can't find (hardly) anything in their policies that I agree with? Sure, tossing my vote third party could work, but they usually get funding depending on the amount of votes they receive. I don't want to vote for anyone at this point, so-- say it's best I skip this election. Very good question.... I'm not sure. I'd say vote Hillary but since she doesn't align with your personal views I don't want to bully you into doing something you dont' want to do nor agree with, which kinda disagrees with this whole thread I've created but I am a terrible person who changes my mind a lot. But I don't want you to not vote because voting is important even if it's just to get you used to doing it. So in your case I say vote for whoever you want. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 18:35:40 GMT -5
I'm not even saying if I agree with disagree with building a wall. The wall is to keep out illegal immigration. Which is a great concept because it negatively impacts all of us. Including immigrants who put in the effort to go through the actual process to earn citizenship. If Trump has that goal in mind, he's probably talking about the tremendous amount of administrative crap that drags down the system and wastes time and money and resources. But that happens in like....everything ever involved with the government. How anyone can fix that is beyond me, I'd always take any "promises" of change and hope and prosperity a politician makes and frankly just....not believe it. You act as if this wall is gonna appear out of nowhere once he wins Its gonna take so much money, which could possibly raise taxes bc all of our tax money is already being wasted Say it does get made, ppl have to watch the wall, more money And what if they come from under? Yall gonna set up a brigade under the ground too? As if a wall will stop someone if they really wanted to get in lol And to say that he's gonna make Mexico pay for it too is hilarious, what he gonna do, force a country? Sure the USA is a super power but holy trying to make Mexico pay is gonna cause some global/international complication And I'd like to say that illegal immigrants help the us economy a lot, they pay payroll taxes and do jobs for cheap so businesses profit and if we're really gonna deport them all or whatever yall gotta look at the repercussions I'm not for or against illegal immigration since I don't have a stance on it, but this whole wall this is trash If anyone wants to talk to have a mature discussion with me about this pm me Who is "ya'll?" Don't make assumptions on my beliefs from that post. I never said a wall will appear out of nowhere. Nor did I hint that I support or not support Trump. That's my interpretation of him and his stance. Take it or leave it. Our discussion has been completely fine up to this point. He did mention he would make Mexico pay. I'd love to hear his plan for that as well. As for employers illegally taking in illegal immigrants under the radar and paying them dirt cheap and not having any reason to give them benefits or means for decent living, that effects everyone else trying to get a job. They don't pay taxes, and they invalidate all the tremendous amount of work immigrants put in. Find a quote from me saying anything about my political stances and get back to me. Thanks.
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Post by argyle lechuga on Oct 25, 2016 18:38:26 GMT -5
this is the Most Beautiful Thread on the entirety of wcrpf
i would add my own multi paragraph response to. The whole "we need to not be a third party system !" thing but to sum it up it is better to have two parties that reflect the views of the majority than multi parties that reflect the views of a few. put system is a lot more multi party than you would think. we have primaries for a reason and probably one of the fourish main nominees from each of the two parties accidentally reflect ur views and u can vote for that person in the primary. think of it as highschool vote for homecoming. a poll is taken from either the whole student body or a large number, which is then narrowed down to a few students that had the most votes and the winner is voted on among those.
America has been a two party system since about 1840. ur protest vote isn't going to change that. you'd probably respond to this with something like "but everyone has to protest vote so that their can be multi parties !!" but no one wants to bc for a lot of ppl a main party candidate does reflect a lot of their views.
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Post by ehela on Oct 25, 2016 18:56:17 GMT -5
You act as if this wall is gonna appear out of nowhere once he wins Its gonna take so much money, which could possibly raise taxes bc all of our tax money is already being wasted Say it does get made, ppl have to watch the wall, more money And what if they come from under? Yall gonna set up a brigade under the ground too? As if a wall will stop someone if they really wanted to get in lol And to say that he's gonna make Mexico pay for it too is hilarious, what he gonna do, force a country? Sure the USA is a super power but holy trying to make Mexico pay is gonna cause some global/international complication And I'd like to say that illegal immigrants help the us economy a lot, they pay payroll taxes and do jobs for cheap so businesses profit and if we're really gonna deport them all or whatever yall gotta look at the repercussions I'm not for or against illegal immigration since I don't have a stance on it, but this whole wall this is trash If anyone wants to talk to have a mature discussion with me about this pm me Who is "ya'll?" Don't make assumptions on my beliefs from that post. I never said a wall will appear out of nowhere. Nor did I hint that I support or not support Trump. That's my interpretation of him and his stance. Take it or leave it. Our discussion has been completely fine up to this point. He did mention he would make Mexico pay. I'd love to hear his plan for that as well. As for employers illegally taking in illegal immigrants under the radar and paying them dirt cheap and not having any reason to give them benefits or means for decent living, that effects everyone else trying to get a job. They don't pay taxes, and they invalidate all the tremendous amount of work immigrants put in. Find a quote from me saying anything about my political stances and get back to me. Thanks. I believe the only part of where I talked to you directly wad the first stance, I do have the ability to comprehend things and I know that you said you don't have a stance, this was just a quick lil rant on the subject you mentioned, that's why I quoted you I typically use yall as a general term for those in favor of the wall and you didn't state you were so don't take it personally, my bad Perhaps it was a mistake in quoting you and making you feel singled you out or whatever, next time I'll make it clear with bold letters or something that it isn't directed towards you I agree, It does affect everyone and even the workers themselves, but they do pay payroll tax(and they don't get the benefits either), as I said before; there are numerous articles where you can read about it. They don't pay federal tax which is still not good but it's not like they put absolutely no money into the govt If Trump gets elected he has to realize this waLL isnt going to be any help without immigration reform due to the broken system, maybe if he had a plausible idea for that, it wouldnt be so bad and just maybe a wall wouldn't even be necessary for him
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 19:23:26 GMT -5
ehela Oh, if that's the case I'm sorry. That's partially why I've detached myself from it all, there's a lot of people out there who make assumptions way too quickly. That's why I jumped so quickly to defend myself, I feel like that's what I'm doing 90% of the time. From family and like, everyone else. I love having debates about stuff like this, but the way this election has degraded, it's hard to have a civil debate.
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