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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 13:12:28 GMT -5
I feel like Leafpool got everything back much easier than Squirrelflight did. Leafpool has been forgiven by the Three and even got her job back. Squirrelflight had to work harder to earn the Clan's trust and Bramblestar didn't go back to her until Bramblestar's Storm. And here is Squirrelflight, who lost two of her actual kits, while Leafpool only lost one and has perfectly healthy sons. Did the Three ever actually properly forgive Squirrelflight? I don't think they contacted each other much after they've forgiven Leafpool. It's a shame, really, after everything Squirrelflight has done for them. Everyone just goes back to Leafpool.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 13:13:31 GMT -5
The only one who might have tried to talk to Squirrelflight was Hollyleaf. And she's gone now.
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Post by pastelpills on Oct 8, 2016 13:23:05 GMT -5
Idk I think being warrior was punishment enough.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 8, 2016 13:39:54 GMT -5
Jayfeather and Lionblaze did technically forgive Squirrelflight, though, or at the very least decided to move on from the past. They were definitely less harsh towards then over time and were finally talked things out in The Last Hope.
I wouldn't say Leafpool got everything back, though. It's obvious Crowfeather still loves her, but she still can't be with him until they both die. And it seems like neither Jayfeather or Lionblaze ever really saw Leafpool as their mother, they just acknowledge that she gave birth to them and made amends. That title belonged to Squirrelflight, and even Ferncloud and Daisy.
I can see where the argument comes from, but I somewhat disagree that Leafpool got everything back easily.
In fact, the same argument could be used for Squirrelflight and has: it took a long time for Bramblestar to forgive her and now they're mates again with two kits, one of which is already a warrior and the other is a medicine cat, though the other two died. She's the deputy of the Clan and still has a good relationship with her foster kits and still sees them as her own.
My point is, I personally don't think either sister everything back, let alone so easily. It took an entire arc for both cats to regain respect from the Clan, especially from certain cats, but both are now happy with their lives.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 14:10:55 GMT -5
no, i say squirrelflight got everything back easier. why did she need bramblestar back anyways? made no sense why they even got back together. made no sense how shes magically suddenly able to have her own kits. so whatever. i still hate squirrelflight more.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 8, 2016 14:24:36 GMT -5
no, i say squirrelflight got everything back easier. why did she need bramblestar back anyways? made no sense why they even got back together. made no sense how shes magically suddenly able to have her own kits. so whatever. i still hate squirrelflight more. I wouldn't say her having kits is all that sudden though. Just pointing out the facts here, but it was never really confirmed or denied by the Erins that Squirrelflight was barren, only that she might've been. Yellowfang told Squirrelflight that she was unable to have kits, but that was a lie and this was also subtly implied in Leafpool's Wish too when Yellowfang stayed silent after Leafpool asked her if it were true and the fact that it's been stated that StarClan were willing to do anything to make sure that the Three followed their destiny.
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Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Oct 8, 2016 14:38:17 GMT -5
Yeah, but let's look at this relatively:
Squirrelflight: Earned back her relationship, respect from the clan, forgiveness from Lionblaze and Jayfeather, stepped up a rank to become deputy, and even had a family of her own.
Leafpool: Her rank, respect from her clan, and conditional forgiveness from her kits.
So yeah, Leafpool got a lot of those privileges back a bit faster than Squirrelflight, but she had less that she could earn back than her sister. She could never try another relationship with the one she was in love with, she would never have her kits completely forgive her for essentially abandoning them, much less see her as their mother, and she could never try to build a functional family like her sister was able to have.
So in reality, all she really got back was her rank and some respect from the clan, though that's because most of the new generation don't know (or care) about the incident to condemn her for it. They just see her for her talent and abilities as an excellent medicine cat. But even then, earning those two things took 6 entire books, which is probably a year or two.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 15:12:16 GMT -5
Yeah, but let's look at this relatively: Squirrelflight: Earned back her relationship, respect from the clan, forgiveness from Lionblaze and Jayfeather, stepped up a rank to become deputy, and even had a family of her own. Leafpool: Her rank, respect from her clan, and conditional forgiveness from her kits. So yeah, Leafpool got a lot of those privileges back a bit faster than Squirrelflight, but she had less that she could earn back than her sister. She could never try another relationship with the one she was in love with, she would never have her kits completely forgive her for essentially abandoning them, much less see her as their mother, and she could never try to build a functional family like her sister was able to have. So in reality, all she really got back was her rank and some respect from the clan, though that's because most of the new generation don't know (or care) about the incident to condemn her for it. They just see her for her talent and abilities as an excellent medicine cat. But even then, earning those two things took 6 entire books, which is probably a year or two. But that was Leafpool's own fault. She shouldn't have had Crowfeather as a mate or kits at all. She broke two codes. Leafpool is supposed to be the medicine cat. And I don't blame them for not forgiving her entirely. Leafpool's lie messed up their lives and cats judged them for a while. Leafpool brought everything upon herself. What you told me that she never got back was something she shouldn't have had in the first place had she just followed the warrior code. I'm not saying she can't fall in love; everyone has the right to feel what they want, but she wasn't supposed to have Crowfeather as a mate. Leafpool ran away. She broke the warrior code.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 8, 2016 23:49:32 GMT -5
Ah don't forget, Squirrelflight suffered more when the three were in danger, because regardless of blood, she still saw them as her own kits. Imo Squirrelflight was their real mother because she was the one who raised them since their kit hood with the tom she loved. I'm also sure that losing Hollyleaf was harder on her, the same with them turning their back on her too before that. Then she had to deal with Jessy flaunting around with Bramblestar, who was also scrambling and struggling with his leadership, ugh. Even before this she had to deal with Ashfur being a dingus while her sister gets run off with some cat from another clan. Also Leafpool didn't "lose" Crowfeather, she just chose her job over him and made it clear. She shouldn't even have been in a relationship with him in the first place.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 8, 2016 23:52:22 GMT -5
Yeah, but let's look at this relatively: Squirrelflight: Earned back her relationship, respect from the clan, forgiveness from Lionblaze and Jayfeather, stepped up a rank to become deputy, and even had a family of her own. Leafpool: Her rank, respect from her clan, and conditional forgiveness from her kits. So yeah, Leafpool got a lot of those privileges back a bit faster than Squirrelflight, but she had less that she could earn back than her sister. She could never try another relationship with the one she was in love with, she would never have her kits completely forgive her for essentially abandoning them, much less see her as their mother, and she could never try to build a functional family like her sister was able to have. So in reality, all she really got back was her rank and some respect from the clan, though that's because most of the new generation don't know (or care) about the incident to condemn her for it. They just see her for her talent and abilities as an excellent medicine cat. But even then, earning those two things took 6 entire books, which is probably a year or two. But that was Leafpool's own fault. She shouldn't have had Crowfeather as a mate or kits at all. She broke two codes. Leafpool is supposed to be the medicine cat. And I don't blame them for not forgiving her entirely. Leafpool's lie messed up their lives and cats judged them for a while. Leafpool brought everything upon herself. What you told me that she never got back was something she shouldn't have had in the first place had she just followed the warrior code. I'm not saying she can't fall in love; everyone has the right to feel what they want, but she wasn't supposed to have Crowfeather as a mate. Leafpool ran away. She broke the warrior code. It's funny, cause Leafpool didn't really "lose" her job, she voluntarily stepped down, supposedly nobly punishing herself before being punished by Firestar. I honestly hate that "hollier than thou" attitude of her's, especially when it was her fault in the first place. I forgot to also point out that because of her, Yellowfang lied to Squirrelflight, telling her she's baron and can never have kits of her own, so she'd have no choice but to cover up for her irresponsible sister. I'm pretty sure that if Leafpool hadn't gotten with Crowfeather, then Squirrelflight would have had the Three with Bramblestar.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 0:04:54 GMT -5
But that was Leafpool's own fault. She shouldn't have had Crowfeather as a mate or kits at all. She broke two codes. Leafpool is supposed to be the medicine cat. And I don't blame them for not forgiving her entirely. Leafpool's lie messed up their lives and cats judged them for a while. Leafpool brought everything upon herself. What you told me that she never got back was something she shouldn't have had in the first place had she just followed the warrior code. I'm not saying she can't fall in love; everyone has the right to feel what they want, but she wasn't supposed to have Crowfeather as a mate. Leafpool ran away. She broke the warrior code. It's funny, cause Leafpool didn't really "lose" her job, she voluntarily stepped down, supposedly nobly punishing herself before being punished by Firestar. I honestly hate that "hollier than thou" attitude of her's, especially when it was her fault in the first place. I forgot to also point out that because of her, Yellowfang lied to Squirrelflight, telling her she's baron and can never have kits of her own, so she'd have no choice but to cover up for her irresponsible sister. I'm pretty sure that if Leafpool hadn't gotten with Crowfeather, then Squirrelflight would have had the Three with Bramblestar. Yeah my friend told me earlier that Leafpool was never really punished. Losing her rank was her own choice, not Firestar dropping it himself. I mean I still like Leafpool, but I just can't stand the choices she's made. They were foolish and have done nothing but cause everyone pain.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 9, 2016 0:28:32 GMT -5
It's funny, cause Leafpool didn't really "lose" her job, she voluntarily stepped down, supposedly nobly punishing herself before being punished by Firestar. I honestly hate that "hollier than thou" attitude of her's, especially when it was her fault in the first place. I forgot to also point out that because of her, Yellowfang lied to Squirrelflight, telling her she's baron and can never have kits of her own, so she'd have no choice but to cover up for her irresponsible sister. I'm pretty sure that if Leafpool hadn't gotten with Crowfeather, then Squirrelflight would have had the Three with Bramblestar. Yeah my friend told me earlier that Leafpool was never really punished. Losing her rank was her own choice, not Firestar dropping it himself. I mean I still like Leafpool, but I just can't stand the choices she's made. They were foolish and have done nothing but cause everyone pain. This is one of the reasons why I don't like secretive forbidden romances in general. The only two relationships that were really out in the open were GraySilver and Windflight's parents. In the long run, they didn't cause too much of a mess. But on the other hand there was the on and off drama with Lion and Heather, the same with Dove + Tiger/Bumble, and even Blue with Oak, all unnecessary drama. And then from what I've seen, Leaf and Crow's is the worse out of all of them, it's caused way too much trouble in the long run, it was ridiculous.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 9, 2016 16:53:57 GMT -5
And don't forget that since Leafpool apparently has a super strong connection with StarClan, which she probably gave to Jayfeather as well as him being one of the Three, she can visit her father and her biological daughter in her dreams. On the other paw, Squirrelflight must wait to die to visit them, her two kits, and her father unless a prophecy is given to her. Yeah, Squirrelflight became deputy, but that was to show Bramblestar trusted her and forgave her. She still wen through the pain of being close to him, but not close enough and had the risk of losing him to Jessy.
Leafpool should have remained a warrior. Why? It would have been a punishment that Firestar could have given her. "Okay, you want to drop your rank to avoid punishment? You get to stay that way now and never go back." Now that I think about it, her giving up her rank on her own can kind of be taken as her defying Firestar's authority.
Just because Leafpool didnt get what she had at one time doesn't mean she didn't get "everything" back. Some things she gave up and had no claim to, or should have had no claim to, afterwards. Prime examples are the Three and claiming she was their mother, Crowfeather, and this can also be applied to her position.
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