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Post by mEmE on Oct 6, 2016 21:59:04 GMT -5
Isn't Rowanstar supposed to have some experience with leadership when he was deputy? Why does he seem like it's his first day at his job. He seemed fine in prior books, but he seems like he has no idea what the hell hes doing, he is indecisive, has next to no clue how to discipline cats, argues constantly with things that he should've just used his veto power.
The queens too, weren't they supposed to do something to keep these kids in line?
You know, I can't exactly blame Onestar for kind of refusing remedy, judging partly by his insanity and his unfortunate encounter with the rogues. I think Onestar thought that the remedies would be absolutely wasted on a bunch of idiots, and so far from what I'm reading in the book, he's not exactly wrong.
And probably an unpopular opinion, but Twigpaw is really getting on my nerves with his naiveness.
Not to insult the book, writing is pretty nice, the book did really well in portraying the moronic side of the cats.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 22:11:42 GMT -5
I feel like Rowanstar is doing the best he can given the circumstances with the apprentices. Could he try a little harder? Probably. But it seems like no matter what he does, Needletail and the other young cats just don't care. They're so apathetic to everything it makes them hard to punish. They don't care about taking care of the elders or doing chores. Exile clearly didn't work, because they just went straight to Darktail. There's not really much that could be done to them to make them behave. They're just entitled little brats.
I think this problem is mainly caused by brand new warriors mentoring apprentices. Most of ShadowClan's older cats died, so all these new warriors are being pumped out and then they're automatically being put in charge of some kit when they have no experience. They don't know how to lead or make another cat obey, so they get out of control.
They would probably be behaving the same way if they lived in any of the other Clans, except for ThunderClan because all ThunderClan cats are born perfect and can do no wrong.
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Post by mEmE on Oct 6, 2016 22:30:32 GMT -5
Alright i finished the book, I'd have to say it is one of the funniest books I've ever read in the warriors series, didn't exactly trigger an emotional response, but was pretty amusing because in a sense the book is basically a bunch of clueless idiots squabbling and arguing over simple things
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 23:24:38 GMT -5
Kate thought it'd be funny to completely ruin shadowclan just for drama's sake. it was already established in Night Whispers that shadowclan runs like any other clan, they get along fine and don't blame each other for losing the battle and their main priority is to work on being better, but the erins threw that out the window i guess. cause shadowclan is ~~dark hearted~~
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Post by mEmE on Oct 6, 2016 23:36:36 GMT -5
Kate thought it'd be funny to completely ruin shadowclan just for drama's sake. it was already established in Night Whispers that shadowclan runs like any other clan, they get along fine and don't blame each other for losing the battle and their main priority is to work on being better, but the erins threw that out the window i guess. cause shadowclan is ~~dark hearted~~ I wouldn't say "dark hearted" , this current shadowclan generation is not "dark hearted" they're just plain idiotic. |
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Post by Sablemoon on Oct 6, 2016 23:44:56 GMT -5
The Erins need to give SC some serious love. The spoiled ShadowClan brats are right- they're not the Clan they used to be. It honestly feels like they're just cannon fodder at this point; always having trouble that threatens to disband them every other book or whatnot. Now that it actually has, hopefully they can make an epic comeback and be known as a fearsome Clan told to scare kits as nursery tales again.
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Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Oct 7, 2016 0:17:41 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, not many leaders (if any) had to deal with mass treason from their younger cats.
Clans may have had one or two traitors at a time, but never have almost all the apprentices left to join a band of rogues.
At that point, Rowanstar, who was barely recovering from yellowcough, had to figure out whether to go after the cats that willingly left, or focus on the clan that needed him. The issue with the herbs only made it harder to find a right choice, since Windclan wasn't cooperating and Kestrelflight was scared to act out of line, since Onestar has begun to go late-Bluestar-senile.
With his older cats dying, his healthiest young cats gone, and the pressure of the "prophecy" upon them, Rowanstar basically began to realize that he hardly had any options left, and his clanmates also realized that.
So when they saw Darktail, a leader that could "save" them from their struggles, their fear of suffering and death made them turn on their leader, leaving Rowanstar only to be supported by his mate and son, what was he supposed to do? He couldn't force them to do anything, nor could he take everyone to Thunderclan against their will.
His only option was to retreat and attempt to reclaim what was his later.
Honestly, I felt terrible for him. I've never really liked him all that much, but he really earned my sympathy in this book. Not even Bluestar and Firestar had to deal with something of this level.
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Post by Bramblestar on Oct 7, 2016 0:25:46 GMT -5
I feel that Blackstar would have realized all that Rowanstar had missed long before it was too late. Given all the experience Rowanstar had, I never understood how he just assumed his leadership would never be challenged knowing all that happened in the old forest and how easy it was for a leader to be killed/ousted back then.
Onestar was right through the entire book, although he might be a little crazy now, his reasoning was still correct. Didn't he say they could have the herb if Shadowclan drove the rouges out? I think he even volunteered to help them do it. Rowanstar refused to deal with the problem from the beginning even though the clans had driven rouges from their territories for moons. It's all his fault.
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Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Oct 7, 2016 0:30:19 GMT -5
I feel that Blackstar would have realized all that Rowanstar had missed long before it was too late. Given all the experience Rowanstar had, I never understood how he just assumed his leadership would never be challenged knowing all that happened in the old forest and how easy it was for a leader to be killed/ousted back then. Onestar was right through the entire book, although he might be a little crazy now, his reasoning was still correct. Didn't he say they could have the herb if Shadowclan drove the rouges out? I think he even volunteered to help them do it. Rowanstar refused to deal with the problem from the beginning even though the clans had driven rouges from their territories for moons. It's all his fault. I think the problem was this: Rowanstar can't risk driving out the rogues because his cats are too weak. His cats are too weak because they don't have the herb. They don't have the herb because they can't risk driving out the rogues. And so on, thus there never really being a possible solution until one of those chains break. But the herb arrived too late, thus making the other options impossible. |
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Post by Bramblestar on Oct 7, 2016 0:37:19 GMT -5
I feel that Blackstar would have realized all that Rowanstar had missed long before it was too late. Given all the experience Rowanstar had, I never understood how he just assumed his leadership would never be challenged knowing all that happened in the old forest and how easy it was for a leader to be killed/ousted back then. Onestar was right through the entire book, although he might be a little crazy now, his reasoning was still correct. Didn't he say they could have the herb if Shadowclan drove the rouges out? I think he even volunteered to help them do it. Rowanstar refused to deal with the problem from the beginning even though the clans had driven rouges from their territories for moons. It's all his fault. I think the problem was this: Rowanstar can't risk driving out the rogues because his cats are too weak. His cats are too weak because they don't have the herb. They don't have the herb because they can't risk driving out the rogues. And so on, thus there never really being a possible solution until one of those chains break. But the herb arrived too late, thus making the other options impossible. I think he should have accepted help from the other clans. Bramblestar and Mistystar would probably be willing to do it, and like I said, I thought Onestar did volunteer to help as well. Yes, Rowanstar was in a dilemma throughout the whole thing and matters were made much worse when Crowfrost died (that was the only part of the book I didn't like, the sickness was at an end and his death appeared forced). He was the leader though, it was his responsibility to control the clan and he failed, I just hope he can somehow prove to be an effective one later on. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 0:56:08 GMT -5
I think Rowanstar doesn't want to attack the rogues because the majority of his Clan is allied with them at this point. His mate and son are the only cats he has on his side (Dawnpelt and Puddleshine too, but as long as they're with ShadowClan they are at risk of getting hurt). If he gathered warriors from the other Clans to attack Darktail, he risks the chance of his former Clan mates getting killed and I don't think he wants that to happen. I know they turned against him, but it's hard to treat someone you have known for so long as a sudden enemy.
And if Rowanstar attacked and claimed his Clan back, who is to say they would ever trust him again? I know several of these cats would most likely hold grudges against Rowanstar for attacking them. Even though he would have the right to attack them, they would never see it that way. They would hate him even more than they do and I wouldn't be surprised if they left ShadowClan all together. And then that opens up another problem of ShadowClan being low on warriors if several of his cats are banished.
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Post by Bramblestar on Oct 7, 2016 1:10:30 GMT -5
I think Rowanstar doesn't want to attack the rogues because the majority of his Clan is allied with them at this point. His mate and son are the only cats he has on his side (Dawnpelt and Puddleshine too, but as long as they're with ShadowClan they are at risk of getting hurt). If he gathered warriors from the other Clans to attack Darktail, he risks the chance of his former Clan mates getting killed and I don't think he wants that to happen. I know they turned against him, but it's hard to treat someone you have known for so long as a sudden enemy. And if Rowanstar attacked and claimed his Clan back, who is to say they would ever trust him again? I know several of these cats would most likely hold grudges against Rowanstar for attacking them. Even though he would have the right to attack them, they would never see it that way. They would hate him even more than they do and I wouldn't be surprised if they left ShadowClan all together. And then that opens up another problem of ShadowClan being low on warriors if several of his cats are banished. I don't see any other solution if they won't attack Darktail, other than if the former Shadowclan cats realize how tough and brutal life can be under him, like Violetpaw did for a little while. He should have attacked the rouges the moment they came to the lake, like Onestar did, Rowanstar refused to do that and now he has this problem on his paws. The whole situation was a mess for Rowanstar... You're most likely right on that. Just want to mention that the Windclan cats who backed Mudclaw were all forgiven and became more or less loyal to Onestar again but, that was a different issue from the current one so it's not really applicable. The cause of all this was Darktail and in a narrower sense, Needletail. I only hope Shadowclan is restored later on. |
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