Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 5, 2016 22:32:07 GMT -5
Of kits being deemed a weakness or burden to she-cats who show the slightest potential to be leader or deputy or even are leaders or deputies. Or even the saying "kits will ruin blank!"
The unsaid rule of she-cats having to birth all the kits they want before even gaining a rank is ridiculous. Yes, it does prevent them from doing normal warrior duties at a time. However, a deputy can still do their duties by sending out patrols. A leader doesn't do that much anyways. I don't ever recall seeing Bluestar hunting unless she was training Firestar. Even Firestar was in his den at a time.
It's sexist to prevent them from gaining a position simply because they're taking on the harsh task of raising children.
"They'll distract them from their duties!"
So instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt and allowing them to do their own thing, you're just going to say this? Won't fathers, especially with the development of how close they are now, also distract them? Didn't Willowpelt go out to hunt from time to time when she was raising her kits? Who's to say the leader or deputy won't go on a patrol?
May I also point out that a lot of the times, it's the toms or the Clan that makes a queen go into the nursery early? Squirrelflight was told many times to rest and eat. And didn't Berrynose push Poppyfrost into the nursery despite her just finding out? Isn't is also said that a queen will continue her duties until she can not anymore?
Besides, there's more to being a warrior over hunting and patrolling. A pregnant leader or deputy can assist with other tasks. Instead everyone wants them to just chill and relax. And after a certain point, a queen does go back to her duties. Moonflower and Rainflower are an example.
Everyone acts like the leader and deputy who may be pregnant will just be a burden on their Clan and has no right to lead. I find this extremely untrue because some of the best female warriors are queens. Goldenflower, Willowpelt, Frostfur, Speckletail. They are all fine warriors and I can see one or two of them being a hell of a deputy or even leader.
As for battles, sure leaders and deputies can go into battle. However, I don't think that has to do a thing with fighting spirit. ThunderClan was begging their leader to allow them to fight WindClan. There was no low morale there, they wanted to get them back for taking prey. Sunningrocks is constantly fought over and just because a leader or deputy isn't in the patrol doesn't mean they're going to lose. The only reason a leader or deputy leads a patrol is because they're expected to know how to lead. Yet we don't see the deputies or leaders leading every patrol.
I honestly don't get why this is such a big issue. If it's such an ordeal, then forbid every high rank from having kits. Make it fair. Everyone shames a she-cat when she makes a poor decision based on her kits, but people turn a blind eye when a male leader does the same for his kits. -coughs-oakstar-coughs-
|
|
|
Post by mEmE on Oct 5, 2016 22:51:58 GMT -5
Not exactly having kits, "the period of time of nursing kits" Put them out of their duties for the time being select a temporary replacement or sometime just don't tire the hell out of the poor she-cat. I'm pretty sure the rest of the clan wouldn't want a leader or deputy with a bad case of insomnia
I'm just gonna say this, again, maternity leave does exist and surprise surprise, it was created in favour of the parent.
Sure, go have your kids, but at least appoint a replacement while you are nursing your kids, and actually take time as bond with your kids more, you'll have your job back wen you're finished
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 5, 2016 23:03:30 GMT -5
THIS, THANK YOU. I don't mind she-cats having kits, and I'm also sick of people saying it's a weakness. Like no not all of them need to have kits, it's fine if they want to stay a single pringle. But just because they had kits, or plan to have kits, doesn't mean they're no longer credible as warriors. I don't remember who's ceremony it was but I do remember someone receiving a life from a queen, and when she passed it to them, the cat was barely able to stand. Because they felt the ferocity of a Queen's over protective nature, especially when it came to their kits. Queens have WAY MORE on the line when fighting, they fight like all of lion clan if they have too, it makes them more fierce some. Because they're not fighting just for themselves, and their clan, they're fighting to defend their kits, their kin, their blood, that can't even defend themselves. Queens should be treated with respect, they're a vital part of the clan. I may not like Ferncloud, but even she was shown fighting during the Dark Forest.
|
|
|
Post by mEmE on Oct 5, 2016 23:08:20 GMT -5
THIS, THANK YOU. I don't mind she-cats having kits, and I'm also sick of people saying it's a weakness. Like no not all of them need to have kits, it's fine if they want to stay a single pringle. But just because they had kits, or plan to have kits, doesn't mean they're no longer credible as warriors. I don't remember who's ceremony it was but I do remember someone receiving a life from a queen, and when she passed it to them, the cat was barely able to stand. Because they felt the ferocity of a Queen's over protective nature, especially when it came to their kits. Queens have WAY MORE on the line when fighting, they fight like all of lion clan if they have too, it makes them more fierce some. Because they're not fighting just for themselves, and their clan, they're fighting to defend their kits, their kin, their blood, that can't even defend themselves. Queens should be treated with respect, they're a vital part of the clan. I may not like Ferncloud, but even she was shown fighting during the Dark Forest. Seriously? Why do people think excusing the nursing she-cat from their role is a bad idea? I do support gaurunteeing her the position when she's done, but just let her enjoy life as a mother without having to worry about extra crap. It's not because "kits will make her weak" it's more like "give a friggin break" Give her the job back when she's done, the argument is hardly emotional, more physical
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 5, 2016 23:18:12 GMT -5
THIS, THANK YOU. I don't mind she-cats having kits, and I'm also sick of people saying it's a weakness. Like no not all of them need to have kits, it's fine if they want to stay a single pringle. But just because they had kits, or plan to have kits, doesn't mean they're no longer credible as warriors. I don't remember who's ceremony it was but I do remember someone receiving a life from a queen, and when she passed it to them, the cat was barely able to stand. Because they felt the ferocity of a Queen's over protective nature, especially when it came to their kits. Queens have WAY MORE on the line when fighting, they fight like all of lion clan if they have too, it makes them more fierce some. Because they're not fighting just for themselves, and their clan, they're fighting to defend their kits, their kin, their blood, that can't even defend themselves. Queens should be treated with respect, they're a vital part of the clan. I may not like Ferncloud, but even she was shown fighting during the Dark Forest. Seriously? Why do people think excusing the nursing she-cat from their role is a bad idea? I do support gaurunteeing her the position when she's done, but just let her enjoy life as a mother without having to worry about extra crap. It's not because "kits will make her weak" it's more like "give a friggin break" Give her the job back when she's done, the argument is hardly emotional, more physical This was also somewhat directed towards those who assume that Ivypool will be ruined if she has kits. If anything, it'd make her stronger and fiercer. I get people want some to stay single, and I agree, I want Dovewing to remain single, for example. However, just the general negativity of a character having kits peeves me off.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 23:30:26 GMT -5
'CAUSE I'M SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO TIRED OF TEARS SO DONE WITH WISHING YOU WAS STILL HERE 'CAUSE IM SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO SAD AND SLLOOOOOW SO WHY DONT I TURN OFF THE RADIO?
(guys please just stop fighting)
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 5, 2016 23:32:08 GMT -5
Seriously? Why do people think excusing the nursing she-cat from their role is a bad idea? I do support gaurunteeing her the position when she's done, but just let her enjoy life as a mother without having to worry about extra crap. It's not because "kits will make her weak" it's more like "give a friggin break" Give her the job back when she's done, the argument is hardly emotional, more physical This was also somewhat directed towards those who assume that Ivypool will be ruined if she has kits. If anything, it'd make her stronger and fiercer. I get people want some to stay single, and I agree, I want Dovewing to remain single, for example. However, just the general negativity of a character having kits peeves me off. ^^^ I've seen a lot of people say this, and it burns me up. It's about credibility. People think once a she-cat has kits, and goes on "leave" she loses credibility of becoming a deputy, leader, or staying a great warrior.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 5, 2016 23:35:29 GMT -5
'CAUSE I'M SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO TIRED OF TEARS SO DONE WITH WISHING YOU WAS STILL HERE 'CAUSE IM SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO SAD AND SLLOOOOOW SO WHY DONT I TURN OFF THE RADIO? (guys please just stop fighting)I don't see any fighting on here yet. Please don't bring it on here, either.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 5, 2016 23:36:15 GMT -5
This was also somewhat directed towards those who assume that Ivypool will be ruined if she has kits. If anything, it'd make her stronger and fiercer. I get people want some to stay single, and I agree, I want Dovewing to remain single, for example. However, just the general negativity of a character having kits peeves me off. ^^^ I've seen a lot of people say this, and it burns me up. It's about credibility. People think once a she-cat has kits, and goes on "leave" she loses credibility of becoming a deputy, leader, or staying a great warrior. Goldenflower and Willowpelt would have made good deputies and maybe even leaders.
|
|
|
Post by mEmE on Oct 5, 2016 23:56:54 GMT -5
This was also somewhat directed towards those who assume that Ivypool will be ruined if she has kits. If anything, it'd make her stronger and fiercer. I get people want some to stay single, and I agree, I want Dovewing to remain single, for example. However, just the general negativity of a character having kits peeves me off. ^^^ I've seen a lot of people say this, and it burns me up. It's about credibility. People think once a she-cat has kits, and goes on "leave" she loses credibility of becoming a deputy, leader, or staying a great warrior. God damn, it's not about being incapable, it's about giving the she-cat some breathing space and have her have fun taking care of her kits, give her the job back when she's done, just give her a break while she's nursing the kits full time, I said it before, no one wants a leader with insomnia. The physical stress is just way too much. If a leader or a deputy broke his or her leg, or develops some kind of disease. Give him/her a break and have them take care of themselves, also have a temporary replacement while they're at it, it's a win-win situation. I don't get why you guys are so against it
|
|
|
Post by Woofzie on Oct 5, 2016 23:59:22 GMT -5
Love your post. Here, have a free taco.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 6, 2016 0:04:04 GMT -5
^^^ I've seen a lot of people say this, and it burns me up. It's about credibility. People think once a she-cat has kits, and goes on "leave" she loses credibility of becoming a deputy, leader, or staying a great warrior. God damn, it's not about being incapable, it's about giving the she-cat some breathing space and have her have fun taking care of her kits, give her the job back when she's done, just give her a break while she's nursing the kits full time, I said it before, no one wants a leader with insomnia. The physical stress is just way too much. If a leader or a deputy broke his or her leg, or develops some kind of disease. Give him/her a break and have them take care of themselves, also have a temporary replacement while they're at it, it's a win-win situation. I don't get why you guys are so against it You literally keep missing the point. We know she-cats need to take a leave to help raise their kits. We just don't like when people honest to goodness think that having kits will ruin a she-cat character. Its honestly a dumb way of thinking.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 6, 2016 0:14:02 GMT -5
God damn, it's not about being incapable, it's about giving the she-cat some breathing space and have her have fun taking care of her kits, give her the job back when she's done, just give her a break while she's nursing the kits full time, I said it before, no one wants a leader with insomnia. The physical stress is just way too much. If a leader or a deputy broke his or her leg, or develops some kind of disease. Give him/her a break and have them take care of themselves, also have a temporary replacement while they're at it, it's a win-win situation. I don't get why you guys are so against it You literally keep missing the point. We know she-cats need to take a leave to help raise their kits. We just don't like when people honest to goodness think that having kits will ruin a she-cat character. Its honestly a dumb way of thinking.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 6, 2016 0:16:57 GMT -5
If you ask me this rule was made by erins only to make some plot with Bluefur's kits. End of the story.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 6, 2016 0:16:57 GMT -5
Love your post. Here, have a free taco. Thanks? xD
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 6, 2016 0:17:56 GMT -5
If you ask me this rule was made by erins only to make some plot with Bluefur's kits. End of the story. We know that, but a good majority of the fandom on here seem to dislike the idea of a female leader or female deputy having kits.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 6, 2016 0:29:04 GMT -5
If you ask me this rule was made by erins only to make some plot with Bluefur's kits. End of the story. We know that, but a good majority of the fandom on here seem to dislike the idea of a female leader or female deputy having kits. Take a while to guess why. A) It's totally their opinion It's in the warrior code and the Clan cats act that way C) Erins said it is okay, but didn't change acting of the cats Vote now on your phone! In case you chose A, then you are an erin fan no matter what, even though they killed 10 of your favorite cats. In case you chose B, you are still an erin fan but you just dislike every comment on fb/yt critisizing erins. In case you chose C, congratulations! You aren't completely brainwashed by 3 40 year old women who sit at home and write about cats!
|
|
|
Post by mEmE on Oct 6, 2016 5:54:00 GMT -5
God damn, it's not about being incapable, it's about giving the she-cat some breathing space and have her have fun taking care of her kits, give her the job back when she's done, just give her a break while she's nursing the kits full time, I said it before, no one wants a leader with insomnia. The physical stress is just way too much. If a leader or a deputy broke his or her leg, or develops some kind of disease. Give him/her a break and have them take care of themselves, also have a temporary replacement while they're at it, it's a win-win situation. I don't get why you guys are so against it You literally keep missing the point. We know she-cats need to take a leave to help raise their kits. We just don't like when people honest to goodness think that having kits will ruin a she-cat character. Its honestly a dumb way of thinking. Oh ok, because that was not what I was debating about when this [oops! Please keep language appropriate] first started, guess the topic changed
|
|
|
Post by Ligerfrost on Oct 6, 2016 8:52:48 GMT -5
'CAUSE I'M SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO TIRED OF TEARS SO DONE WITH WISHING YOU WAS STILL HERE 'CAUSE IM SO SICK OF LOVE SONGS SO SAD AND SLLOOOOOW SO WHY DONT I TURN OFF THE RADIO? (guys please just stop fighting)''LEAVE ME ALONE (LEAVE ME ALONE) STUPID LOVE SONGS DON'T MAKE ME THINK ABOUT HER SMILE OR HAVING MY FIRST CHILD I'M LETTING GO TURNING OFF THE RADIO!
|
|
|
Post by sonnensturm1 on Oct 6, 2016 10:23:37 GMT -5
Ashfoot was a queen since forever and they made her deputy. Maybe because everyone else was evil at that time. But still..
|
|
Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
|
Post by Sootfeather on Oct 6, 2016 10:30:56 GMT -5
If you ask me this rule was made by erins only to make some plot with Bluefur's kits. End of the story. After they no longer needed it, they decided to make Squirrelflight an exception because she's Firestar's kin and therefore has special needs and is superior to any cat that isn't related to Firestar. So much for the morals Into The Wild gave us, like how you shouldn't treat someone differently because of how they're born, as they're just as capable as anyone else.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 6, 2016 16:08:37 GMT -5
We know that, but a good majority of the fandom on here seem to dislike the idea of a female leader or female deputy having kits. Take a while to guess why. A) It's totally their opinion It's in the warrior code and the Clan cats act that way C) Erins said it is okay, but didn't change acting of the cats Vote now on your phone! In case you chose A, then you are an erin fan no matter what, even though they killed 10 of your favorite cats. In case you chose B, you are still an erin fan but you just dislike every comment on fb/yt critisizing erins. In case you chose C, congratulations! You aren't completely brainwashed by 3 40 year old women who sit at home and write about cats! The code doesn't say that at all. Also, if you're going to be rude, I suggest not posting.
|
|
|
Post by Aku on Oct 6, 2016 16:18:50 GMT -5
Tbh, my opinion is that as long as the she-cat can properly care for the kits then I see no problem with her being deputy and/or leader. I would just prefer if maybe the first two moons when the kits need her the most she takes a temporary leave and then once her kits are more grown she could go back to her duties again.
|
|
|
Post by Bramblestar on Oct 6, 2016 17:22:55 GMT -5
Take a while to guess why. A) It's totally their opinion B) It's in the warrior code and the Clan cats act that way C) Erins said it is okay, but didn't change acting of the cats Vote now on your phone! In case you chose A, then you are an erin fan no matter what, even though they killed 10 of your favorite cats. In case you chose B, you are still an erin fan but you just dislike every comment on fb/yt critisizing erins. In case you chose C, congratulations! You aren't completely brainwashed by 3 40 year old women who sit at home and write about cats! The code doesn't say that at all. Also, if you're going to be rude, I suggest not posting. Didn't sound rude, I thought it was just funny?
|
|
|
Post by Aku on Oct 6, 2016 17:55:27 GMT -5
Same, I don't see how Whispering Leaves was rude. They came off more humorous than rude
|
|
|
Post by mEmE on Oct 6, 2016 18:28:25 GMT -5
Tbh, my opinion is that as long as the she-cat can properly care for the kits then I see no problem with her being deputy and/or leader. I would just prefer if maybe the first two moons when the kits need her the most she takes a temporary leave and then once her kits are more grown she could go back to her duties again. More like 6 moons, you want the kid to have the best care possible, her position as leader/deputy ain't going anywhere, might as well take her time
|
|
|
Post by Aku on Oct 6, 2016 18:34:21 GMT -5
Tbh, my opinion is that as long as the she-cat can properly care for the kits then I see no problem with her being deputy and/or leader. I would just prefer if maybe the first two moons when the kits need her the most she takes a temporary leave and then once her kits are more grown she could go back to her duties again. More like 6 moons, you want the kid to have the best care possible, her position as leader/deputy ain't going anywhere, might as well take her time True, that's a good point. Perhaps she could still help with the small stuff in camp when the kits are older?
|
|
|
Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Oct 6, 2016 18:44:17 GMT -5
I think the issue with Bluefur/star at that point was that she was not already the deputy, and the selection was likely to occur while she was nursing her young kits. It's not that they wouldn't choose a mother, but it's that they're less likely to choose a mother who'll nurse for at least 3 more moons. It's be shown that if a she-cat is already an established deputy when she begins to expect kits of her own, then she can easily be excused for the moons that she's required to nurse for her kittens. A replacement can easily be found. So had Bluefur already become deputy at that point, she wouldn't need to give up her kits. The issue was that she wouldn't be considered a choice while she was nursing her newborns and would have been doing so for at least 3-4 more moons, when the clan needed an active deputy almost immediately. It was just bad timing.
As for the negativity surrounding deputies/leaders having kits, I simply don't understand that. We've already seen that caring for kits has made she-cats, namely Squirrelflight, much more mature that they used to be. Having others depend on you allows you to grow more as an "adult", and I believe that most mothers get the chance to do so once they have kits of their own. So, honestly, I think having kits is something that only benefits characters in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 7, 2016 1:55:15 GMT -5
Take a while to guess why. A) It's totally their opinion It's in the warrior code and the Clan cats act that way C) Erins said it is okay, but didn't change acting of the cats Vote now on your phone! In case you chose A, then you are an erin fan no matter what, even though they killed 10 of your favorite cats. In case you chose B, you are still an erin fan but you just dislike every comment on fb/yt critisizing erins. In case you chose C, congratulations! You aren't completely brainwashed by 3 40 year old women who sit at home and write about cats! The code doesn't say that at all. Also, if you're going to be rude, I suggest not posting. Did I sound rude? Oh sorry, it was just a joke.
|
|