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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 15:52:18 GMT -5
I am angry at how they forced Dovewing to accept the prophecy when she was an apprentice. Jay and Lion didn't want it either! They should have at least given her more time to accept it willingly. I feel sorry for both Ivypool and Dovewing. Lion and Jay both forced them to accept the prophecy and being a spy when they never wanted it. I forgot how hard it was for Ivy and Dove to accept something they didn't want to do. I feel sorry for them, because they were both pressured about it too. Lion and Jay are jerks. They should have respected Ivy and Dove more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:10:24 GMT -5
I still hold some sympathy for Lion and Jay...They lost their sister that the time and they were already under their OWN stress.
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Post by andy on Oct 5, 2016 16:17:13 GMT -5
Lionblaze and Jayfeather are morons. They didn't want to be special and were upset about it, and right after Hollyleaf bails and Dovewing exists, they're telling her to suck it up and think about the prophecy. And I feel like even then they still complained? Thank god they don't have powers anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:25:36 GMT -5
Lionblaze and Jayfeather are morons. They didn't want to be special and were upset about it, and right after Hollyleaf bails and Dovewing exists, they're telling her to suck it up and think about the prophecy. And I feel like even then they still complained? Thank god they don't have powers anymore. They did. Lionblaze almost killed himself, fighting a fox to protect Cinderheart and whined when she didn't want him as her mate, and Jayfeather complained to Rock about how unfair it was that he couldn't have Half Moon. They were both full grown adults, mind you. At least Dovewing is younger and pretty much had no time to develop her own personality thanks to the prophecy so she still remains as a child in a way. Even then she seemed more mature than they were at times, and tried to defend her sister when Lion and Jay didn't trust Ivy. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:29:27 GMT -5
I still hold some sympathy for Lion and Jay...They lost their sister that the time and they were already under their OWN stress. True, but focing them to accept something was wrong and only adds more pressure onto both sisters. Lion and Jay should have handled it better. Ivy and Dove were both still young. Being a spy for Ivy, and Dove saving the Clans, is a huge responsibility for both of them. I don't blame either sister for arguing about it to Lion and Jay. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:30:07 GMT -5
*Forcing
I'm on mobile.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:44:10 GMT -5
its not really forced. Dovewing's powers are a part of her. Its like parents telling their daughter she will have a painful period every month for the next 30ish years of her life. Its a part of her even if you don't like it. Ivypool volunteered to spy so it wasn't forced that way either. that's a good way of putting it, but their powers were taken away after the final battle. |
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Oct 5, 2016 16:51:52 GMT -5
its not really forced. Dovewing's powers are a part of her. Its like parents telling their daughter she will have a painful period every month for the next 30ish years of her life. Its a part of her even if you don't like it. Ivypool volunteered to spy so it wasn't forced that way either. that's a good way of putting it, but their powers were taken away after the final battle. yeah and the prophecy was over at that point |
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Post by mEmE on Oct 5, 2016 17:16:35 GMT -5
its not really forced. Dovewing's powers are a part of her. Its like parents telling their daughter she will have a painful period every month for the next 30ish years of her life. Its a part of her even if you don't like it. Ivypool volunteered to spy so it wasn't forced that way either. It was kind of, the thing starts with them being conceived first and their powers were kinda given to them by the ancients. It was just plain unfortunate that they were chosen. I don't think Dovewing could've said that "oh i don't want it" what would've happened then? Transfer it to another person? I don't think it is plausible. In a sense yes, they were forced, Dovewing just unfortunate anought o be one of them Ivypool wasn't forced, but she was more or less pressured. In a sense, its like "fire could save the clan". Well, what if Rusty didn't feel like it? Well then, ThunderClan would've been pretty much dead by now. Most prophecies and destinies are usually half-forced, its following that basic traditional pattern of storytelling. |
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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Oct 5, 2016 17:40:49 GMT -5
its not really forced. Dovewing's powers are a part of her. Its like parents telling their daughter she will have a painful period every month for the next 30ish years of her life. Its a part of her even if you don't like it. Ivypool volunteered to spy so it wasn't forced that way either. This is what I think. Sure, Lionblaze and Jayfeather could've been less forceful, and yes, I think that they handled the situation wrong; they should've tried to ease Dovewing into it more gently. Unfortunately, gentleness isn't exactly their strong suit. As stated above, Dovewing had to adapt sooner or later, and I guess Lion and Jay went with sooner. |
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Post by Bramblestar on Oct 5, 2016 18:44:46 GMT -5
Nobody knew how urgent the threat of the dark forest was while Dovepaw was still an apprentice, Lionblaze and Jayfeather had to assume the worst. I think they realized she was unhappy about the prophecy but there were more important matters (such as the dark forest killing everyone...) that took priority over her feelings.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 5, 2016 23:00:02 GMT -5
I lost my sympathy for Lion the moment he blamed Heathertail for Hollyleaf's death, that's so ridiculous. And I like Jayfeather, but he was super pushy, Lionblaze was just worse. He even tried to force Ivypool to tell him who the trainees are, saying they're traitors that needed to be punished. The pot calling the kettle black though, smh.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Oct 5, 2016 23:09:21 GMT -5
I lost my sympathy for Lion the moment he blamed Heathertail for Hollyleaf's death, that's so ridiculous. And I like Jayfeather, but he was super pushy, Lionblaze was just worse. He even tried to force Ivypool to tell him who the trainees are, saying they're traitors that needed to be punished. The pot calling the kettle black though, smh. When did that happen again? |
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Post by mEmE on Oct 5, 2016 23:10:56 GMT -5
Honestly if Lionblaze was not a main character. Judging from an Erins view, he should be wayy deep in the dark forest by now
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 5, 2016 23:24:54 GMT -5
I lost my sympathy for Lion the moment he blamed Heathertail for Hollyleaf's death, that's so ridiculous. And I like Jayfeather, but he was super pushy, Lionblaze was just worse. He even tried to force Ivypool to tell him who the trainees are, saying they're traitors that needed to be punished. The pot calling the kettle black though, smh. When did that happen again? Night Whispers, when Cinderheart and him go near the tunnels: |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 5, 2016 23:29:54 GMT -5
Honestly if Lionblaze was not a main character. Judging from an Erins view, he should be wayy deep in the dark forest by now He started out good, but now I just don't like him tbh. He rubs me the wrong way. How he treated Heathertail was just down right disgusting, how he treated Ivypool and Dovewing was utterly uncomfortable, and how he thinks and dreams certain things it disturbing. I was just reading the scene following where he blamed Heather for what happened to Holly, and it's with him and Flametail. They get into an argument, and Lionblaze thinks this about a medicine cat, and his own kin: Like?? Lol. I thought he felt bad for what he did to Russetfur, yet here he is wanting to do the same with Flametail, a medicine cat, just because he called him a murderer. Which isn't even far from the truth, the whole ShadowClan practically thought the same thing. And Lion is just proving Flame's point by thinking this. |
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Post by Yoshimi on Oct 5, 2016 23:32:46 GMT -5
When did that happen again? Night Whispers, when Cinderheart and him go near the tunnels: I think its called guilt by association it can be sufficient in some cases. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 0:02:50 GMT -5
I lost my sympathy for Lion the moment he blamed Heathertail for Hollyleaf's death, that's so ridiculous. And I like Jayfeather, but he was super pushy, Lionblaze was just worse. He even tried to force Ivypool to tell him who the trainees are, saying they're traitors that needed to be punished. The pot calling the kettle black though, smh. While I'm not fond with how Lion dealt with the situation, Jay wasn't really the greatest, either. You're right; he was pushy, which made me lose a lot of respect for him. Jayfeather went as far as calling Ivypool a traitor. She didn't know that Tigerstar was using her! She was stupid, yeah, but Tigerstar manipulated her. Calling her a traitor was uncalled for. He also pretty much screamed at Dovewing when she didn't want to accept the prophecy, either, and guilt-tripped her by saying they lost their sister because of it: I understand that Jayfeather's gone through a lot, but pressuring Dovewing over a situation she's not even involved was uncalled for. It's not her fault that they lost Hollyleaf, and it isn't Jayfeather's fault, or Lionblaze's fault, either. Why completely insult her and give her pressure because she didn't want to accept the prophecy? Jayfeather, you didn't want it either, and your behavior was no better when Spottedleaf forced you to accept the prophecy. Seriously, he complained about wanting to become a warrior and even wanted to believe in Tiger and Hawk, that they wanted to train him to be a better warrior. Jayfeather's just been a jerk about the prophecy and he's even worse in TAQ. Jayfeather's first thought after Hollyleaf died? We lost one of the Three! He only cared about the prophecy. I don't understand why Jayfeather is loved so much. While I do like his well-developed personality, I do not like how he handled situations, and I definitely don't like how he treated Dove and Ivy, while he's been in their exact situation, for not wanting to accept the prophecy. I dislike Jay. |
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Post by pastelpills on Oct 6, 2016 0:19:36 GMT -5
Agreed, I totally HATE Jayfeather. Lionblaze is kind of okay. I agree they were very forceful, but in my opinion Ivypool had it fairly worse since she had to spy on cat hell, be physically hurt and then loose a lot of sleep. Same goes for Dovewing (I still don't like her though).
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Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Oct 6, 2016 4:46:01 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that the prophecy affected Lion, Jay, and Dove, and even Holly and Ivy, for the worse.
They were so promising in their youth, but in OotS, as the prophecy became all they cared about, they just sort of became desperate, twisted, and worn, both intentionally and unintentionally.
I mean, I guess you could call it realistic, as not everything is roses and daisies, but I wish at least Lionblaze took the initiative to try and ease Dovepaw/wing into things. Jayfeather has always only cared about the prophecy, so I don't expect any better from him, but I thought Lionblaze would've at least become the voice of reason in OotS.
Haha but joke's on us. There was no voice of reason in OotS.
But overall, my expectations of Jayfeather were close to none, but I was most disappointed by Lionblaze, who, though arrogant, at least had a better sense of reality than his brother.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Oct 6, 2016 12:49:39 GMT -5
I lost my sympathy for Lion the moment he blamed Heathertail for Hollyleaf's death, that's so ridiculous. And I like Jayfeather, but he was super pushy, Lionblaze was just worse. He even tried to force Ivypool to tell him who the trainees are, saying they're traitors that needed to be punished. The pot calling the kettle black though, smh. While I'm not fond with how Lion dealt with the situation, Jay wasn't really the greatest, either. You're right; he was pushy, which made me lose a lot of respect for him. Jayfeather went as far as calling Ivypool a traitor. She didn't know that Tigerstar was using her! She was stupid, yeah, but Tigerstar manipulated her. Calling her a traitor was uncalled for. He also pretty much screamed at Dovewing when she didn't want to accept the prophecy, either, and guilt-tripped her by saying they lost their sister because of it: I understand that Jayfeather's gone through a lot, but pressuring Dovewing over a situation she's not even involved was uncalled for. It's not her fault that they lost Hollyleaf, and it isn't Jayfeather's fault, or Lionblaze's fault, either. Why completely insult her and give her pressure because she didn't want to accept the prophecy? Jayfeather, you didn't want it either, and your behavior was no better when Spottedleaf forced you to accept the prophecy. Seriously, he complained about wanting to become a warrior and even wanted to believe in Tiger and Hawk, that they wanted to train him to be a better warrior. Jayfeather's just been a jerk about the prophecy and he's even worse in TAQ. Jayfeather's first thought after Hollyleaf died? We lost one of the Three! He only cared about the prophecy. I don't understand why Jayfeather is loved so much. While I do like his well-developed personality, I do not like how he handled situations, and I definitely don't like how he treated Dove and Ivy, while he's been in their exact situation, for not wanting to accept the prophecy. I dislike Jay. 1. He explains why he considers Ivypool actions as betrayal right after where your quote ends: She was training with a cat that she knew was a threat to the Clans before. And just recently caused more issues with teling her to lie so that a battle over worthless land could occur. You've mentioned before elsewhere that Dovewing has said that Ivypool and her have been informed about Tigerstar's actions through nursery tales. Plus in chapter five of Night Whispers this is a vision he gets concerning her: This would affect his view on her. 2. Why give her an insult and pressure her because she won't accept a prophecy? The quote mentions that he is angered, and is probably due to his impatience with the difficulty of dealing with a young cat. Because prophecies are important and are going to be treated with concern and a need to actually fulfill it, which can't be done if a cat is not accepting it. Yes he did behave similarly to Dovewing. That why he says "Do you think we wanted things like this" Hollyleaf being mentioned seemed more of him expressing his anger at how the prophecy has affected his siblings. And speaking of Hollyleaf being mentioned by Jayfeather, her death did mean something to him. And losing one of the Three was not his first thought, it was to help her get out: It wasn't the first thing he thought. In fact it was the opposite: it was the last thing he thought about. And it certainly wasn't the only thing. |
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Post by CreamCrow on Oct 6, 2016 17:55:20 GMT -5
^
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