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Post by andy on Sept 24, 2016 16:21:59 GMT -5
He was obviously a good cat as a kitten and in the early days of being a member of RiverClan, as the Tigerstar and Sasha comics show.
I'm guessing he became evil after Sasha revealed Tigerstar was his and Mothwing's father, since after then Tigerstar began visiting and influencing him. I wouldn't be surprised if he would've became a good, powerful warrior if Tigerstar had left him alone. But maybe he could've became evil just because of who he is.
I'm guessing Tigerstar definitely started visiting him before Bramblestar, probably around his early apprenticeship after Sasha left the Clan.
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Post by JayWarriors on Sept 24, 2016 16:23:52 GMT -5
Definitely wasn't born evil. I'd say it was Tigerstar's influence, though Hawkfrost definitely took his father's immorality and ran with it all the way, whether it was to please his father or because he actually found joy in being evil, I'm not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 16:42:13 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Hawkfrost met Tigerstar for the first time in Twilight or something, when Tigerstar met with him and Bramblestar in the dark forest. I seem to remember him being in awe of him and excited to finally see him or something.
Which is interesting, because Hawkfrost had quite a record even before he met Tigerstar. He was manipulative from the start- recognizing that if he could make Mothwing a medicine cat, he could control her and therefore control a lot of clan matters, jabbed at Stormfur and Mistystar for being deputies/potential deputies and threatening his leadership possibilities, and was ambitious enough to support Mudclaw with the promise he could be deputy- showing he was willing to disown his clan in order to become leader- something extremely similar to Tigerstar. And all this happened even before he had started to take Tigerstar's training.
So even without Tigerstar filling his head with ideas of how he could take over the clans and kill Firestar and whatnot, I still think Hawkfrost would have been a pretty difficult and even dangerous warrior who probably would have, in one way or another, follow in his father's footsteps- even if he had never met him. 90% of all the things Hawkfrost did was by his own doing, not Tigerstar's.
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Post by andy on Sept 24, 2016 17:06:16 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Hawkfrost met Tigerstar for the first time in Twilight or something, when Tigerstar met with him and Bramblestar in the dark forest. I seem to remember him being in awe of him and excited to finally see him or something. Uhn, is that really how it went in Twilight? I hardly remember what happened in The New Prophecy. If that's so, then I guess I take back most of my original statement. I guess I'll say this instead, Hawkfrost was still a good cat when he was a young cat, but I guess when he started to get older his personality and cunning mind started to shine, then he met Tigerstar and all that happened, but I wouldn't be surprised it the knowledge of things Tigerstar did inspired him to act. |
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 24, 2016 17:19:17 GMT -5
Idk he was such a sweet kit though. Whyyyy
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Post by whiteflight on Sept 24, 2016 19:48:29 GMT -5
well from what I remember the Erin's said he always wanted to be leader and then he made Mothwing a medicine cat hmmmmm as for the Mudclaw thing....hmmm i think he just helped cause he thought that Mudclaw was the right leader for Windclan. A lot of cats agreed with him. But once he saw Tigerstar, they both started making plans together to kill Firestar. So imo I don't think he was born evil he became evil once he met Tigerstar cause he wanted to make his father proud of him.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 24, 2016 20:02:46 GMT -5
well from what I remember the Erin's said he always wanted to be leader and then he made Mothwing a medicine cat hmmmmm as for the Mudclaw thing....hmmm i think he just helped cause he thought that Mudclaw was the right leader for Windclan. A lot of cats agreed with him. But once he saw Tigerstar, they both started making plans together to kill Firestar. So imo I don't think he was born evil he became evil once he met Tigerstar cause he wanted to make his father proud of him. Didn't Mudclaw say he was going to make Hawkfrost deputy? |
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Post by whiteflight on Sept 24, 2016 22:05:12 GMT -5
well from what I remember the Erin's said he always wanted to be leader and then he made Mothwing a medicine cat hmmmmm as for the Mudclaw thing....hmmm i think he just helped cause he thought that Mudclaw was the right leader for Windclan. A lot of cats agreed with him. But once he saw Tigerstar, they both started making plans together to kill Firestar. So imo I don't think he was born evil he became evil once he met Tigerstar cause he wanted to make his father proud of him. Didn't Mudclaw say he was going to make Hawkfrost deputy? Well for that part I really don't know. Cause Mudclaw did say that, but Hawkfrost said that Mudclaw was lying, plus we never heard him say that to Hawkfrost out loud. So Idk about that part since I don't know who to believe for that. |
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Sept 24, 2016 22:24:38 GMT -5
I don't think he was evil from the beginning as he seemed decent as a kit. I think he became evil because of a combination of Sasha leaving RiverClan and his own ambitions. He probably became more evil after training with Tigerstar die to trying to please him as well, but he was ding evil things before that.
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Hawkfrost
Sept 26, 2016 5:45:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Cloudshadow on Sept 26, 2016 5:45:28 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Hawkfrost met Tigerstar for the first time in Twilight or something, when Tigerstar met with him and Bramblestar in the dark forest. I seem to remember him being in awe of him and excited to finally see him or something. Which is interesting, because Hawkfrost had quite a record even before he met Tigerstar. He was manipulative from the start- recognizing that if he could make Mothwing a medicine cat, he could control her and therefore control a lot of clan matters, jabbed at Stormfur and Mistystar for being deputies/potential deputies and threatening his leadership possibilities, and was ambitious enough to support Mudclaw with the promise he could be deputy- showing he was willing to disown his clan in order to become leader- something extremely similar to Tigerstar. And all this happened even before he had started to take Tigerstar's training. So even without Tigerstar filling his head with ideas of how he could take over the clans and kill Firestar and whatnot, I still think Hawkfrost would have been a pretty difficult and even dangerous warrior who probably would have, in one way or another, follow in his father's footsteps- even if he had never met him. 90% of all the things Hawkfrost did was by his own doing, not Tigerstar's. It's interesting. If the order of events are correct here (I haven't read the books in yonks) then I wonder if Hawkfrost would have gotten further/succeeded eventually with one of his plans without Tigerstar's intervention? Since the first big plan they put together failed miserably and ended Hawkfrosts life. Like, maybe Togerstar's patience was thin and his plans were too big and bold, but if Hawlfrost had continued with his slightly more subtle tactics he's have eventually worked his way up the hierarchy. (New spoof idea- Tigerstar as a failed villain that thinks he's really good and Hawkfrost can't get rid of his dad and his annoying interference) |
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