Ivypool: Justified or Unjustified?

In the future, could you please include the scenarios in your updates so that it's not just in the very first post of this thread? In any case, no, he wasn't justified, especially considering how quickly and cruelly he did it.

Rowanstar is justified imo, he did what was best for the clans, and they were just kits who barely knew each other weren't they? It's a doing what's best for everyone in the end, if one clan got the kits over the other, they might feel slighted and even start a war over it. What Rowanstar decided was the most logical, cats from ShadowClan and ThunderClan both found the kits, maybe they could have found some random kittypet or something to take them in, but that would have caused extra risks, sending cats out on the thunderpath, crossing twolegs, etc, it just seems like the best steps to take so I think he was justified

I think this one's easily unjustified in AND out of universe. Dude insists on taking an orphaned kitten away from her only family mostly bc an apprentice wants him to from what I remember? And he doesn't even treat the kitten well and regrets it basically immediately? And all he really achieves is a show of how easily influenced and spineless yet completely undedicated to seeing his own choices through he is? Lol okay dude sure hope that doesn't backfire on you

Absolutely justified, Mudclaw believed he was doing what was best for WindClan, he truly believed that Onestar was conspiring with ThunderClan, and he didn't really have much reason to think otherwise, I don't remember, but was he even there when Tallstar named Onestar as his deputy or did he just hear it secondhand? If it's the latter, then it just solidifies that he was justified.
Maybe he shouldn't have planned a rebellion against Onestar, but honestly, he could have done much worse and killed Onestar directly, he at least gave him a fair chance this way

Barkface, Firestar, Brambleclaw, and Onewhisker were all present when Tallstar died. Mudclaw didn't know about Tallstar's decision until Firestar announced it.

I get being suspicious, but Mudclaw let Hawkfrost pour straight poison down his ear and inflame all his delusions about the situation. Dude was getting ready to appoint a random rival clan warrior (who never had an apprentice) to be his deputy. He believed that Onewhisker, a cat who has never shown a lick of ambition in his life, conspired to steal leadership from him. He chose to destabilize his entire clan and throw them into civil war over the matter, which made them far more vulnerable than Onestar being friendly with Firestar ever would.

I know the common argument is "well Onestar ended up being a bad leader blah blah", but Mudclaw had no legitimate basis to believe that at the time. He was going off entirely what Hawkfrost was feeding him, which is the idea that Onestar's leadership was somehow orchestrated by Firestar in order to control WindClan. It wasn't about the quality of Onestar's character. It was about his irrational loathing for Firestar as a successful rival clan leader (and lbr, a kittypet), Mudclaw's wounded ambition, and his egotistical belief that he was the only cat who could solve WindClan's problems.

Also, if Mudclaw was so hesitant to believe that Tallstar truly didn't strip his deputyship just before death, then he could have suggested that Onewhisker hold off receiving nine-lives until Barkface could confirm the truth with StarClan. (I know that they hadn't discovered the Moonpool yet, but Onewhisker couldn't receive his nine lives until they found the Moonstone replacement anyways). That's what a level-headed person would suggest. But Mudclaw was never reasonable, and instead decided to jump to mutiny as the answer. Even if his suspicion and offense was rightly placed, his response to the situation was nightmarish and proved Tallstar's point about how Mudclaw would never make a good leader.

I think this is the closest one yet.

Justified I guess. It's his life and he can do as he pleases...but he left behind his mate and sole surviving kit (who was already seemingly important to StarClan) and cheated, albeit unintentionally, Sunstar out of a life. He's allowed to live as he wants and retire to become a kittypet, but he executed it poorly. I know the idea of a leader stepping down wasn't really a thing back at that time (as in the series itself, not in-universe) but since we know it's possible, he should have gone to the Moonstone and done the proper ceremony as opposed to just...up and leaving. Hell, he didn't even plan to say goodbye, let alone announce it, until Lionheart convinced him.

leoprdfoot and the kits were barely surviving from birth and he just dips 😭😭 he wasn't wrong in theory but he should've done it way later like that was not the best time

Justified. Tigerkit was doomed the moment Goosefeather saw his future. By then Pinestar sticking around would've been a lost cause and quite honestly in reality a waste of pages.

Now if Pinestar stuck around and Goosefeather never once saw Tigerkit's future I do believe things would've turned out differently.

One one hand he left behind his mate and dying daughters (they were actually still alive when he left), and was planning to leave without telling anyone before Lionpaw forced him to.

On the other hand I can't blame him for wanting to leave. He was being told to kill his own son and wanting to retire was understandable, especially to a place he knew he would be safe. However he still left Tigerkit behind when he was told that he had to raise him right or he would destroy ThunderClan. And the fact that he was going to leave without a word is enough for me to call him unjustified.

There there's the thing with Sunstar, but I think that has more to do with the fact that the concept of leaders giving up their lives wasn't a thing yet, so I'm not going to put that against Pinestar at all.

Hmm that's a tricky one. While, yes, the truth deserved to come out; I don't agree with her letting the entirety of the Clans know.

Though at that point she was not well upstairs. She snapped under pressure and paid dearly for it.

Going to say unjustified overall as she was slightly justified in killing Ashfur from spilling the beans but went ahead and did it anyway. She then left her brothers to deal with the aftermath.

She was wrong but it was a entertaining read lol