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Post by Aqua on Jul 29, 2022 20:56:33 GMT -5
Why is Hollyleaf defended for killing Ashfur? She knew what she was doing and killed him in cold blood. She wasn't doing it to save her clan, but her reputation, and she admitted she left because of what she did. She was a coward. She only came back because Lionblaze told her to. I don't understand why people defend her actions because she was "mentally unstable".
And I can't forgive her for wanting to kill her own mother either. That's pretty messed up.
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Post by Punkpaw on Jul 29, 2022 21:32:46 GMT -5
If my sister told me she iced a murderous incel who had tried to kill her less than a month ago, I'd be taking her out to dinner to congratulate her regardless of reason.
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Post by kitters on Jul 29, 2022 21:53:20 GMT -5
he kinda deserved to die so I think thats why people give Hollyleaf a pass. Its a little hard to be mad about the death of someone who just wants to brutally kill people
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 22:15:25 GMT -5
If my sister told me she iced a murderous incel who had tried to kill her less than a month ago, I'd be taking her out to dinner to congratulate her regardless of reason. I better be invited
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 29, 2022 22:16:18 GMT -5
in hollyleaf's perspective, she defended and protected her family. in that way, it could be seen by some people as justified.
but on the other hand, killing a clan mate is awful and it's against the code (warriors dont need to kill to win battles, but since this was against another fellow clanmates, it's not the same level as a battle, but its still morally wrong to kill)
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Post by whiteflight on Jul 29, 2022 22:17:47 GMT -5
Why is Hollyleaf defended for killing Ashfur? She knew what she was doing and killed him in cold blood. She wasn't doing it to save her clan, but her reputation, and she admitted she left because of what she did. She was a coward. She only came back because Lionblaze told her to. I don't understand why people defend her actions because she was "mentally unstable". And I can't forgive her for wanting to kill her own mother either. That's pretty messed up. Well Ashfur did just recently try to kill her and her siblings so that's a pass. Plus a lot of people do hate/dislike him. Also the "mentally unstable" part does play a huge role (I don't think she was but I'll still talk about it). Being mentally unstable makes you not think correctly and makes you act out things you may regret in the future but all that matters to them is what's happening right now. The killing her own mother part plays a part on it too. Tons of teenagers and adults want to kill their parents and someone in their lifetime. Sometimes it's just hate that later goes away but other times it never leaves and that person can either do the action, seek help, or leave. As a person who was put into a mental hospital for one of the same reasons this is my take on it. There could be more since I'm not everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 22:20:24 GMT -5
I'm not about to excuse Hollyleaf for committing first-degree murder, but all I can say is that I understand her. Given that her victim was a creepy yandere who was obsessed with her adoptive mother and had literally just tried to kill her and her brothers, I can't blame her for wanting to kill him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 22:28:06 GMT -5
I don't think many people would argue that what she did was right, but I do think she learned from what she did and became a better person from that. During and after her novella, she put herself in danger multiple times to help her Clanmates and died fighting for the Clans,.
In my mind, I think her time down in the tunnels as the equivalent of serving jail time. She was isolated and pretty miserable, but she made the corrections that needed to be made and reformed herself. Why shouldn't she get a second chance? Obviously, in real life it is difficult to tell if a murderer has actually reformed themselves or if they are lying to get out of jail. But in Hollyleaf's case, it is pretty clear that she learned from her actions.
I think there are a few other reasons why people find her actions more forgivable than that of your average murderer:
1) We know that cats go to cat heaven, so it's not like Ashfur suffered much due to his death. He didn't have any strong reason to stay in the mortal world other than revenge. He wasn't particularly close with Ferncloud, he didn't have any mates or kits, and he didn't seem to have many friends. We later see him frolicking in StarClan. I'm not saying that murder is okay because of StarClan, but I'm trying to explain why some people might forgive his murder more easily than the murder of a character in another fictional universe.
2) We know that Ashfur is evil, so people are more willing to forgive Hollyleaf. It's a bit of a logical fallacy, since we didn't quite know how evil he was when he was killed, but I think it influences people nonetheless.
3) We get to experience Hollyleaf's POV throughout the series and are supposed to root for her through most of it. It's easier for people to forgive the protagonist of murder than it would a villain.
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Post by cheeselamps on Jul 30, 2022 3:47:35 GMT -5
I mean, killing is obviously wrong, but we must remember that Hollyleaf was already succumbing to her depression by that time; it led her to believe that she was doing the right thing, since she wanted to protect her convictions (and let's be honest, Ashfur is not much of a loss either way).
People who are that depressed are unable to think straight, specially when they're carrying the burden of such a big problem like finding out that your very existence contradicts all of your beliefs. So yeah, I think people emphatize with her mostly because of her mental breakdown aaand because Ashfur had it coming anyway. Though this topic is certainly more complex than it seems.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 30, 2022 10:28:28 GMT -5
I think forgiving her and sympathizing makes sense, but not defending her choice to murder.
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Post by Numquam on Jul 30, 2022 13:08:35 GMT -5
Her flaws and downfall is what makes her interesting.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jul 30, 2022 22:44:45 GMT -5
Tbh if someone just tried to burn me and my family alive, I'd probably kill them too ngl
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