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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 13:00:20 GMT -5
What's your opinion on them?
I've known this ship for one book but I'd already die for them
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 14:26:33 GMT -5
I like SpireFringe together but want to see a bit more development with their relationship, which I'm sure will happen over the course of ASC anyways. The same goes for ShellFern as well.
Hopefully, Berryheart will not somehow kill Fringewhisker off so that her son Spireclaw "can get with a proper ShadowClan mate instead" before their romance gets at least some more focus.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 24, 2022 14:32:37 GMT -5
random and unnecessary >:c i dont like it bc i am anti-forbidden relationship now and i am butthurt! berryheart was 100% right. forbidden relationships ruin the very foundation of the clans itself. if u take away the code forbidding it, the clans will fall apart instead of unite.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 14:35:02 GMT -5
It's fine.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 14:36:27 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ I think Berryheart is right in that the system for a cat to join is unfair, but I don't agree with her reasoning. The system will favor more athletically strong cats rather than intellectually, emotionally, or statically(ect.) strong cats.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 14:37:32 GMT -5
I'd also like to see some Sunbeam and Fringewhisker sisters-in-law moments, plz let them be friends in the next book
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 15:12:10 GMT -5
random and unnecessary >:c i dont like it bc i am anti-forbidden relationship now and i am butthurt! berryheart was 100% right. forbidden relationships ruin the very foundation of the clans itself. if u take away the code forbidding it, the clans will fall apart instead of unite. I already know you're not going to change your mind, but... not really? It's when the cat puts their personal feelings above their duties is when it becomes a problem, which is pretty much how the code even came about in the first place, because Ryewhisker was defending his (pregnant) mate from his Clanmate and got killed by one of Cloudberry's own. Never mind that the Clans were far more wild back then (ex: being allowed to kill in battle) compared to how they are now. Rules are created through experiences, but rules can also be amended or even become outdated. You can't help who you love, but you can choose what to do next. By officially allowing cats to switch Clans, this at least helps lessen any potential heartbreak, and best of all, no one gets to wage war over innocent kits that will just get judged by their Clanmates either way. The fact that Fringewhisker and Fernstripe and even Eaglestorm long before them chose to do something about it at all shows initiative, just like how Lionpaw chose to end things with Heatherpaw. And it's certainly better than hiding and deceiving everyone until it's too late, nor is it like the Clans will accept the new cat immediately, as the cat in question will have to do a trial first (whether or not the one we saw with Fringewhisker actually was too easy is a different story entirely). Not to mention the series has never exactly being subtle with it's message, as working together is the lesson that gets hammered into the reader literally every arc. At best, allowing cross-Clan relationships will just revert the Clans back to how they were when they first formed: open borders towards each other, but closed ones towards potential threats, something that had clearly worked to their benefit as far as DotC (obviously not including pre-SkyClan) is concerned. Also, the loyalty code is actually still there and it's still the first code! All the new addition does is make things slightly more lenient now. Besides, it's not like this is going to happen with every single cat ever, just a few every generation if the books themselves are anything to go by.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 15:12:31 GMT -5
I'd also like to see some Sunbeam and Fringewhisker sisters-in-law moments, plz let them be friends in the next book That SunFringe friendship would indeed be really nice to see. Oh no, I just had an interesting thought! What if ALL of the SparrowBerry kits end up in relationships formerly labeled as cross-Clan/forbidden romances? SpireFringe, NightSun (maybe, we'll see) and one for Hollowspring as well. Technically, their oldest kit Needletail also fits into this already too since she was about to become mates with Rain during AVoS before he died. Can you imagine how mad Berryheart would be if this actually ended up happening? If not in canon, then fanon is the way. AU time!
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Post by Rainfire on Jun 24, 2022 15:13:42 GMT -5
I already love them and I'm so scared something bad is going to happen to them. pls just let them happy together in the end. :c
And I too am hoping for some Sun/Fringe sister-in-law content; I'd looove to see them eventually become friends.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 15:16:00 GMT -5
Technically, their oldest kit Needletail also fits into this already too since she was about to become mates with Rain during AVoS before he died. Can you imagine how mad Berryheart would be if this actually ended up happening? Honestly, I'd argue that Berryheart is being so harsh precisely because of what happened with Needletail.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 15:22:24 GMT -5
Technically, their oldest kit Needletail also fits into this already too since she was about to become mates with Rain during AVoS before he died. Can you imagine how mad Berryheart would be if this actually ended up happening? Honestly, I'd argue that Berryheart is being so harsh precisely because of what happened with Needletail. That could be true and I would love for it to be confirmed by Berryheart herself at some point during ASC even though I'm also still hoping for her to become a full on villain but if not, then giving her some actual reasoning or a possible redemption if she already did something she might regret in hindsight, is an interesting concept as well for sure. Although I've got to wonder if she even knew about Needletail and Rain in that context of their budding romance.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 15:35:13 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd argue that Berryheart is being so harsh precisely because of what happened with Needletail. That could be true and I would love for it to be confirmed by Berryheart herself at some point during ASC even though I'm also still hoping for her to become a full on villain but if not, then giving her some actual reasoning or a possible redemption if she already did something she might regret in hindsight, is an interesting concept as well for sure. Although I've got to wonder if she even knew about Needletail and Rain in that context of their budding romance. Berryheart was one of the cats who left to join the Kin before they took over and Rain and Needletail weren't exactly being subtle over their feelings, so it's possible she managed to pick up on it since she theoretically would've interacted with both of them together at least at one point prior to Darktail attempting to drown her, whereas Fringewhisker was in an entirely different Clan until recently.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 24, 2022 15:43:08 GMT -5
It's alright? Not much of an opinion on it right now because of how little we've seen, but I'm assuming we'll see more of it further into the arc. Nice to see that Fringewhisker was dedicated enough to the relationship to swap. Spireclaw's also nice enough from what we've seen.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jun 24, 2022 15:43:31 GMT -5
That could be true and I would love for it to be confirmed by Berryheart herself at some point during ASC even though I'm also still hoping for her to become a full on villain but if not, then giving her some actual reasoning or a possible redemption if she already did something she might regret in hindsight, is an interesting concept as well for sure. Although I've got to wonder if she even knew about Needletail and Rain in that context of their budding romance. Berryheart was one of the cats who left to join the Kin before they took over and Rain and Needletail weren't exactly being subtle over their feelings, so it's possible she managed to pick up on it since she theoretically would've interacted with both of them together at least at one point prior to Darktail attempting to drown her, whereas Fringewhisker was in an entirely different Clan until recently. That's true. Berryheart also had that short comic at the end of Tigerheart's Shadow, right? I feel like she would even be fitting to get a possible novella one day if her role gets expanded on further in ASC. That way, her thoughts on NeedleRain (lowkey dig that name for an OC btw) could at least be mentioned in a chapter.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 24, 2022 15:45:22 GMT -5
Technically, their oldest kit Needletail also fits into this already too since she was about to become mates with Rain during AVoS before he died. Can you imagine how mad Berryheart would be if this actually ended up happening? Honestly, I'd argue that Berryheart is being so harsh precisely because of what happened with Needletail. This, and I feel she's so adamant about not changing the code because of what happened in AVoS. She's witnessed firsthand how a Clan fell apart and lived in a group herself with little regard for actual rules or policies. Berryheart has made those mistakes and doesn't want anyone else, let alone her kits, making them either.
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on Jun 24, 2022 15:48:22 GMT -5
I like FringexSpire so far, and hope nothing bad happens to either of them.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 24, 2022 15:53:28 GMT -5
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 If anything happens to specifically Fringewhisker I will be so sad
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 16:05:20 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd argue that Berryheart is being so harsh precisely because of what happened with Needletail. This, and I feel she's so adamant about not changing the code because of what happened in AVoS. She's witnessed firsthand how a Clan fell apart and lived in a group herself with little regard for actual rules or policies. Berryheart has made those mistakes and doesn't want anyone else, let alone her kits, making them either. Exactly! And honestly, that just makes her into even more of an interesting character in my eyes! The fact that her own leader is half-Clan, was also in a half-Clan relationship, and two of those same leader's kits (be it directly or indirectly) have caused so much trouble already can't possibly be improving her opinion, either. In fact, it's possible she thinks that Fringewhisker's task was too easy Tigerstar would be expected to be bias (again, whether this is truly the case or not is a different story entirely).
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 24, 2022 16:28:51 GMT -5
This, and I feel she's so adamant about not changing the code because of what happened in AVoS. She's witnessed firsthand how a Clan fell apart and lived in a group herself with little regard for actual rules or policies. Berryheart has made those mistakes and doesn't want anyone else, let alone her kits, making them either. Exactly! And honestly, that just makes her into even more of an interesting character in my eyes! The fact that her own leader is half-Clan, was also in a half-Clan relationship, and two of those same leader's kits (be it directly or indirectly) have caused so much trouble already can't possibly be improving her opinion, either. In fact, it's possible she thinks that Fringewhisker's task was too easy Tigerstar would be expected to be bias (again, whether this is truly the case or not is a different story entirely). I can really see that being the case! Not that Berryheart's exactly got the moral high ground because of it of course, but given her experiences with the Kin and how guilty she felt about leaving ShadowClan, her stance about not changing the code makes her wildly more of a compelling character. She herself says in the book that leaving for the Kin was her biggest mistake, and she takes value in being a true ShadowClan warrior. After Fringewhisker passes her test of loyalty, Berryheart goes on a small tangent about loyalty and not having a paw in two worlds (referencing Fringewhisker and the potential future SpireFringe kits). Funnily enough, Sparrowtail of all cats seems to disagree with Berryheart too. Then she talks about how while Tigerstar will see how much damage switching Clans can cause when a ShadowClan warrior wants to leave, and figures he'll come to his senses. Berryheart later tells Sunbeam that all she wants is unity and peace in the Clans without divided loyalties. Stands to reason that with her past experiences regarding things like pride and loyalty, it's natural character development. I'm actually really interested in how it's all going to play out. Berryheart did bond with Tigerstar in his SE and has been supportive of him thus far anyways. Maybe an unpopular opinion? But I'd rather not see her as an antagonist. She can still be critical of Tigerstar though. Guess we'll see more of it later in the arc.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 16:49:01 GMT -5
Exactly! And honestly, that just makes her into even more of an interesting character in my eyes! The fact that her own leader is half-Clan, was also in a half-Clan relationship, and two of those same leader's kits (be it directly or indirectly) have caused so much trouble already can't possibly be improving her opinion, either. In fact, it's possible she thinks that Fringewhisker's task was too easy Tigerstar would be expected to be bias (again, whether this is truly the case or not is a different story entirely). I can really see that being the case! Not that Berryheart's exactly got the moral high ground because of it of course, but given her experiences with the Kin and how guilty she felt about leaving ShadowClan, her stance about not changing the code makes her wildly more of a compelling character. She herself says in the book that leaving for the Kin was her biggest mistake, and she takes value in being a true ShadowClan warrior. After Fringewhisker passes her test of loyalty, Berryheart goes on a small tangent about loyalty and not having a paw in two worlds (referencing Fringewhisker and the potential future SpireFringe kits). Funnily enough, Sparrowtail of all cats seems to disagree with Berryheart too. Then she talks about how while Tigerstar will see how much damage switching Clans can cause when a ShadowClan warrior wants to leave, and figures he'll come to his senses. Berryheart later tells Sunbeam that all she wants is unity and peace in the Clans without divided loyalties. Stands to reason that with her past experiences regarding things like pride and loyalty, it's natural character development. I'm actually really interested in how it's all going to play out. Berryheart did bond with Tigerstar in his SE and has been supportive of him thus far anyways. Maybe an unpopular opinion? But I'd rather not see her as an antagonist. She can still be critical of Tigerstar though. Guess we'll see more of it later in the arc. It can go either way for me, but if she does end up becoming a villain, I just hope it doesn't turn into another "this character is an antagonist, so everything they say is automatically wrong" sort of thing. Also, Cloverfoot is Berryheart's sister, so I wonder if that'll play into anything in some way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5
random and unnecessary >:c i dont like it bc i am anti-forbidden relationship now and i am butthurt! berryheart was 100% right. forbidden relationships ruin the very foundation of the clans itself. if u take away the code forbidding it, the clans will fall apart instead of unite. It's not even forbidden anymore That's like The whole point :v (Also, I wouldn't consider it to be random nor unnecessary, it's looking to be a significant part of Sunbeam's plot :0 )
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 24, 2022 17:40:29 GMT -5
random and unnecessary >:c i dont like it bc i am anti-forbidden relationship now and i am butthurt! berryheart was 100% right. forbidden relationships ruin the very foundation of the clans itself. if u take away the code forbidding it, the clans will fall apart instead of unite. It's not even forbidden anymore That's like The whole point :v (Also, I wouldn't consider it to be random nor unnecessary, it's looking to be a significant part of Sunbeam's plot :0 )
Or at least Nightheart's, given the theories that he might switch Clans at some point (regardless of any feelings for Sunbeam) and doesn't feel very attached to ThunderClan anyway. But yeah, it's not so much forbidden now as it is cautioned against since, again, the first code is still a thing, but if you do have divided loyalties, then you better do something about it now rather than later. Calling it the very foundation of the Clans also seems a bit much, since as we see with DotC, this isn't really the case at all throughout the entire arc, unless you count Clear Sky getting greedy and paranoid. In fact, this is the context for the separation:
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Post by Flamefrost on Jun 24, 2022 18:48:47 GMT -5
Like so far, but yea we don't know much about them yet.
I do think the current "conversion process" is really too simple though. I don't understand why SkyClan didn't just suggest the type of trial they used for daylight warriors, where it's assessment over a couple moons.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 24, 2022 23:28:38 GMT -5
Neutral.
Only because I want to see how this fully plays out.
However, the only reason I disliked cross-clan relationships was because it was quite selfish when a cat put another cat from a different clan above their duties and loyalties. It's completely different if they're being honest, and changing allegiances, it saves everyone time, and prevents unnecessary drama tbh. It's like switching nations, but legally, and to be with the person you love. That's fine.
If the said cats pass the terms and conditions set out for them, and then pledge their new loyalty to their new clan, I see nothing wrong with that. If anything I'd be more offended at the clans for not being accepting if they did it through the legitimate and honest way.
I get having rules to prevent disloyalty, that's fine. But what Berryheart is trying to do it control her children's lives, and who they end up with, it's gross. She sounds like one of those horrible parents who claim they're doing what's best for their child, but in reality doesn't know anything about them, and what actually makes them happy. I agree with the fact that you can't help who you fall in love with, but what you do after is a choice, however Berryheart and these other bags of furs are trying to control who cats love, and its uncomfortable.
Even if the clans deny them being together, then what's stopping them from just running away? I know I would in that position, if my clan denied me even if I did it through legitimate means, and passed their terms like they said. If they still denied me, then they're just dishonorable liars, and I'd rather just leave with my mate at that point. Then the clans lose two (or more) warriors then. It's not like they could stop me either, what will they do, forcibly make me stay? Or try guilt tactics despite what they just did? Hmph.
Imo, Fringe and Spire deserve to be happy. And if Berryheart and those other old losers want to be salty over it, they can do it somewhere else, just leave Fringe and Spire alone.
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Post by mintyfang1840 on Jun 25, 2022 2:16:33 GMT -5
I don’t know much about this ship yet, but I think I’m already starting to love it. So far their interactions were cute, and I would really like to see more development. Berryheart should let spirefringe alone.
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Post by uknownmango on Jul 2, 2022 1:59:37 GMT -5
Fringewhisker and Spireclaw sounds like a healthy relationship, but Fernstripe and Shellfur sound like the oppisite for me.
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Post by Spooky Alice on Jul 2, 2022 14:18:39 GMT -5
I think its fine and cute. I look forward to seeing how it plays out in the future.
The forbidden romance thing was primarily annoying because the clans are so interchangeable. Yeah sure loyalty to the clan but culturally they're fundamentally all the same. It mostly just existed for drama and I'm glad they're doing Something about it
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Post by Punkpaw on Jul 2, 2022 14:24:34 GMT -5
They're cute. Pity about Spireclaw's Trump supporter mom, though. Guess that will be an interesting challenge to watch them work through.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Jul 2, 2022 18:48:06 GMT -5
They're cute. Pity about Spireclaw's Trump supporter mom, though. Guess that will be an interesting challenge to watch them work through. That's a very unnecessary comment.
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