|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Mar 26, 2022 6:23:20 GMT -5
I don't know... I feel like the recent books have been too fast-paced or just generally disconnected from the feeling i would get from reading the older books. I feel like in the beginning they focused a lot on clan life, cats sharing tounges, bonding, and StarClan would be even shocking to think about-- i saw them as fascinating and mighty, full of wise and all-knowing cats. Like deities, and they were so mysterious. I miss when the cats used to talk about them with respect, and were even scared of going against their rules. I miss when the warrior code were a set of rules highly respected and honored. I miss when we would get slice-of-life parts in the series, i loved seeing clan life and all. And battles were even exciting to think about, the skirmishes were exciting. Hell, the gatherings were so cool- The daylight gathering, cats interacting before news were shared, elders telling stories to apprentices from different clans... The older chararcters (Squirrelflight, Bramblestar, Firestar, Blackstar, Mistystar, Leopardstar, Dovewing, Ivypool, Minnowtail...) also had a feeling to them that i don't get with the newer protagonists. I don't know, just so many new names in the Clans (Spotfur, Stemleaf, Shellfur, Fringewhisker, Shadowsight, Fernstripe, Sunbeam, etc) it feels like a different series.
Maybe i just can't move on. But now it just feels disconnected. I don't know if i'm just feeling old and nostalgic and unable to move on, but now StarClan cats are shown as wrong and corrupted, they aren't even written well, the plot moves too quickly, the characters i loved are dying or losing their personality, the plot is too different from the ones that made me fall in love with the books, things are changing so fast...
I feel old. End of rant.
|
|
|
Post by Flanoir on Mar 26, 2022 6:59:04 GMT -5
I relate tbh, and I say that as someone who likes the first half of TBC, and what we've seen of River. AVoS I felt was okay in that regard, but TBC+River are more of an over the top combo. The thing is that, put together, they look more like an unlikely succession of overblown events. Basically, average development for a series like Warriors, but cool stuff as far as entertainment goes. I'm quite enthusiastic for the next books nonetheless. Still, I'll probably appreciate TBC+River more in hindsight if we get something tamer in the future, to balance things out.
|
|
|
Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 26, 2022 7:37:28 GMT -5
I feel like that, too. I still enjoy the new books, but I feel the writing style has really gone down, especially in comparison to the first series.
The battles were so much cooler, the characters felt a lot more feline-like, StarClan was actually mysterious and esteemed, and the background characters, for the most part, had a face to their name (actually had a semblance of personality). I feel like nowadays cats are always sitting around, arguing, debating, rebelling, disagreeing, almost all talk and hardly any action, and the action itself feels kind of lame with the main protagonists often chilling and just observing the battle rather than participating in it.
This being said, I did enjoy TBC, the latest arc, but I definitely agree with you, Pipp Petals. The writing, imo, was far superior in the earlier books.
|
|
|
Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Mar 26, 2022 7:47:04 GMT -5
Tbh the series took a major nosedive after Firestar's death. It hasn't felt the same since he died.
|
|
Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
|
Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Mar 26, 2022 8:01:17 GMT -5
I agree to a major extent (especially about how everything is so incredibly fast paced these days and not in a good way) but also cannot look away or abandon this series now since I'm still curious on how it ends (if it ever does). Here's to hoping that ASC will be the last arc in the modern timeline for a while or entirely and any arcs following it will either take place in the past or future. The story these days also feels way more plot than character driven since TBC (even if they seem to be trying with at least one of the new protagonists).
I miss the era when Firestar was still alive and the vibe of the first four arcs with their better concepts. Even if nothing was ever really perfect back then either. But it did not need to be.
|
|
|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Mar 26, 2022 8:16:42 GMT -5
Tbh the series took a major nosedive after Firestar's death. It hasn't felt the same since he died. I feel like the fandom and the series was at it's peak at The Power of three and Omen of the stars, and after those series finished it went a bit downhill, imo. That dosen't mean i don't like the current books, but i feel like they've changed so much.
|
|
|
Post by kells on Mar 26, 2022 8:38:08 GMT -5
My heart aches for the days when the culture used to be something explored. Like Rusty himself, I was in awe at the concept of the Clans. The snakerocks with its dangerous adders, the sunningrocks that ThunderClan and RiverClan fought for every ounce of their being, because territory was just that important to staying alive. The hardened, noble feel of the senior warriors such as Lionheart, Bluestar and Whitestorm. Sharing tongues was a thing, greencough was a danger. Remember yellowcough and redcough? Remember the entire journey for the catmint? The environment was interacted with. Characters formed cliques and actually had personality.
I can only count three deaths I remember in TBC. Ashfur, Stemleaf, and Bristlefrost. No names like Leafshade and Hollytuft exist to make the Clans bigger. Concepts are in furry territory in terms of characterization. Mortality does not exist anymore. The books are so heavily manipulated and dragged on because of what the writers or editors want, rather than what the story needs. Plot armor is thicker than ever before, StarClan is utter garbage as of now, and the Clan culture that used to be mentioned and brought up no longer exists. Every plot point is some third-party villain that swoops in so we can see the Clan unite and beat them up for the millionth time. Granted, the original arc did the same, but that was only in the very last book. The five other books showed real conflict between Clans.
God, I still cringe at the judgment scene in Squirrelflight's Hope. A prime example of how the series degraded.
It just doesn't have that magical feeling anymore.
Or, maybe it's because I'm not 10 anymore.
Either way, I just miss the first arc.
|
|
|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Mar 26, 2022 10:58:53 GMT -5
My heart aches for the days when the culture used to be something explored. Like Rusty himself, I was in awe at the concept of the Clans. The snakerocks with its dangerous adders, the sunningrocks that ThunderClan and RiverClan fought for every ounce of their being, because territory was just that important to staying alive. The hardened, noble feel of the senior warriors such as Lionheart, Bluestar and Whitestorm. Sharing tongues was a thing, greencough was a danger. Remember yellowcough and redcough? Remember the entire journey for the catmint? The environment was interacted with. Characters formed cliques and actually had personality. I can only count three deaths I remember in TBC. Ashfur, Stemleaf, and Bristlefrost. No names like Leafshade and Hollytuft exist to make the Clans bigger. Concepts are in furry territory in terms of characterization. Mortality does not exist anymore. The books are so heavily manipulated and dragged on because of what the writers or editors want, rather than what the story needs. Plot armor is thicker than ever before, StarClan is utter garbage as of now, and the Clan culture that used to be mentioned and brought up no longer exists. Every plot point is some third-party villain that swoops in so we can see the Clan unite and beat them up for the millionth time. Granted, the original arc did the same, but that was only in the very last book. The five other books showed real conflict between Clans. God, I still cringe at the judgment scene in Squirrelflight's Hope. A prime example of how the series degraded. It just doesn't have that magical feeling anymore. Or, maybe it's because I'm not 10 anymore. Either way, I just miss the first arc. Agreed. Here's an experiment: Whitout searching anything up, name something significant Leafshade did or said. What about Hollytuft? Now name somehting Thornclaw did. What about Whitewing? What about Dustpelt? And Brightheart? Hell, Even Swiftpaw has something to be remembered for. I miss character-driven books, were even the background characters had some personality to them.
|
|
|
Post by ᴋᴀᴛɴɪꜱꜱ on Mar 26, 2022 11:56:52 GMT -5
This might be a controversial opinion, but I think they introduced to many POV’s from different clans, making the pacing difficult for the new books to have the same charm and character development the older series had. While it is good to have diversity in clans that are being focused on. I wish they would focus on only one (max two) clan each series.
|
|
Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
|
Post by Cloudstorm on Mar 26, 2022 12:09:52 GMT -5
The expressive personality, communicative prose, literary writing style, you get the idea. Just never clicked as well with me as Victoria’s, which is the #1 most important part of any piece of literature and is the defining factor on whether you’ll find a series enjoyable or not. If the dialogue and writing style is a slog to read through, chances are you won’t be enjoying yourself very much.
And as others have mentioned. The cultures aren’t explored much anymore, the territories, bonding and genuine friendships and interaction between characters that isn’t entirely some deliberate plot-driven scene to force the plot forward. Slice-of-life moments are nonexistent (remember the scene with the Honeycomb with the apprentices in PoT? The scene Jaypaw put nectar in Squirrelflight’s herbs to make them more palatable? Dustpelt showing his softer side after Jayfeather alleviates his back pain, HollyxJayxLion playfighting, tousling and behaving like actual siblings, even well into adulthood? Yeah I miss those). When Starclan was mysterious and held with esteemed, and treated like they had wisdom? Without constantly medddling and interfering all the time. When the world actually felt like a feral, wild feline world, infused with some humanized characteristics to make them more relatable to the audience, while still maintaining their animalistic nature.
Nowadays with how the books are written. with Starclan being written in a contrived manner to depict them as morally ambiguous, wrong and egotistical garbage. And everyone constantly arguing and disagreeing and debating over political and religious matters that feel more human. Makes the books feel more like a Human Political & Religious melodrama as opposed to a series about Wild cats with some slices of fantasy and spirituality on the side.
In short: feels more like documentary series trying to capture the problems and issues of the real world, instead of being it’s own fictional universe that’s meant to be an escapism from the problems of reality.
|
|
|
Post by Emeraldripple on Mar 26, 2022 15:22:16 GMT -5
I know this is probably a controversial take, but I like that Starclan has become a little more demystified. Part of the intrigue surrounding them in the earlier series comes from readers not knowing many characters who have died yet, whereas now we've gone through several generations and Starclan contains a lot more familiar faces. I think it makes narrative sense that certain conflict would continue even after death, and it stops Starclan from feeling like this distant stagnant force.
|
|
|
Post by Hollyfall on Mar 26, 2022 21:06:09 GMT -5
It just doesn't have that magical feeling anymore. Or, maybe it's because I'm not 10 anymore. Either way, I just miss the first arc. Arcs 1-4 just had a certain...charm to them? I admit I've been liking TBC and recent books around then but they just...feel different as opposed to the older ones. I'm not sure how much of it is the new writing team taking over for Vicky or like you said; it's just because we're not kids anymore and we're viewing the series differently. Either way, the older books (especially the first arc) hit different. As much as I like the newer books, the older ones just had a different feeling. And I miss that.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenwish on Mar 26, 2022 22:12:06 GMT -5
This might be a controversial opinion, but I think they introduced to many POV’s from different clans, making the pacing difficult for the new books to have the same charm and character development the older series had. While it is good to have diversity in clans that are being focused on. I wish they would focus on only one (max two) clan each series. I agree with this. With protagonists from three different clans in a single book now, they only have a third as many chapters to focus on a single group of characters. Inevitably, that means that those chapters are going to be a lot more focused on driving forward the plot, since significant plot advances have to happen in all three clans by the end of the book. As a result of this, the pace feels faster but little room is left over for the deep characterization and feel-good (although not necessarily plot-essential) scenes we saw in earlier arcs. I also think it makes it easier to "excuse" a character being way out of character (like a lot of the older characters have been in recent arcs), since we only see them for a third as many chapters so the writers can almost try to hide it better in that sense (of course it doesn't really work).
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Mar 26, 2022 22:39:20 GMT -5
honestly i think part of it is the scale of antagonism. in the original series, Tigerstar was the main villain, but his villainy revolved around only ThunderClan for most of the arc. It’s not until the ADP (I think) that Tigerstar’s plots start to incorporate other clans on a large scale, which creates a very nice rising stakes effect in the last few books. But he starts out as a very local threat first; the danger is primarily to ThunderClan for the first four books of the story, and then evolves from there as a natural consequence of Tigerstar’s thwarted ambitions.
Ever since then —especially from OOTS on— the respective arcs’ main antagonists have been from early on multi-clan threats (Hawkfrost, Darktail, Ashfur, etc). It might be a Dragon Ball Z effect, idk, but I think the result is that actions of grand-scale antagonism feel less…intimate, I suppose, for the reader. Like we dont get to see the threat slowly build up over time, it’s also been a supernatural threat for the last 3 arcs, and that (at least to me) makes it feel less “immersive”.
|
|
|
Post by ivysaur on Mar 26, 2022 22:53:46 GMT -5
I think the Warriors series would be better off being a bunch of standalone books similar to Discworld. I really like the super editions because of this - just a snapshot of life in the Warriors world without some grand overarching plot that forces each book to one up each other to raise the stakes. The universe would be better utilized in depth with slice of life stories since we can actually see clan life and what it means to individual characters vs jumping around between disconnected POVs.
|
|
|
Post by lionroar on Mar 27, 2022 4:26:02 GMT -5
I think the Warriors series would be better off being a bunch of standalone books similar to Discworld. I really like the super editions because of this - just a snapshot of life in the Warriors world without some grand overarching plot that forces each book to one up each other to raise the stakes. The universe would be better utilized in depth with slice of life stories since we can actually see clan life and what it means to individual characters vs jumping around between disconnected POVs. This. Some of the Super Editions are my favourite books in the series. The specificity of the scope and the intimate character-driven moments are much more enjoyable to read than a book from 3 clans filled only with plot-driving material. Being able to really feel like a member of Tallstar’s Windclan, or to be able to empathize with Crookedkit/paw/jaw was awesome. That feeling isn’t present in the more recent arcs. I think it kind of ended for me with OoTS, but even that’s pushing it. DoTC, TPB, TNP and TPoT are what really feel like the Warriors series. The newer stuff isn’t the same. Maybe it’s nostalgia.
|
|
|
Post by Flanoir on Mar 27, 2022 4:53:55 GMT -5
It's not necessarily a nostalgia thing. I've been into Warriors for only two years now. I'll turn 28 soon. Only six months passed between the moment I started TPB and when I caught up with the main, current timeline series, which was halfway through TBC back then. The difference was clear as day. Same when I finally read DoTC last Summer, it felt more like Warriors than the current stuff. I still like most of TBC though, I just don't want that type of narrative structure to become a long-term thing for such a series. So yeah, it's not just a matter of longtime fans being whiny.
|
|
Omnisexual
Fernflower
I forgot how amazing Firestar is
|
Post by Fernflower on Mar 27, 2022 20:53:39 GMT -5
This might be a controversial opinion, but I think they introduced to many POV’s from different clans, making the pacing difficult for the new books to have the same charm and character development the older series had. While it is good to have diversity in clans that are being focused on. I wish they would focus on only one (max two) clan each series. 100% agree. They could barely develop every cat in ThunderClan back during POT/OOTS. Now they have multiple clans to worry about with like 3x the amount of cats. While it's fun seeing how the different clans live different lives, it makes it harder to have both a good plot and personalities for every single character.
|
|