|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Dec 14, 2020 16:22:37 GMT -5
i'm waiting for leopardstar's SE, so in the meantime, let us discuss her as a leader. do you think she did a good job or a bad job? do u think she should have died earlier or later? did her death affect you?
i don't even remember her as a leader tbh. all i can think about is mistystar way overstaying her welcome in the series (bc she should have died arcs and arcs ago, meanwhile leopardstar died in oots...just a bit over an arc of living in the lake territory...)
i do hope to see her struggles from her POV so i can maybe appreciate or see her differently. bc right now im kinda indifferent to her.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Dec 14, 2020 16:45:29 GMT -5
It takes an extremely poor leader to be ordering the deaths of your own deputy and apprentices. She didn't get better from there either, only changing sides when it became convenient and her cowardly tail realized she was on the losing side. She was the most stubborn and obstinate leader when it came to leaving the forest in TNP, and considered Onestar's insane logic in Power of Three to actually make sense given she was allied with him. Oh, and the cherry on top is her hoarding of water in OOTS, because Leopardstar is just so terrible that she can't go a single arc without doing something relentlessly selfish and self-destructive.
Leopardstar is pretty much the worst of all the modern leaders barring outright villains, she is just awful. At least the actions of other leaders can be justified by at least helping their clan or having good intentions, but Leopardstar can't even claim that, as she causes her own clan just as much damage as some villains. Leopardstar is the reason that Onestar can wipe his brow and say "I might be a fool, but at least I'm not so useless and cowardly as Leopardstar."
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 17:02:39 GMT -5
my least fav one because she caused the death of one of my fav characters
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Dec 14, 2020 17:30:36 GMT -5
I think her and Onestar share the trait of “Well-respected and dedicated leaders to their clans and their clans alone but awful at outside cooperation and understanding.” Aka, they led their clans well and put their clans first, but were awful at looking at the bigger picture and swallowing their pride.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Dec 14, 2020 17:39:41 GMT -5
I think her and Onestar share the trait of “Well-respected and dedicated leaders to their clans and their clans alone but awful at outside cooperation and understanding.” Aka, they led their clans well and put their clans first, but were awful at looking at the bigger picture and swallowing their pride. That doesn't even apply to Leopardstar though. She destroyed Riverclan in the first arc by turning it into a dump for Shadowclan and letting Shadowclan murder Riverclanners at a whim, and in PoT she thrust herself into the affairs of a clan whose borders she doesn't even touch for seemingly no good reason. She was awful for Riverclan too, not just other clans.
|
|
|
Post by Lizard 🦎 on Dec 14, 2020 17:49:23 GMT -5
At the start of her leadership, I thought she was very narrow-minded and a bit of an idiot for ordering the deaths of her deputy and two apprentices. But I came to respect her more as the series went on, and she does regret and apologizes for what she did to Feathertail and Stormfur in Feathertail's manga. I do think she's very loyal to her Clan first, and others next. I like Leopardstar. RiverClan did prosper in her leadership, so I voted good.
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Dec 14, 2020 17:58:48 GMT -5
I think her and Onestar share the trait of “Well-respected and dedicated leaders to their clans and their clans alone but awful at outside cooperation and understanding.” Aka, they led their clans well and put their clans first, but were awful at looking at the bigger picture and swallowing their pride. That doesn't even apply to Leopardstar though. She destroyed Riverclan in the first arc by turning it into a dump for Shadowclan and letting Shadowclan murder Riverclanners at a whim, and in PoT she thrust herself into the affairs of a clan whose borders she doesn't even touch for seemingly no good reason. She was awful for Riverclan too, not just other clans. I was more referring to them near the later years of their leadership. Everyone knows the garbage things Leopardstar did in the first series. What I’m saying is that her entire mentality after that was what she could do for Riverclan and only Riverclan, whether it was a good decision or not. In her mind, it might have been, and many Riverclan cats did respect and obey her after the first arc. She didn’t care for the other clans at all, but as bad of a leader she was, I’m not going to pretend like she wasn’t fiercely loyal to Riverclan and Riverclan alone. I’m honestly neutral on her, mostly until I read her POV and decide if she’s worth liking or not lmao
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Dec 14, 2020 18:04:31 GMT -5
I don't really remember anything notable Leopardstar did during her leadership, good or bad, so I'm going with neutral. But I'm adding some bad to that too because your personality affects your leadership choices and Leopardstar's personality and leadership choices, at least in the first and second arcs, isn't great.
|
|
|
Post by Ivyfalcon on Dec 14, 2020 18:16:02 GMT -5
I agree with vectoring34, she’s a bad leader. Regardless of whether or not she was trying to do things for the benefit of RiverClan, she made poor choices that negatively impacted her clan, and she never really got that much better.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Dec 14, 2020 18:27:36 GMT -5
What's funny is that I was reading a post about Leopardstar earlier that basically analyzed her actions.
As for me, I don't care for her or her leadership, but I do find her to be a rather fascinating character nonetheless.
|
|
|
Post by Cheetahstar on Dec 14, 2020 18:35:41 GMT -5
utter g ar bage
letting some other clan kill your deputy after he tried to stand up against killing children?
im sorry but yeah you can't really come back from that
my issue with Blackstar too
they just
get away with it
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Dec 14, 2020 19:18:59 GMT -5
utter g ar bage
letting some other clan kill your deputy after he tried to stand up against killing children?
im sorry but yeah you can't really come back from that
my issue with Blackstar too
they just
get away with it
i forgot that blackstar's getting a novella. he is, right? since both of these leaders r getting content on them, maybe we can see what inner struggles they had from the aftermath of tigerstar, tigerclan, and bloodclan.
|
|
|
Post by Card against Humanity on Dec 14, 2020 20:17:34 GMT -5
she's definitely a bad leader for the tigerclan stuff. she literally let tigerstar murder her deputy because she had a crush on him
as far as "firestar era" leaders go though I still think onestar is worse because leopardstar was only awful for one arc, after that she mostly faded into the background and occasionally popped back up to be annoying when the writers remembered she existed. onestar was consistently one of the most unbearable characters the erins ever conceived right up until his death.
|
|
|
Post by halogen on Dec 14, 2020 20:43:52 GMT -5
It takes an extremely poor leader to be ordering the deaths of your own deputy and apprentices. She didn't get better from there either, only changing sides when it became convenient and her cowardly tail realized she was on the losing side. She was the most stubborn and obstinate leader when it came to leaving the forest in TNP, and considered Onestar's insane logic in Power of Three to actually make sense given she was allied with him. Oh, and the cherry on top is her hoarding of water in OOTS, because Leopardstar is just so terrible that she can't go a single arc without doing something relentlessly selfish and self-destructive. Leopardstar is pretty much the worst of all the modern leaders barring outright villains, she is just awful. At least the actions of other leaders can be justified by at least helping their clan or having good intentions, but Leopardstar can't even claim that, as she causes her own clan just as much damage as some villains. Leopardstar is the reason that Onestar can wipe his brow and say "I might be a fool, but at least I'm not so useless and cowardly as Leopardstar." In defense of Leopardstar being stubborn in TNP, remember that the twolegs weren't doing much in RiverClan territory, while they were starting to somewhat threaten it in the end, the territory was still mostly intact even way later when Graystripe went back to the old territory during his manga. It's very understandable that one would not want to leave the perfectly fine home your Clan has lived in for time immemorial just because some other territories are getting threatened, and the Clans are supposed to stick together because of tradition or whatever. Imagine if you lived in a town, and then there was a toxic chemical leak in the next town over that forced everyone to evacuate, but it left yours basically unaffected. Wouldn't you be annoyed if people were telling you that everyone in your town had to leave too, just because it was tradition for the two towns to be neighbors? She'd learned her lesson about putting ideals of unity above her own Clan's actual well-being. And the OOTS water hoarding was when she was dying and going pretty senile. Though there's no excuse for siding with Onestar in POT.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 21:14:14 GMT -5
leopardstar when she hasnt commited an act of unprovoked violence or hostility against the other clans during the current arc
|
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Dec 14, 2020 21:32:07 GMT -5
It takes an extremely poor leader to be ordering the deaths of your own deputy and apprentices. She didn't get better from there either, only changing sides when it became convenient and her cowardly tail realized she was on the losing side. She was the most stubborn and obstinate leader when it came to leaving the forest in TNP, and considered Onestar's insane logic in Power of Three to actually make sense given she was allied with him. Oh, and the cherry on top is her hoarding of water in OOTS, because Leopardstar is just so terrible that she can't go a single arc without doing something relentlessly selfish and self-destructive. Leopardstar is pretty much the worst of all the modern leaders barring outright villains, she is just awful. At least the actions of other leaders can be justified by at least helping their clan or having good intentions, but Leopardstar can't even claim that, as she causes her own clan just as much damage as some villains. Leopardstar is the reason that Onestar can wipe his brow and say "I might be a fool, but at least I'm not so useless and cowardly as Leopardstar." In defense of Leopardstar being stubborn in TNP, remember that the twolegs weren't doing much in RiverClan territory, while they were starting to somewhat threaten it in the end, the territory was still mostly intact even way later when Graystripe went back to the old territory during his manga. It's very understandable that one would not want to leave the perfectly fine home your Clan has lived in for time immemorial just because some other territories are getting threatened, and the Clans are supposed to stick together because of tradition or whatever. Imagine if you lived in a town, and then there was a toxic chemical leak in the next town over that forced everyone to evacuate, but it left yours basically unaffected. Wouldn't you be annoyed if people were telling you that everyone in your town had to leave too, just because it was tradition for the two towns to be neighbors? She'd learned her lesson about putting ideals of unity above her own Clan's actual well-being. And the OOTS water hoarding was when she was dying and going pretty senile. Though there's no excuse for siding with Onestar in POT. Around the time that the neighboring town's toxic leak is poisoning your food and you still declare we will just "hunt new prey" (actual quote from Leopardstar), it's going beyond the point of being reasonable and into Leopardstar's classic pants-on-head levels of ineptitude. Their primary food source had stopped flowing, proving that the other clans' claims were true, and Leopardstar's only response was less than great. More to the point, the lesson learned in the last arc was in fact that the clans needed each other, as with Lionclan defeating Bloodclan. If Leopardstar understood the message as disregarding unity due to Tigerclan, then that's on her for confusing unity with domination. While it's true she was an old mess in OOTS, it does still fall under the tenure of her leadership and unlike Bluestar, it doesn't seem like she actually had any kind of psychotic break. It seems more so just like her typical self doing what she's always done. Unless the new book reveals she did have a breakdown, I don't think there's a reason to give her a pass on that one just because she was old.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 22:37:45 GMT -5
I agree with everything Vectoring34 said, Leopardstar is a terrible leader, not only to the other clans, but to her own clan as well. I don't give a rat's ass about what excuse she has, like, instead of selling out her clan, she could have swallowed her pride and gotten help from ThunderClan, what was Firestar gonna do? Tell her to f off? Not to mention, how she teamed up with Onestar, to attack ThunderClan. Terrible leader, terrible cat, Mudfur is probably rolling in his grave, 3/10.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 15, 2020 1:36:06 GMT -5
Outside of the Tigerstar incident not long after she became leader, she did tolerably fine. She enforced the code and led her clan, even if she wasn't rainbows and sunshine with the other clans.
|
|
|
Post by Rainfire on Dec 15, 2020 2:05:22 GMT -5
Bad leader imo. Still love her as character, though.
|
|