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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 18:46:23 GMT -5
Hi y'all
Did you know Darkstar of SkyClan sucks and deserves to be called the worst Clan Leader ever? Did you know that they caused a Domino Effect that effected SkyClan so badly it almost died off? Wondering what in the world I'm talking about?
Well this page is a discussion of Worst things the Warriors series has made that has maybe affected not the book specifically, but the Clans' way of living and what you/we/us would've done to change it or improve.
Tell me some gripes, and I would love to join in on your thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:54:36 GMT -5
pinestars addition to the code is actual trash. tigerstar scolding his clanmates for digging for scraps when they were literally starving to death was so, so stupid. the clans already have too much pride to function, now they have a code saying “if you starve, you starve, bitch”
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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 19:07:33 GMT -5
So to get to my intro post and what the heck I was talking about. I think Darkstar of SkyClan (introduced in Code of The Clans) is the worst leader possible and most likely worst of SkyClan's. Darkstar was the one to introduce Code 13 "The word of the Clan leader is the Warrior Code." Of which many people don't like already. The Code is stupid and easily exploitable. BUT- What makes it worse is it was the indirect cause of SkyClan leaving the old Forest territory back then when Cloudstar was the past-current leader.To refresh you all- Darkstar made the code on the whim to help defend their awful decision to give ThunderClan a good size chunk of land. And when time passed, the Two-Legs moved in and chose SkyClan territory to build their new neighborhood. And when SkyClan needed a place to stay, they weren't welcome anywhere. And they had nowhere to go but somewhere far from the forest. But to think... what if they didn't give that good chunk of land to ThunderClan? Couldn't they go there instead of leaving? No, because Darkstar ruined that for them way back then and by that point, ThunderClan wouldn't have remembered and didn't want to give that land back. And the Code, hasty in the moment to cement Darkstar's word- was then feared by his Deputy at the time, Raincloud, for it could (and did) get abused by more horrible leaders further down the line. So TLDR; Darkstar of SkyClan is the worst SkyClan leader because he: - Gave up a valuable set of land against the complaints of his Clan and Deputy.
- Gave up a valuable set of land his descendants desperately needed back when the Two-Legs tore down their camp during Cloudstar's rule
- Implemented a horrible Code that was eventually abused in First, Third, and Current (7th) Arcs by their awful leaders in charge.
- Didn't even think of the consequences of the Code made or Land lost.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:09:09 GMT -5
So to get to my intro post and what the heck I was talking about. I think Darkstar of SkyClan (introduced in Code of The Clans) is the worst leader possible and most likely worst of SkyClan's. Darkstar was the one to introduce Code 13 "The word of the Clan leader is the Warrior Code." Of which many people don't like already. The Code is stupid and easily exploitable. BUT- What makes it worse is it was the indirect cause of SkyClan leaving the old Forest territory back then when Cloudstar was the past-current leader.To refresh you all- Darkstar made the code on the whim to help defend their awful decision to give ThunderClan a good size chunk of land. And when time passed, the Two-Legs moved in and chose SkyClan territory to build their new neighborhood. And when SkyClan needed a place to stay, they weren't welcome anywhere. And they had nowhere to go but somewhere far from the forest. But to think... what if they didn't give that good chunk of land to ThunderClan? Couldn't they go there instead of leaving?
No, because Darkstar ruined that for them way back then and by that point, ThunderClan wouldn't have remembered and didn't want to give that land back.
And the Code, hasty in the moment to cement Darkstar's word- was then feared by his Deputy at the time, Raincloud, for it could (and did) get abused by more horrible leaders further down the line. So TLDR; Darkstar of SkyClan is the worst SkyClan leader because he: - Gave up a valuable set of land against the complaints of his Clan and Deputy.
- Gave up a valuable set of land his descendants desperately needed back when the Two-Legs tore down their camp during Cloudstar's rule
- Implemented a horrible Code that was eventually abused in First, Third, and Current (7th) Arcs by their awful leaders in charge.
- Didn't even think of the consequences of the Code made or Land lost.
actually even worse than that. a brief battle was done over that land, woth thunderclans leader at the time declaring after their victory that “darkstars word still stands”. thunderclan beat back skyclan when they wanted their land back and claimed darkstars word justified it.
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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 19:10:09 GMT -5
pinestars addition to the code is actual trash. tigerstar scolding his clanmates for digging for scraps when they were literally starving to death was so, so stupid. the clans already have too much pride to function, now they have a code saying “if you starve, you starve, bitch” OOF JUST- OOF
Much talk of the ThunderClan leader to be like that when ShadowClan is casual to scraping to survive!
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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 19:11:34 GMT -5
So to get to my intro post and what the heck I was talking about. I think Darkstar of SkyClan (introduced in Code of The Clans) is the worst leader possible and most likely worst of SkyClan's. Darkstar was the one to introduce Code 13 "The word of the Clan leader is the Warrior Code." Of which many people don't like already. The Code is stupid and easily exploitable. BUT- What makes it worse is it was the indirect cause of SkyClan leaving the old Forest territory back then when Cloudstar was the past-current leader.To refresh you all- Darkstar made the code on the whim to help defend their awful decision to give ThunderClan a good size chunk of land. And when time passed, the Two-Legs moved in and chose SkyClan territory to build their new neighborhood. And when SkyClan needed a place to stay, they weren't welcome anywhere. And they had nowhere to go but somewhere far from the forest. But to think... what if they didn't give that good chunk of land to ThunderClan? Couldn't they go there instead of leaving?
No, because Darkstar ruined that for them way back then and by that point, ThunderClan wouldn't have remembered and didn't want to give that land back.
And the Code, hasty in the moment to cement Darkstar's word- was then feared by his Deputy at the time, Raincloud, for it could (and did) get abused by more horrible leaders further down the line. So TLDR; Darkstar of SkyClan is the worst SkyClan leader because he: - Gave up a valuable set of land against the complaints of his Clan and Deputy.
- Gave up a valuable set of land his descendants desperately needed back when the Two-Legs tore down their camp during Cloudstar's rule
- Implemented a horrible Code that was eventually abused in First, Third, and Current (7th) Arcs by their awful leaders in charge.
- Didn't even think of the consequences of the Code made or Land lost.
actually even worse than that. a brief battle was done over that land, woth thunderclans leader at the time declaring after their victory that “darkstars word still stands”. thunderclan beat back skyclan when they wanted their land back and claimed darkstars word justified it. Gwuwuaggagagggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! I hate that! I hate that so much! THAT I did not know and I hate it even more now!!! Why in the world didn't SkyClan drive out Darkstar at that point?????????
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 15, 2020 19:13:59 GMT -5
Cedarstar is solely responsible for everything bad that happens to Shadowclan in the series. He is the one who starts brutal and totally unjustified campaigns to exile Windclan, he's the one who promoted a reckless idiot like Raggedstar and led to a toxic line of corruption in choosing future deputies, he's the one who actually praised horrible ideas like the rat plan, and so on. From him you can draw a direct line to Raggedstar, who continued these failures except even worse, and then Brokenstar and the rest is of course history as Shadowclan's culture becomes nothing more than violence and strongmen for several generations, all due to Cedarstar's actions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:14:03 GMT -5
actually even worse than that. a brief battle was done over that land, woth thunderclans leader at the time declaring after their victory that “darkstars word still stands”. thunderclan beat back skyclan when they wanted their land back and claimed darkstars word justified it. Gwuwuaggagagggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! I hate that! I hate that so much! THAT I did not know and I hate it even more now!!! Why in the world didn't SkyClan drive out Darkstar at that point?????????
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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 19:23:15 GMT -5
Gwuwuaggagagggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! I hate that! I hate that so much! THAT I did not know and I hate it even more now!!! Why in the world didn't SkyClan drive out Darkstar at that point????????? I wish to destroy ThunderClan even more now.
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Post by Swampamus on Oct 15, 2020 19:25:16 GMT -5
Cedarstar is solely responsible for everything bad that happens to Shadowclan in the series. He is the one who starts brutal and totally unjustified campaigns to exile Windclan, he's the one who promoted a reckless idiot like Raggedstar and led to a toxic line of corruption in choosing future deputies, he's the one who actually praised horrible ideas like the rat plan, and so on. From him you can draw a direct line to Raggedstar, who continued these failures except even worse, and then Brokenstar and the rest is of course history as Shadowclan's culture becomes nothing more than violence and strongmen for several generations, all due to Cedarstar's actions. I completely forgot about Cedarstar's problems. ' w';;;; I got too caught up on Raggedstar and his blatant power imbalance on Yellowfang.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:26:34 GMT -5
Cedarstar is solely responsible for everything bad that happens to Shadowclan in the series. He is the one who starts brutal and totally unjustified campaigns to exile Windclan, he's the one who promoted a reckless idiot like Raggedstar and led to a toxic line of corruption in choosing future deputies, he's the one who actually praised horrible ideas like the rat plan, and so on. From him you can draw a direct line to Raggedstar, who continued these failures except even worse, and then Brokenstar and the rest is of course history as Shadowclan's culture becomes nothing more than violence and strongmen for several generations, all due to Cedarstar's actions. There's also the fact that he gave both a life to Brokenstar AND Tigerclaw.
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Post by fire on Oct 15, 2020 19:35:17 GMT -5
I don't remember Cedarstar being that bad when I read Yellowfang's Secret, but maybe I'm trippin
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:39:38 GMT -5
I don't remember Cedarstar being that bad when I read Yellowfang's Secret, but maybe I'm trippin cedarstar was portrayed in a much more favorable light in ys, likely due to it being from the pov of a shadowclan cat. hes pretty bad in books like tallstars revenge. also, as stated above, he gave a life to both brokenstar and tigerstar I
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:41:10 GMT -5
Didn't Cedarstar rip open Shrewclaw's mom (don't take my word for it)? Then Shrewclaw tried to avenge her but met the same fate. Yikes
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Post by fire on Oct 15, 2020 19:50:04 GMT -5
I don't remember Cedarstar being that bad when I read Yellowfang's Secret, but maybe I'm trippin cedarstar was portrayed in a much more favorable light in ys, likely due to it being from the pov of a shadowclan cat. hes pretty bad in books like tallstars revenge. also, as stated above, he gave a life to both brokenstar and tigerstar I Bad look for Cedarstar
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Post by vectoring34 on Oct 15, 2020 19:51:53 GMT -5
I don't remember Cedarstar being that bad when I read Yellowfang's Secret, but maybe I'm trippin As mentioned below, you see his dark side in Tallstar's Revenge. But even in Yellowfang's Secret, he seems like a fool. After Raggedpelt's plan to attack the rats fails so badly that many cats are badly wounded and some even died, Cedarstar actually praises his plan and gives him an apprentice as a reward. There was nothing wise or good about Raggedpelt in that moment, yet Cedarstar chose to reward bad behavior. It stuck out to me because this is exactly the same mistake you see Raggedpelt make when he promotes Brokentail. Cedarstar is made of failure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:08:04 GMT -5
Didn't Cedarstar rip open Shrewclaw's mom (don't take my word for it)? Then Shrewclaw tried to avenge her but met the same fate. Yikes It was Newtspeck who ultimately ended Shrewclaw. Also, wasn't it Stonetooth who killed Brackenwing? Not Cedarstar?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 15, 2020 20:08:59 GMT -5
I actually recently watched a video o the worst leaders, and it made me realized just how bad Stoneteller was apparently.
QuietRage makes some pretty good videos tbh, and they're usually well organized.
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Post by fire on Oct 15, 2020 20:10:50 GMT -5
I don't remember Cedarstar being that bad when I read Yellowfang's Secret, but maybe I'm trippin As mentioned below, you see his dark side in Tallstar's Revenge. But even in Yellowfang's Secret, he seems like a fool. After Raggedpelt's plan to attack the rats fails so badly that many cats are badly wounded and some even died, Cedarstar actually praises his plan and gives him an apprentice as a reward. There was nothing wise or good about Raggedpelt in that moment, yet Cedarstar chose to reward bad behavior. It stuck out to me because this is exactly the same mistake you see Raggedpelt make when he promotes Brokentail. Cedarstar is made of failure. When you say it like that, Cedarstar doesn't seem so cool. Maybe I didn't stop to think about how bad his actions were.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:11:17 GMT -5
Didn't Cedarstar rip open Shrewclaw's mom (don't take my word for it)? Then Shrewclaw tried to avenge her but met the same fate. Yikes It was Newtspeck who ultimately ended Shrewclaw. Also, wasn't it Stonetooth who killed Brackenwing? Not Cedarstar? It's super vague, there's no clear attacker
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:12:16 GMT -5
It was Newtspeck who ultimately ended Shrewclaw. Also, wasn't it Stonetooth who killed Brackenwing? Not Cedarstar? It's super vague, there's no clear attacker Oh, I always used to defend Cedarstar, because I thought Stonetooth was the one who killed Brackenwing. I still kind of like Cedarstar though, I know he's not a very nice guy, but I love his name and design.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:16:22 GMT -5
I had a thought about the original topic, what if Darkstar was so willing to give up SkyClan land, because he was the father of the kits?
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Oct 16, 2020 0:35:47 GMT -5
The worst character in the series is Star Flower. She has some of my least favorite quotes in the series. For example:
Star Flower, to Thunder. This is also the worst quote IMO.
Thunder is the very one who persuaded Clear Sky to let her into his Clan, and now she's here acting as if she can do whatever she wants. On every page I read about her, she comes across as entitled, manipulative, and smug. And how she instantly moves on to Thunder's father of all cats disgusts me more than anything in the series. I cannot describe how much I detest her. But this is only my opinion.
The worst arc in my opinion is AVoS, because it had such potential, only to kill a good villain in the 3rd book and have pointless love drama in the last. And have it all blow over because Finleap is having a "bad day." I like Finleap, but I didn't like how they did him like that. It has great characters, but some are better outside their PoV. For example, Violetshine and Alderheart. Alderheart's chapters were nice to read, but lacking in excitement. They were slightly boring compared to the chapters of Violet and Twig. However, Alderheart is not a boring character at all. He's quiet and determined, and unafraid to speak up for what's right, and I admire him for that. Violetshine's constant idolization of Needletail annoyed me. Violetshine is an important character, but to me, it seemed her chapters always seemed to bounce back to Needletail. I don't like Needletail, and I don't get how Violet did either. Needletail pressured and influenced her to do things that weren't right. And Violetshine even named her daughter after Needletail. Not cool. I prefer Violet as a side character.
The "leader's word is code" rule is bad and pointless. I don't think the authors could even come up with a good reason for this. All they had was a deputy speaking up about not wanting to give their territory away, the leader publicly insulting her and giving it away anyway, then adding a rule to the warrior code just to make sure, because why not? This rule is the worst.
Russetfur is one of the worst deputies, as is Tigerheart. Russetfur, when there is a rule that no one may neglect a kit in danger, stood there and watched Berrykit suffer. I cannot express my hatred at that moment I read it. I couldn't believe a cat would do that. And Tigerheart, when ShadowClan is in need of leadership desperately, runs away to be with Dovewing. I'm neutral on Dovewing, but I hate Tigerheart. But I feel other people describe Tigerheart better than I do, lol.
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