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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 17:17:19 GMT -5
They were both ShadowClan cats alive during AVOS, who both did bad things, and they both died saving someone else, who do you like more? Also, who do you think was more redeemable?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 17:25:09 GMT -5
i like needletail more, but i find juniperclaw more redeemable. needletail traumatized and emotionally abused violetshine, and helped the kin take over shadowclan, causing a lot of deaths. while juniperclaw did poison a cat, that cat lived, and it was clear that he wasnt doing it for a self-centered reason like needletail was and believed he was helping his clan and proving his loyalty to tigerstar II. him killing himself was rlly stupid tho, he should have lived to face the consequences of his actions.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 11, 2020 17:31:29 GMT -5
I'm going with Needletail. She was more interesting. Juniperclaw was always just... there, but I wish he hadn't died when he did.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Oct 11, 2020 21:31:43 GMT -5
They were both ShadowClan cats alive during AVOS, who both did bad things, and they both died saving someone else, who do you like more? Also, who do you think was more redeemable? I think Juniperclaw was more redeemable plus I like him more. Needletail blamed everyone else for things that weren't in her control. She blamed her leader and joined a cat who was clearly in the wrong. And even when she dies, she continues to blame other cats. I like Juniperclaw. He poisoned SkyClan, which was very wrong. But what @nettles said about him sums up what I think about him perfectly. He believed what he was doing was helping his Clan. Needletail, however...
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Post by Sky Frost on Oct 11, 2020 21:53:52 GMT -5
Needletail was always more interesting tbh. She did do a lot of bad things including messing up Violetshine's early life, but she realized her mistakes and sacrificed herself for Violetshine, which was better then Juniperclaw's death. He could've faced his consequences and earned the respect of his Clan back. But he did save Violetshine and her unborn kits so I'll give him credit for that.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 11, 2020 23:45:01 GMT -5
Needletail, but the fact that Juniperclaw died because of Shadow's idiocy annoyed me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 23:54:21 GMT -5
Needletail, but the fact that Juniperclaw died because of Shadow's idiocy annoyed me. if i recall correctly, juniper could have saved shadow, violet, and himself? however, he chose to drown in “atonement” (which is bs because facing consequences is far better atonement). he didnt die because of shadow, though shadows actions gave him the chance to off himself. he died by choice. still, what shadow did was monumentally stupid and dangerous, and its amazing that he wasnt killed, and juniper was the only casualty.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 12, 2020 0:00:19 GMT -5
Needletail, but the fact that Juniperclaw died because of Shadow's idiocy annoyed me. technically, juniper could have saved both shadow and himself. however, he chose to drown in “atonement” (which is bs because facing consequences is far better atonement). he didnt die because of shadow, though shadows actions gave him the chance to off himself. he died by choice. still, what shadow did was monumentally stupid and dangerous, and its amazing that he wasnt killed, and juniper was the only casualty. To be fair, Shadowkit only jumped in because of voices telling him to, which is already all kinds of concerning, but considering the supernatural had yet to fail him at this point in time and he was still, well, a kit, I'm really not surprised he listened. I'm just wondering if it'll be addressed in any of the future books.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 0:02:42 GMT -5
technically, juniper could have saved both shadow and himself. however, he chose to drown in “atonement” (which is bs because facing consequences is far better atonement). he didnt die because of shadow, though shadows actions gave him the chance to off himself. he died by choice. still, what shadow did was monumentally stupid and dangerous, and its amazing that he wasnt killed, and juniper was the only casualty. To be fair, Shadowkit only jumped in because of voices telling him to, which is already all kinds of concerning, but considering the supernatural had yet to fail him at this point in time and he was still, well, a kit, I'm really not surprised he listened. I'm just wondering if it'll be addressed in any of the future books. true enough. im not as hard on him about it as i would be with older characters since kits do stupid things. i suppose the blame would fall more on the warriors and his parents who failed to keep a better eye on him or just generally drill more sense into his head. plus, like i said, only death was juniper, who technically chose to die, so.... im genuinely surprised that plan worked tho lol. cant believe shadowkit has the power to cause world peace by attempting to drown himself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 0:18:11 GMT -5
Needletail of course!
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 12, 2020 0:39:38 GMT -5
Needletail, but the fact that Juniperclaw died because of Shadow's idiocy annoyed me. if i recall correctly, juniper could have saved shadow, violet, and himself? however, he chose to drown in “atonement” (which is bs because facing consequences is far better atonement). he didnt die because of shadow, though shadows actions gave him the chance to off himself. he died by choice. still, what shadow did was monumentally stupid and dangerous, and its amazing that he wasnt killed, and juniper was the only casualty. He didn't willingly drown himself, he chose to save Violet and Shadow as atonement, and died doing it, knowing he would die. With the way they were positioned, he had to use his body to boost both Shadow and Violet up to safety, there was no way Tree would reach him. By the time they turned back to try, he was only hanging on by only his claw tips, and eventually slid away, he only had enough strength left to at least see that Violet and Shadow were safe before his famous last words. If he hadn't jumped in to save them, Violet (A pregnant queen at the time) and Shadow would have both died instead. And it still annoys me, because if Shadowkit hadn't willingly put himself in danger in the first place, none of that would have happened. I don't think Juniperclaw was a bad cat at heart, and whole-heartedly regretted what he did to SkyClan, he didn't deserve to die in general. I also hated that Shadowkit felt proud for what he did, even Violetshine thought he had bees for brains, honestly wished they had reprimanded him more. Ironically, if he wasn't so gung ho naïve about listening to voices in his head, a lot of things in TBC could have been avoided.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 10:27:22 GMT -5
if i recall correctly, juniper could have saved shadow, violet, and himself? however, he chose to drown in “atonement” (which is bs because facing consequences is far better atonement). he didnt die because of shadow, though shadows actions gave him the chance to off himself. he died by choice. still, what shadow did was monumentally stupid and dangerous, and its amazing that he wasnt killed, and juniper was the only casualty. He didn't willingly drown himself, he chose to save Violet and Shadow as atonement, and died doing it, knowing he would die. With the way they were positioned, he had to use his body to boost both Shadow and Violet up to safety, there was no way Tree would reach him. By the time they turned back to try, he was only hanging on by only his claw tips, and eventually slid away, he only had enough strength left to at least see that Violet and Shadow were safe before his famous last words. If he hadn't jumped in to save them, Violet (A pregnant queen at the time) and Shadow would have both died instead. And it still annoys me, because if Shadowkit hadn't willingly put himself in danger in the first place, none of that would have happened. I don't think Juniperclaw was a bad cat at heart, and whole-heartedly regretted what he did to SkyClan, he didn't deserve to die in general. I also hated that Shadowkit felt proud for what he did, even Violetshine thought he had bees for brains, honestly wished they had reprimanded him more. Ironically, if he wasn't so gung ho naïve about listening to voices in his head, a lot of things in TBC could have been avoided. ah, okay, i had for some reason recalled him like, letting himself drown on purpose when he had a chance to be pulled from the water. my memory isnt great lol. like i said above, while shadowkit jumping in is technically understandable given he was young and had visions indicating he do so, him not feeling somber for the outcome was Not Great. its weird that he didnt even mourn juniper or feel guilty over it. also yeah i said earlier, i think juniper was redeemable, he believed he was helping his clan and wasnt some demented murderer. he should have lived to work on redeeming himself, its always more interesting anyways than characters who just die to be redeemed.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 12, 2020 20:26:24 GMT -5
Needletail I like more because at least she's more interesting and complex then Juniperclaw. As for their "redemptions," I didn't like either. I wished they'd lived to face all the consequences of their actions, and become better cats because of it.
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